• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia...

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Was Jesus schizophrenic? He was talking to an invisible person....

Matthew 4:1-10.

A very unusual incident, to be sure!
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
No, you're completely missing his intent.
And the additional quote I added was also his. Not mine.

To put it bluntly, Tomas Szasz was probably the number one critic of psychology, and in particular spoke against the overuse of drugs and over diagnosis of schizophrenia.
He believed that what was important was how people lived with their 'illnesses' (a term he wasn't fond of) and would have agreed with the points you made in relation to the OP (I believe...I'm obviously guessing somewhat on that).

The quote in the OP is sometimes used out of context...as it has been here...as if he was suggesting people who heard God were crazy.

Which is rubbish.
Looks as if somebody needs to write a book 'How to translate Szasz in to meaningful language'.
And 'No', I don't give him much notice......... the first title of his that I see is 'The Myth of Mental Illness' which of course he does not mean........ he doesn't communicate straight, imo.

But piling on as if Szasz was pro-psychology,
What? He is pro-psychology....... he just thinks that his ideas about treatment are best.

....and yoyu're telling me that I got him wrong..... sure..... anybody could get that guy wrong.


As for conversations about masks, I'll happily revisit whatever you like, but that has absolutely bugger all to do with this thread.
It was another example of mis-interpretation, only yours, so we're 1-1 at present.
Let's call it a draw.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Several religious traditions have "holy madmen"

Hi........ psychiatry has its nutters as well!

My late wife died in 1991. She suffered with the most severe and violent hysterical storms, usually triggered by little children singing. She could also mimic severe conditions so well that she fooled the medics many times.

The most exclusive psychiatric research facility in the UK (circa 1979- York clinic, Guys Hospital) studied her condition for many months. The staff were so odd that even the way they walked looked strange.

But her psycho-therapist was a sex criminal. He was eventually convicted of raping eight patients after putting them 'under'. It was believed that he raped scores and scores, there only being enough evidence for 8 cases. He was sentenced to 8 years back then, but today that would be a life sentence.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Looks as if somebody needs to write a book 'How to translate Szasz in to meaningful language'.
And 'No', I don't give him much notice......... the first title of his that I see is 'The Myth of Mental Illness' which of course he does not mean........ he doesn't communicate straight, imo.

He does mean it. As I said in my post, he didn't see mental illness as 'illness'. He felt both illness and disease were terms appropriate for physical health rather than mental. What would commonly be considered mental illnesses he saw as 'problems with living'.
Further, he believed psychologists could only ever help people deal with these problems via 'consensual contract' rather than coercion.

Finally, he felt it incorrect to see psychologists as the key means of assistance to people who had 'problems with living' since they could seek help from (in his words)
"family members, friends, clergymen, mental health professionals, physicians, drugs, religion, faith-healing, marriage, divorce and so on"

What? He is pro-psychology....... he just thinks that his ideas about treatment are best.

Of course he thinks his ideas are best, but he was absolutely not pro-psychology. I cannot say it any clearer.
He thought psychology wasn't science.

....and yoyu're telling me that I got him wrong..... sure..... anybody could get that guy wrong.

I don't know what to tell you. You responded to a quote by a man you knew nothing about. In that response you said he naturally had an agenda against religion, since he was an atheist. You said he was prejudiced.
You knew nothing about the context of the quote, and in fact he had a very low opinion of psychology, explicitly saying that other sources of assistance for problems with living were valid, including...explicitly...religion.

I think you might reflect on the irony that you called him prejudiced without knowing the least thing about him.


It was another example of mis-interpretation, only yours, so we're 1-1 at present.
Let's call it a draw.

And now you're playing pigeon chess.
I'm more than happy to discuss the mask thing in another thread, but you claiming 'victory' in that case is ridiculous. Besides which, what the hell is 'victory'?

I was initially merely pointing out here that you had Tomas Szasz backwards. But if you'd prefer to motor along in your ignorance on the issue, but still make comment on it, I stand corrected and will leave you be. I thought you'd prefer to know.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Thomas Szasz (a notable psychiatrist) famously said:

If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia...​

Question: Are there any exceptions to this rule? Can you claim God talks to you without being considered a schizophrenic? If so, how?

I think it's a matter of how many people believe you, which determines how society labels you. I think the difference between being written off as a schizophrenic and being considered a prophet is simply a matter of numbers. Televangelist crooks say stuff like "God wants me to raise a million dollars" - if I said that I'd be considered psychotic so why not them? Maybe because it's so obvious that it's a lie and that they are clearly liars rather than psychotics?

Perhaps the purpose of being able to perform miracles is to let the masses know you are of God rather than a psychotic? Would people have paid attention to Jesus if he could not perform miracles? Miracles were a big part of his ministry and I don't think it could have worked out without them...

I'm interested in this issue as I have been diagnosed as having schizophrenia, although I don't believe the entity who communicates with me is God, although I did used to...
In order to be diagnosed as having a mental illness, including schizophrenia, the symptoms must be causing dysfunction in your life.

Those who see visions or hear the voice of God but are not dysfunctional are not considered to have any sort of mental illness.

The criteria for schizophrenia in the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) is actually quite complicated and involves more than seeing or hearing things that others cannot see or hear.

The criteria are as follows:

  • The presence of 2 (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated), with at least 1 of them being (1), (2), or (3): (1) delusions, (2) hallucinations, (3) disorganized speech, (4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior, and (5) negative symptoms

  • For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, level of functioning in 1 or more major areas (eg, work, interpersonal relations, or self-care) is markedly below the level achieved before onset; when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, the expected level of interpersonal, academic or occupational functioning is not achieved

  • Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for a period of at least 6 months, which must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated); prodromal symptoms often precede the active phase, and residual symptoms may follow it, characterized by mild or subthreshold forms of hallucinations or delusions

  • Schizoaffective disorder and depressive or bipolar disorder with psychotic features have been ruled out because either (1) no major depressive, manic, or mixed episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms or (2) any mood episodes that have occurred during active-phase symptoms have been present for a minority of the total duration of the active and residual periods of the illness

  • The disturbance is not attributable to the physiologic effects of a substance (eg, a drug of abuse or a medication) or another medical condition

  • If there is a history of autism spectrum disorder or a communication disorder of childhood onset, the additional diagnosis of schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations, in addition to the other required symptoms or schizophrenia are also present for at least 1 month (or less if successfully treated)
In addition to the 5 symptom domain areas identified in the first diagnostic criterion, assessment of cognition, depression, and mania symptom domains is vital for distinguishing between schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.
 
Top