If God spoke directly to everyone...

[sun rise]

I guess you mean God spoke on Mt. Sinai. I do not know if that ever actually happened, but it is a nice story.

There's a literalist assumption that "spoke" was in a literal voice that could be heard.

Rumi said "There is a voice that does not use words. Listen."

 

[Left Coast]

We do choose if we are convinced by the evidence. You are not convinced by the evidence so you do not choose to believe. I am convinced by the evidence so I choose to believe. It is a conscious choice I made just like everything we do is a choice. I did not just suddenly decide one day to believe in God. I did not believe in God before I became a Baha'i because I had no reason to believe that God existed.

If you're convinced by the evidence, how can you not believe? That's what it means to believe, to be convinced. And "everything we do" isn't a choice, either. My heart beating isn't a choice, it just happens. My beliefs are similar - I don't pick them, they just happen, based on the evidence I've seen and what I've been convinced is true. You just said it - you didnt wake up and decide to believe in a god one day. You were presented with evidence which honestly convinced you that a god exists: that's what belief is.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why assume that “everyone” wants to hear from God? There have to be some people who would not want to hear from God. God is All-Knowing so God knows that. God wants belief to be a choice and that might be one reason God does not speak directly to everyone.

However, that is not the main reason why God does not speak directly to everyone, because hypothetically speaking, even if God spoke directly to everyone, people could still choose not to listen or hear.

Imo, the main reasons why God does not speak directly to everyone are as follows:

1. God wants us to seek Him out and use our innate intelligence to decide if we have found Him. God rewards true seekers.
2. God does not want to make belief easy to acquire. God wants us to exert an earnest effort in order to believe.
3. God wants us to have faith that He exists without absolute proof. Those who have faith will get the proof they need.
4. Last but not least, nobody except God’s Messengers can comprehend God. Messengers act as mediators between God and humans, communicating what we would otherwise be unable to understand.

I can find no reason at all to suppose any of your "reasons" have any basis in reality. God has the ultimate "bully pulpit," if he chooses to use it. Presidents, prime ministers, despots and tyrants all have their own bully pulpits -- they can take over the television and radio channels and deliver their message to everybody. And they do it, sometimes. Sure, some people don't listen, and some don't agree, but what does that have to do with the fact that the message can be delivered to, for all practical purposes, everybody?

Why would you imagine "God wants us to seek him out?" For goodness sake, why would you even suspect that some early human, eating a few locusts and roots on the plains of Africa, would even suppose that there's "somebody to look for?" What hints does he have, as his first 2 children die before they reach the age of 2 days, that such a being exists? What would make them even suspect it?

Whatever God wants about the making "belief easy to acquire" is moot, because we humans are capable of believing the most absurd crud possible -- and we do it all the time.

What is the benefit of "faith without proof?" What do you get from that? What comes of the "faith that the rains will come" if the rains don't, and you don't have anything stockpiled to feed you for the year? That -- any cretin could see -- is a total failure founded in faith. And humans, to their credit, figured that out long ago, and learned how to prepare for the times when things don't happen as they usually do.

And I think it is axiomatically idiotic to suppose that there are some humans -- humans like you, and like me, who live, eat, **** and die -- who have some special understanding of "God" that is not available to the rest of us. You have quantitatively zero evidence for any such thing, except for the claims of those who -- ironically -- did live, eat, **** and die, often unpleasantly. And who all disagreed with one another on their "understanding of God," which is proof positive to any thinking person that, tragically, they lacked any such understanding at all.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why assume that “everyone” wants to hear from God?

Why assume everyone wants to be born, to breathe, to have their heart beat constantly?

We don't always get what we want.

If, as theists such as yourself are always claiming, recognizing god is All Important-- indeed the Most Important Thing Ever, in All History?

Then? It behooves this god thing to make certain everyone knows about it or not-- this does not automatically mean everyone will fall down and worship this god-beast-- not even a little-- heck, Satan was 100% certain god existed (according to the legend) but chose not to worship or even follow this god-beast. (making anyone watching, ask: What did Satan know about god, that we do not? Satan surely knew he could not win. Was he insane? That means god made an insane Being. Or was Satan trying to convey a message, by refusing to bow down-- even though he knew such a refusal was futile.... )

Nevermindthat. IF it is IMPORTANT? THEN it is God's Ultimate Responsibility to Make Himself Known-- your "want" does not matter.

Just like Gravity-- nobody can defy gravity. There is no such thing as Anti-gravity or negative gravity.

So no-- your entire rant falls flat on it's face.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God is speaking to everyone, it just that most of them aren't listening or don't want to listen.

100% wrong. How nice, that you have Magical Total Telepathy, and can Know Everyone's Mind like this...!

That must be .... AMAZING! How do you even sleep, hearing 8 billion thoughts like that?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I think we do choose. Why don't you think we choose?

Do you choose to accept the effects of Gravity? No? Well you can flap your arms all you like-- gravity WILL pull you towards the center of the planet, whether you want it to or not.

You do not get to choose gravity.

 

[rational experiences]

There are people who think God is speaking to them vocally. Unless it's a sadguru, Man-God, or the Avatar speaking, they're misguided or wrong. "Hearing voices" is part of a clinical diagnosis.

And it is the only reasonable self advice that a pre living spiritual mind, who basis self choices upon choice, to want to be spiritual with a non heard voice, apply that basis. And it involves pre human adult self experience.

A human says that our first 2 human being parents were spiritually advised that having human sex was wrong. And a rational human today looking back at human history would agree. For so much inhumane pain and suffering has been endured by little innocent babies who did not ask to be born, but are given or inherit suffering or illegal inhumane life attack.

So it is easy to agree with that human adult aware teaching.

I only heard voices, after being mind notified in my spiritual psyche that I was hearing not learnt, nor researched scientific advice. As a spiritual human.

Then when I gained a near self combustion, which include excruciating brain chemical burning, I realized what humans had suffered in their ancient science attacks.

And then heard speaking voices, which still owned very high informative spiritual advice.

Which caused me to contemplate, how AI being a voice recorded male science known atmospheric condition....to own recording and its transmissions could be spiritual. Which is the basis that first male humanity, a very long time were far more spiritual in living life self manifested presence than what we are today...living irradiated converted several times in caused UFO radiation fall out attacks.

Therefore I knew who humans who heard voice without wanting to hear it must have felt in their experience.....rather than irrationalise it evilly as a medical concept….seeing medical advice is only ever applied or gained/inferred after the fact of self harm.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God is speaking to everyone, it just that most of them aren't listening or don't want to listen.

Have you ever considered the possibility that, if -- as you just said -- "God is speaking to everyone," it might be you that doesn't hear correctly?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If you were born on earth you and God would need a born prophet to intermediate.

Why? Why is your concept of god so weak, that it has to use Special Favorites like that?

Which is both unfair, and immoral....

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why? Why is your concept of god so weak, that it has to use Special Favorites like that?

Which is both unfair, and immoral....

And -- as history shows definitively -- 100% prone to error. Doesn't seem a particularly bright thing for an omniscient god to be doing, in my opinion.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Why? Why is your concept of god so weak, that it has to use Special Favorites like that?

Which is both unfair, and immoral....

There is a metaphysical barrier between God and man.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God wants us to seek Him out and use our innate intelligence to decide if we have found Him. God rewards true seekers.

This is a particular favourite of mine, because it makes so very little sense.

Imagine, there's a man and his wife, and they do what comes naturally, and -- surprise! -- they create a child. Well, obviously, their first instinct would be to hide and see if that newly created infant can find them, and know that they're it's parents. Then, as a reward to this "true seeker" mom will offer a nipple and dad will start saving for college.

Rubbish!

 

[Salvador]

Why assume that “everyone” wants to hear from God? There have to be some people who would not want to hear from God. God is All-Knowing so God knows that. God wants belief to be a choice and that might be one reason God does not speak directly to everyone.

However, that is not the main reason why God does not speak directly to everyone, because hypothetically speaking, even if God spoke directly to everyone, people could still choose not to listen or hear.

Imo, the main reasons why God does not speak directly to everyone are as follows:

1. God wants us to seek Him out and use our innate intelligence to decide if we have found Him. God rewards true seekers.
2. God does not want to make belief easy to acquire. God wants us to exert an earnest effort in order to believe.
3. God wants us to have faith that He exists without absolute proof. Those who have faith will get the proof they need.
4. Last but not least, nobody except God’s Messengers can comprehend God. Messengers act as mediators between God and humans, communicating what we would otherwise be unable to understand.

Please allow me to postulate our Genetic Code's Creator conveying the numeric message of "037" to me, Vladimir shCherbak, Maxim A. Makukov , Natasa Misic, Artem Novozhilov, , Eugene Koonin, Chris Davis, and Craig Paardekooper who use base-ten math and understand how each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37. Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of "037" gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us by our genetic code's Creator.

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov.Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code Icarus, 2013 February

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There is a metaphysical barrier between God and man.

Who put it there? Again-- you keep describing a weak and quite inept god, here...

 

[MonkeyFire]

Who put it there? Again-- you keep describing a weak and quite inept god, here...

Maybe God is Adam then and suffers minimally.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Maybe God is Adam then and suffers minimally.

What? That makes no sense... seriously.

 

[Trailblazer]

There's a literalist assumption that "spoke" was in a literal voice that could be heard.

Rumi said "There is a voice that does not use words. Listen."

I did not mean speak as in a literal voice that could be heard. I meant speak in a manner that one KNOWS it is God and nobody else. That is how God spoke to all the Messengers and that is why they all had so much confidence.

 

[MonkeyFire]

What? That makes no sense... seriously.

The buddha says all things suffer.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you're convinced by the evidence, how can you not believe? That's what it means to believe, to be convinced.

One could be convinced by the evidence and reject that evidence IF they did not want to believe. that is hypothetically possible although I do not think it is very common.

I know that is possible because I did it for decades. I had been convinced by the evidence but then I chose to turn away from God. However, in my case I still believed that God existed and I had a strong belief in Baha'u'llah, so eventually I came back.

And "everything we do" isn't a choice, either. My heart beating isn't a choice, it just happens.

But you are not doing that, that is a natural process of your body.

My beliefs are similar - I don't pick them, they just happen, based on the evidence I've seen and what I've been convinced is true. You just said it - you didnt wake up and decide to believe in a god one day. You were presented with evidence which honestly convinced you that a god exists: that's what belief is.

That is what you said and I agree, what people believe is based upon the evidence, or more accurately, it is based upon what they see as evidence. In other words, there might be evidence but they do not see it AS evidence. Others who DO see it as evidence believe.

 

[Left Coast]

One could be convinced by the evidence and reject that evidence IF they did not want to believe. that is hypothetically possible although I do not think it is very common.

I know that is possible because I did it for decades. I had been convinced by the evidence but then I chose to turn away from God. However, in my case I still believed that God existed and I had a strong belief in Baha'u'llah, so eventually I came back.

So, your own story seems to contradict what you're saying. You were convinced - you believed - despite "turning away" in some outward or formal sense. Basically it sounds like you were lying to yourself despite knowing what you truly believed deep down.

If you are truly convinced of something, you can't genuinely not believe it - the terms are synonymous.

But you are not doing that, that is a natural process of your body.

I guess that depends on your definition of "me."

That is what you said and I agree, what people believe is based upon the evidence, or more accurately, it is based upon what they see as evidence. In other words, there might be evidence but they do not see it AS evidence. Others who DO see it as evidence believe.

Right. And that belief is not a choice. If you are convinced the evidence shows that x is true, you definitionally already believe in x.