If God spoke directly to everyone...

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

No, that is not what I said. I said it is not the kind of evidence that you want, but maybe I am wrong, because I am basing that comment upon all the atheists I have been posting to day and night, night and day, for seven years.

Trust me I want to believe in your god, but he yet to provide sufficient evidence to convince me too, yet according to what your saying he won't provide the evidence. Which is just illogical and any true all knowing god would know that.

That is a good question. That is where the homework comes in. There is a lot of homework to do in order to determine that they were telling the truth.

Care to share that homework?

 

[Trailblazer]

Trust me I want to believe in your god, but he yet to provide sufficient evidence to convince me too, yet according to what your saying he won't provide the evidence. Which is just illogical and any true all knowing god would know that.

Please let me explain what is illogical. What is illogical is for humans to put demands upon an Almighty God, ordering Him to provide evidence that suits their needs. Do you think that God should provide a different kind of evidence for everyone just because they want it?

One thing that is important to understand about God is that God does not want to convince you, God wants you to become convinced by doing your own homework.

Care to share that homework?

That is years worth of homework. I don't think it will fit in a post, but if you have specific questions I can answer those.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Please let me explain what is illogical. What is illogical is for humans to put demands upon an Almighty God, ordering Him to provide evidence that suits their needs. Do you think that God should provide a different kind of evidence for everyone just because they want it?

One thing that is important to understand about God is that God does not want to convince you, God wants you to become convinced by doing your own homework.

I'm sorry, but the absurdness of your attempt to rationalize your god's excuses for not providing evidence is quite shocking. I'm pretty sure if was using the same standards as you god and withholding you future welling being based off of that you would be calling it bull**** as well.

That is years worth of homework. I don't think it will fit in a post, but if you have specific questions I can answer those.

How did you differentiate the validity of other religious messengers with your own?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry, but the absurdness of your attempt to rationalize your god's excuses for not providing evidence is quite shocking. I'm pretty sure if was using the same standards as you god and withholding you future welling being based off of that you would be calling it bull**** as well.

It is completely illogical to say that an infallible God needs excuses since an infallible God cannot make any mistakes.

God DOES provide evidence, and it is the same evidence for everyone. God does not owe anyone *a specific kind* of evidence, because God is not a short order cook. People can accept or reject the evidence God provides; it does not matter to God because God does not need to be believed in. People thus only hurt themselves when they reject the evidence God provides.

How did you differentiate the validity of other religious messengers with your own?

All of the Messengers of God come from one God and they are all valid but each Messenger has His own dispensation that applies to a particular period of history. That is called Progressive Revelation.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

It is completely illogical to say that an infallible God needs excuses since an infallible God cannot make any mistakes.

God DOES provide evidence, and it is the same evidence for everyone. God does not owe anyone *a specific kind* of evidence, because God is not a short order cook. People can accept or reject the evidence God provides; it does not matter to God because God does not need to be believed in. People thus only hurt themselves when they reject the evidence God provides.

We been going in circles with this lol and I'm going to drop it since I no longer have respect for your position.

All of the Messengers of God come from one God and they are all valid but each Messenger has His own dispensation that applies to a particular period of history. That is called Progressive Revelation.

Interesting theory, but it just doesn't make sense. I see it as more of way in attempt to bypass all the different religions so the one wouldn't have to use the same logical reasoning to disprove one religion on their own.

 

[Trailblazer]

We been going in circles with this lol and I'm going to drop it since I no longer have respect for your position.

Okay.

Interesting theory, but it just doesn't make sense. I see it as more of way in attempt to bypass all the different religions so the one wouldn't have to use the same logical reasoning to disprove one religion on their own.

It is the only theology that makes sense to me, but we all think differently. It make no sense to me that ancient religions still have utility in the modern age. Whereas their spiritual teachings are the same in all religions since they are eternal, the rest of what was revealed in the older religions was revealed for another age in history. Think about applying the OT laws in this age and then maybe you will understand... Animal sacrifices, putting homosexuals to death, and slavery are not for this age.

I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe that is why Jesus had to die on the cross, but I do believe that the teachings of Jesus and what Jesus did on the cross shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things and changed the world. So that has been done and it is not what we need in this age, because it has already been done. That is how I view it.

Time marches on and the world and humanity change dramatically over time, so the needs of humanity change. That is why God sends new Messengers who reveal new religions in every age. From my perspective, those who cling to older religions stuck in a kind of time warp. Of course I see it that way because I believe in a newer religion, I would not expect others to see it the way I do unless they believed in my religion and understood what it teaches.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

It is the only theology that makes sense to me, but we all think differently. It make no sense to me that ancient religions still have utility in the modern age. Whereas their spiritual teachings are the same in all religions since they are eternal, the rest of what was revealed in the older religions was revealed for another age in history. Think about applying the OT laws in this age and then maybe you will understand... Animal sacrifices, putting homosexuals to death, and slavery are not for this age.

Are you sure your statement is correct? Because if we look at what religion does in politics today you see them trying to restrict the rights of certain individuals. I find that the more religion is applied to us the more it tries to make us go backwards.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you sure your statement is correct? Because if we look at what religion does in politics today you see them trying to restrict the rights of certain individuals. I find that the more religion is applied to us the more it tries to make us go backwards.

"I find that the more religion is applied to us the more it tries to make us go backwards."
That is exactly what I have been trying to tell you. Obviously older religions are going to make us go backwards.

I just edited my post while you were responding to this so you might want to read the last two paragraphs I added to it, especially about being stuck in a time warp.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

"I find that the more religion is applied to us the more it tries to make us go backwards."
That is exactly what I have been trying to tell you. Obviously older religions are going to make us go backwards.

I just edited my post while you were responding to this so you might want to read the last two paragraphs I added to it, especially about being stuck in a time warp.

I read your edits.

I suggest you read more Christian doctrine because not many Christians don't believe that Jesus died for our sins.

You still need to provide evidence that those messengers were from God. Your Progressive theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, because an all knowing God wouldn't create two religions that say there is no other true religion i.e. Christianity and Islam. Especially the many branches of Christianity. Especially when the more logical approach is that these are not messengers from God, but men creating religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

I read your edits.

I suggest you read more Christian doctrine because not many Christians don't believe that Jesus died for our sins.

Why do you think it matters what Christian doctrines say? I hope you realize that those doctrines are man-made and they are based upon men’s interpretation of scriptures and based upon decisions that were made at councils such as Nicaea. They do not correlate with what Jesus taught and that is why the early Christians had completely different beliefs.

I do not believe that what was depicted in the story of Adam and Eve ever literally happened; I believe it was a story, a metaphor. I do not believe there was ever any such thing as original sin. Jews and Muslims do not believe in original sin either and they are reading the same scriptures. It is only Christians who believe in it and Imo it was a doctrine that was created so they would have a need to have Jesus die on the cross and save humanity and that way Christianity can claim supremacy over all the other religions. Jesus did talk about saving us from sin, but that is because we all sin during the course of our lives, not because we were born in sin.

Baha’u’llah wrote that Jesus sanctified the soul of the sinner because the cross sacrifice and His teachings are what helped us not to sin. Now Baha’u’llah has revealed teachings that accomplish that same purpose, these are the spiritual teachings that all religions share in common. What Baha’u’llah did was revitalize the spiritual teachings of past religions, he renewed them, because over time many people tend to lose sight of the spiritual teachings and religion becomes nothing more than a form.

You still need to provide evidence that those messengers were from God. Your Progressive theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, because an all knowing God wouldn't create two religions that say there is no other true religion i.e. Christianity and Islam. Especially the many branches of Christianity. Especially when the more logical approach is that these are not messengers from God, but men creating religion.

The All-Knowing God did not create two religions that say there is no other true religion. It would not even make sense for God to do that. Think about it. If Christianity is the only true religion that would mean that 67% of the people in the world are worshiping a false religion, and if Islam is the only true religion that would mean that 78% of people in the world are worshiping a false religion. What kind of All-Loving and All-Wise God would allow that? What I believe is that both those religions are true religions but their social teachings and laws and their essential messages are not pertinent to this new age. That is why God sent Baha’u’llah, a new Messenger with a new message and new social teachings and laws.

Religious believers believe that their religion is the only true religion because they have not really looked at the religions that were revealed after their religion, since they are so certain they are right and the others are wrong.

You need to separate what religious believers believe from what was actually revealed in their scriptures, because what they believe is based upon their interpretation of their scriptures, and that is not necessarily correct. Logically speaking, if only one interpretation was correct there would be no disagreements between believers who share the same religion. Just think about how many differences there are between Christians, yet they are all reading the same Bible.

Speaking of interpretations, in the NT Jesus said He is “the way the truth and the life” and nobody could come to the Father but by Him because that was true for the Dispensation of Jesus; but Jesus never said that He was the “only way” for all of time, Christians just assumed that. Indeed, Jesus said that there were many things He had to say but the people back in those days could not bear them; and in those same verses Jesus promised to send the Spirit of truth who would reveal all truth, so that indicated that more would be revealed by God through the Holy Spirit in the future. Christians believe that the Spirit of truth was the Holy Spirit that was sent at Pentecost, and that all truth was revealed back then, but Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Spirit of truth who brought more truth. Obviously both beliefs cannot be true so people have to choose which one to believe, or whether to believe either one of them.

The scriptures of Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not say they are the last religion that will ever be revealed for all time. In fact, in all of their scriptures there are verses that predict a Messiah who will come to fulfill their prophecies. Of course they are all still waiting for that Messiah and they all have different conceptions of what He will be like and what He will do, based upon how they interpret their scriptures. Christians believe it will be the return of the same Jesus.

What all these Abrahamic religions have in common is that they believe the Messiah will restore and glorify their religions because they are all dead set on believing that their religion is the only true religion. They cannot even imagine that God would reveal a new religion because of course that would mean they would have to relinquish their older religions. From a psychological standpoint, they are attached to their religious traditions that they have always believed are true, most believers having been raised in them.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah fulfilled all the prophecies of past religions and that He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Of course, this is a bold claim that Baha’u’llah made and it is not to be taken lightly, but if it is true it is the greatest event in human history.

Baha’is believe that there is only one eternal religion of God which is revealed in stages throughout human history, so the Baha’i Faith is like the latest chapter in the Book of God. We believe that all the previous chapters were true and they were all leading up to this chapter. However, we do not believe that the Baha’i Faith is the final chapter, but rather that there will be many more religions revealed in the future, throughout all of human history.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Why do you think it matters what Christian doctrines say? I hope you realize that those doctrines are man-made and they are based upon men’s interpretation of scriptures and based upon decisions that were made at councils such as Nicaea. They do not correlate with what Jesus taught and that is why the early Christians had completely different beliefs.

I do not believe that what was depicted in the story of Adam and Eve ever literally happened; I believe it was a story, a metaphor. I do not believe there was ever any such thing as original sin. Jews and Muslims do not believe in original sin either and they are reading the same scriptures. It is only Christians who believe in it and Imo it was a doctrine that was created so they would have a need to have Jesus die on the cross and save humanity and that way Christianity can claim supremacy over all the other religions. Jesus did talk about saving us from sin, but that is because we all sin during the course of our lives, not because we were born in sin.

Baha’u’llah wrote that Jesus sanctified the soul of the sinner because the cross sacrifice and His teachings are what helped us not to sin. Now Baha’u’llah has revealed teachings that accomplish that same purpose, these are the spiritual teachings that all religions share in common. What Baha’u’llah did was revitalize the spiritual teachings of past religions, he renewed them, because over time many people tend to lose sight of the spiritual teachings and religion becomes nothing more than a form.

The All-Knowing God did not create two religions that say there is no other true religion. It would not even make sense for God to do that. Think about it. If Christianity is the only true religion that would mean that 67% of the people in the world are worshiping a false religion, and if Islam is the only true religion that would mean that 78% of people in the world are worshiping a false religion. What kind of All-Loving and All-Wise God would allow that? What I believe is that both those religions are true religions but their social teachings and laws and their essential messages are not pertinent to this new age. That is why God sent Baha’u’llah, a new Messenger with a new message and new social teachings and laws.

Religious believers believe that their religion is the only true religion because they have not really looked at the religions that were revealed after their religion, since they are so certain they are right and the others are wrong.

You need to separate what religious believers believe from what was actually revealed in their scriptures, because what they believe is based upon their interpretation of their scriptures, and that is not necessarily correct. Logically speaking, if only one interpretation was correct there would be no disagreements between believers who share the same religion. Just think about how many differences there are between Christians, yet they are all reading the same Bible.

Speaking of interpretations, in the NT Jesus said He is “the way the truth and the life” and nobody could come to the Father but by Him because that was true for the Dispensation of Jesus; but Jesus never said that He was the “only way” for all of time, Christians just assumed that. Indeed, Jesus said that there were many things He had to say but the people back in those days could not bear them; and in those same verses Jesus promised to send the Spirit of truth who would reveal all truth, so that indicated that more would be revealed by God through the Holy Spirit in the future. Christians believe that the Spirit of truth was the Holy Spirit that was sent at Pentecost, and that all truth was revealed back then, but Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Spirit of truth who brought more truth. Obviously both beliefs cannot be true so people have to choose which one to believe, or whether to believe either one of them.

The scriptures of Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not say they are the last religion that will ever be revealed for all time. In fact, in all of their scriptures there are verses that predict a Messiah who will come to fulfill their prophecies. Of course they are all still waiting for that Messiah and they all have different conceptions of what He will be like and what He will do, based upon how they interpret their scriptures. Christians believe it will be the return of the same Jesus.

What all these Abrahamic religions have in common is that they believe the Messiah will restore and glorify their religions because they are all dead set on believing that their religion is the only true religion. They cannot even imagine that God would reveal a new religion because of course that would mean they would have to relinquish their older religions. From a psychological standpoint, they are attached to their religious traditions that they have always believed are true, most believers having been raised in them.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah fulfilled all the prophecies of past religions and that He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Of course, this is a bold claim that Baha’u’llah made and it is not to be taken lightly, but if it is true it is the greatest event in human history.

Baha’is believe that there is only one eternal religion of God which is revealed in stages throughout human history, so the Baha’i Faith is like the latest chapter in the Book of God. We believe that all the previous chapters were true and they were all leading up to this chapter. However, we do not believe that the Baha’i Faith is the final chapter, but rather that there will be many more religions revealed in the future, throughout all of human history.

First I think you should really look at the Christian doctrine so you can understand it better and realize why your beliefs won't match up with them, but that's a different conversation and I'm sorry for bringing it up.

Second I like you long response unfortunately my response won't be as long, but I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. It seems to me your doing the same thing that you claim that Christians and other do. Your interpreting the scriptures into the way you want to see them and that fine. I don't care about that. I want validity into why these are true.

 

[Trailblazer]

First I think you should really look at the Christian doctrine so you can understand it better and realize why your beliefs won't match up with them, but that's a different conversation and I'm sorry for bringing it up.

I do not expect my beliefs to match up with Christian doctrine because I do not believe the Christian doctrines are true.

Second I like you long response unfortunately my response won't be as long, but I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. It seems to me your doing the same thing that you claim that Christians and other do. Your interpreting the scriptures into the way you want to see them and that fine. I don't care about that. I want validity into why these are true.

Everyone has to interpret scriptures as they read them because they do not interpret themselves. We read them and assign meanings to them. It is not the way I want to see them, it is according to what my religion teaches.

What would you consider validity into why my interpretation is true?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Everyone has to interpret scriptures as they read them because they do not interpret themselves. We read them and assign meanings to them. It is not the way I want to see them, it is according to what my religion teaches.

What would you consider validity into why my interpretation is true?

Thats a good question and hard to answer because it hasn't happen yet, but for the sake of argument I would like evidence of the supernatural claims in the scripture that you use first. If you could do that then perhaps we could discuss more.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thats a good question and hard to answer because it hasn't happen yet, but for the sake of argument I would like evidence of the supernatural claims in the scripture that you use first. If you could do that then perhaps we could discuss more.

I do not know what you mean by "supernatural claims."

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I do not know what you mean by "supernatural claims."

Do you not understand the word supernatural or do you need me to provide you an example?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you not understand the word supernatural or do you need me to provide you an example?

I know the word supernatural, but what claims are you referring to?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Why assume that “everyone” wants to hear from God? There have to be some people who would not want to hear from God. God is All-Knowing so God knows that. God wants belief to be a choice and that might be one reason God does not speak directly to everyone.

However, that is not the main reason why God does not speak directly to everyone, because hypothetically speaking, even if God spoke directly to everyone, people could still choose not to listen or hear.

Imo, the main reasons why God does not speak directly to everyone are as follows:

1. God wants us to seek Him out and use our innate intelligence to decide if we have found Him. God rewards true seekers.
2. God does not want to make belief easy to acquire. God wants us to exert an earnest effort in order to believe.
3. God wants us to have faith that He exists without absolute proof. Those who have faith will get the proof they need.
4. Last but not least, nobody except God’s Messengers can comprehend God. Messengers act as mediators between God and humans, communicating what we would otherwise be unable to understand.

Hi Trailblazer!

All very good points.

However you forgot a very important reason God does not communicate to everyone directly, that is because of all the stigmas and taboos of society and self serving religions breaks down any direct communicating. As being told they're crazy, it's impossible, loony, or directly forbidden by religions makes people shut down their connection to their soul and its ability to communicate directly with God. It's an integral part of every soul.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi Trailblazer!

All very good points.

However you forgot a very important reason God does not communicate to everyone directly, that is because of all the stigmas and taboos of society and self serving religions breaks down any direct communicating. As being told they're crazy, it's impossible, loony, or directly forbidden by religions makes people shut down their connection to their soul and its ability to communicate directly with God. It's an integral part of every soul.

Anyone can communicate directly to God in prayer, but God is forever hidden from us.
Not even Jesus 'saw God' ... He only heard God's Voice speak through the Holy Spirit.
Only God's chosen Messengers can hear God's Voice, Imo.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Anyone can communicate directly to God in prayer, but God is forever hidden from us.
Not even Jesus 'saw God' ... He only heard God's Voice speak through the Holy Spirit.
Only God's chosen Messengers can hear God's Voice, Imo.

We've had a go-round on this the last time I posted here some months ago.

You cannot blindly believe everything, or really much of anything, about religions/mythologies written down by man.

But your book of beliefs is wrong on this point. I know for a fact that ALL souls have a direct connection to The God, as I have been using mine my whole life. It's not my fault that so many people are spiritually broken because they blindly believe their respective man made religions/mythologies and block themselves from ever using their own soul's direct connection to The God.

And never have I claimed to have "seen" God. For God is purely spiritual in nature. My soul has MET God several times, which is a purely spiritual experience that is impossible to describe.

 

[Ancient Soul]

It's not different: We have proof of how gravity works.

What do YOU have, that demonstrates god?

Anything? Anything at all? No?

What do YOU have that disproves the existence of God?