If god is real should he really be worshiped?

[bluegoo300]

I believe the title speaks for itself. If you look at Genesis 1 you find a lot of vile stuff there including mass murder, inbreeding, adultery, and much more. If god is so great why would he kill off all of earth population in one flood save only Noah’s family? Why would he have a man go to a mountain a kill his son only to test his faith? why would he put man and woman in a paradise garden and judge them on good and evil when they die when they have no clue what good and evil were until they eat the forbidden fruit. And why o why would he let a man who worships him pawn off his wife as his sister and allow her to get "violated" by men she do's not know. If you ask me is this god a thing we should worship or despise.

 

[Riverwolf]

How well are you versed in comparative mythology?

 

[bluegoo300]

i would say im more versed them many but still can learn alot.

 

[Riverwolf]

Good. We always have more to learn. Heck, that's the very job of the experts we always cite for information: learn more.

Both this and your other thread remind me very much of my initial reaction to first reading the Bible after I graduated high school. It's an understandable reaction, shared by many.

One realization that made me realize that there's actually far more than meets the eye is the fact that the Bible isn't actually a single book: it's a collection of Jewish and early Christian literature in what might be thought of as a "best of" compilation. And even within the individual books, there's question of additions, subtractions, and interpolations. As a result, I now regard each story separately from the others.

For example, the whole of Genesis Chapter 1, and then the first 3 (or 4, it's a bit unclear) verses of Chapter 2 are an entirely different story, likely from an entirely different author, than the story of Adam and Eve. The first Creation account is likely liturgical, while the Adam and Eve story strikes me as akin to a folktale. Furthermore, it's one of the deepest stories I've ever seen, with so many ways of looking at it that whatever the original storytellers may have had in mind is pretty irrelevant. Puberty, initiation, the agricultural revolution, awakening...

Plus, I've since read Jewish commentaries on the Torah, and thus have a greater appreciation of these stories, and their place in our cultural mythology.

As for the "horrible acts", those are common in mythology, and among worshiped Gods. My own King, Woden, is a bit of a prick himself. I still worship him, because I believe the Gods are, well, beyond good and evil. Morality is a human matter, not for the Gods. Volcanoes are highly destructive, capable of laying entire civilizations to complete ruin in a single day and night. But we still respect them; in any case, a volcanic eruption brings about death AND renewed life. Mt. St. Helens was greener than ever just a few years after it blew.

 

[George-ananda]

I believe the title speaks for itself. If you look at Genesis 1 you find a lot of vile stuff there including mass murder, inbreeding, adultery, and much more. If god is so great why would he kill off all of earth population in one flood save only Noah’s family? Why would he have a man go to a mountain a kill his son only to test his faith? why would he put man and woman in a paradise garden and judge them on good and evil when they die when they have no clue what good and evil were until they eat the forbidden fruit. And why o why would he let a man who worships him pawn off his wife as his sister and allow her to get "violated" by men she do's not know. If you ask me is this god a thing we should worship or despise.

Not too many people I talk to today are that interested in all the old testament stories. It seems like atheists are more interested in these stories to mock believers.

 

[bluegoo300]

Your post made me very happy sir it’s hard to find someone in this world that is as open minded as you. i guess i have one question thou if god has no morality is it wise to worship "him". To explain why should you or me honor something that thinks us nothing more that "pawns" something that can be thrown away and replaced by something bigger and better. Why should we give him the satisfaction while we are nothing to him yet he is everything to us. And further more as far as Genesis go's i was merely generalizing as i wanted more people to be involved. If i may say and correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Genesis four Hebrew documents written between 900 BC and 500 BC. And in 450BC they were combined into what is now the first five books of the bible (the Hebrew Torah and the Christian Pentateuch).
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Let go of your attachment to being right and suddenly your mind is more open. You’re able to benefit from the unique viewpoints of others, without being crippled by your own judgment.
Ralph Marston

 

[George-ananda]

Your post made me very happy sir

Were you talking to me or Riverwolf?

I see your new here. Welcome. You can hit the quote button on the post you are commenting on so people will know who you are talking to.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe the title speaks for itself. If you look at Genesis 1 you find a lot of vile stuff there including mass murder, inbreeding, adultery, and much more. If god is so great why would he kill off all of earth population in one flood save only Noah’s family? Why would he have a man go to a mountain a kill his son only to test his faith? why would he put man and woman in a paradise garden and judge them on good and evil when they die when they have no clue what good and evil were until they eat the forbidden fruit. And why o why would he let a man who worships him pawn off his wife as his sister and allow her to get "violated" by men she do's not know. If you ask me is this god a thing we should worship or despise.

We can't even verify that Moses existed. Why should we accept this unknown person as a spokesman for God?

Say God does exist. Why accept any part of the OT as representative of that God?

If you want to great. Then you can justify this view of God. Though I don't know why you should unless you feel some cultural connection to it.

 

[Riverwolf]

Your post made me very happy sir it’s hard to find someone in this world that is as open minded as you. i guess i have one question thou if god has no morality is it wise to worship "him". To explain why should you or me honor something that thinks us nothing more that "pawns" something that can be thrown away and replaced by something bigger and better. Why should we give him the satisfaction while we are nothing to him yet he is everything to us.

An excellent question, born out of a mindset that has its roots in Modern Christianity, with its all-or-nothing take on morality. That is to say, any presence of perceived evil nullifies any displayed good, however major. So no matter how much someone gives to charity, gives to the homeless, educates with accurate information, or maintains an open mind, if the person has ever stolen then BURN THE WITCH!! (Okay, that's hyperbolic nowadays, but not in some Puritanical communities, historically speaking.)

As I make the transition from Modern Christian-inspired morality (I've never been a Christian or follower of any Abrahamic religion, and have always had polytheistic tendencies, but I did grow up in the US and so Modern Christian-like thinking predominated my mindset when it comes to morality) to a more animistic mode of thinking, I start to realize more and more exactly why we give honor to a being that likely doesn't care about us: for the same reason we are to respect the Earth. It's not for any threat of divine punishment or epic smitetitude, but a very mundane reason that most of us have no real awareness of: crop yield.

Respect and understand the Earth, and She will more likely be consistent and predictable, allowing for a reliable yield of healthy crops to feed the community through many generations. Without that respect, we get exactly what we're seeing now: poorer overall health than before despite higher medical sophistication, mostly borne from substandard, sometimes poisonous, food that wasn't itself given the nutrients it needed while alive.

It's also worth remembering that once we get to polytheism, the problem of evil just evaporates. The Gods fight amongst themselves all the time; no matter what we do, some God is displeased.

And further more as far as Genesis go's i was merely generalizing as i wanted more people to be involved. If i may say and correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Genesis four Hebrew documents written between 900 BC and 500 BC. And in 450BC they were combined into what is now the first five books of the bible (the Hebrew Torah and the Christian Pentateuch).

That is one of the prevailing hypotheses, yes, that the Torah (and maybe Joshua as well) were written by four separate sources and then compiled together: the Documentary Hypothesis. I have been told that it's not the only hypothesis, however. Not Genesis itself, however; the fourth source, D, is the source of Deuteronomy. The hypothesis takes into account the entire Torah, not just any one book.

 

[Sapiens]

Not too many people I talk to today are that interested in all the old testament stories. It seems like atheists are more interested in these stories to mock believers.

Totally unnecessary ... the stories are self-mocking.

 

[Riverwolf]

Totally unnecessary ... the stories are self-mocking.

Until, you know, they're actually understood in their proper contexts. All stories are self-mocking when improperly understood.

The only self-mocking story I know in all of mythology is The Lay of Thrym.

 

[Akivah]

I believe the title speaks for itself. If you look at Genesis 1 you find a lot of vile stuff there including mass murder, inbreeding, adultery, and much more. If god is so great why would he kill off all of earth population in one flood save only Noah’s family? Why would he have a man go to a mountain a kill his son only to test his faith? why would he put man and woman in a paradise garden and judge them on good and evil when they die when they have no clue what good and evil were until they eat the forbidden fruit. And why o why would he let a man who worships him pawn off his wife as his sister and allow her to get "violated" by men she do's not know. If you ask me is this god a thing we should worship or despise.

I'm curious why only the negative is considered?
Why did G-d bother to create the Earth?
Why did G-d create humans after creating the animals? Weren't the animals enough?
Why would G-d create more humans after the flood, if they were so bad in the first place?
Why did G-d create everything with a finite lifespan?

 

[Thana]

Well your focus seems to be on why we should worship Him, So I'll address that.

Your comments imply there's a choice, But really there isn't one. If you knew God, You'd worship Him. No if's ands or buts. He's God, I know people throw that word around a lot but some of us don't forget what it really means and what He really is. Awe-inspiring and beyond comprehension.

As to why in the sense on morality, Well, We're fallible disgusting creatures and you think we have a right to judge any of God's actions? The audacity of humans, heh.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well your focus seems to be on why we should worship Him, So I'll address that.

Your comments imply there's a choice, But really there isn't one. If you knew God, You'd worship Him. No if's ands or buts. He's God, I know people throw that word around a lot but some of us don't forget what it really means and what He really is. Awe-inspiring and beyond comprehension.

As to why in the sense on morality, Well, We're fallible disgusting creatures and you think we have a right to judge any of God's actions? The audacity of humans, heh.

It probably depends on what you mean by worship.
I'd be completely awe-struck, I suppose. But I don't get why I'd worship him? At least, not based on what I think of with 'worship'. Maybe we work to different definitions though.

I could see God as being beyond comprehension, for example. But if He is, why worship him?

 

[Thana]

It probably depends on what you mean by worship.
I'd be completely awe-struck, I suppose. But I don't get why I'd worship him? At least, not based on what I think of with 'worship'. Maybe we work to different definitions though.

I could see God as being beyond comprehension, for example. But if He is, why worship him?

That's curious, I can't really seem to explain it well. Just that God is something so.. Amazing, That just being in His presence struck people dead, Or deaf and blind. Then to know that He loves you and created you and knew you before you ever breathed, Well I just can't imagine how someone wouldn't fall down in worship before Him.

I suppose it's not a difference in understanding of worship, But a difference in what we picture God to be like?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Until, you know, they're actually understood in their proper contexts. All stories are self-mocking when improperly understood.

The only self-mocking story I know in all of mythology is The Lay of Thrym.

That seems to be more to the point. The context of an infallible literal bible is the position which makes the bible most ridiculous. Focusing on this certainly has had the effect of its adherents modifying 'the context' in which they wish to perceive the bible.

No one ever moved away from the idea of an infallible literal bible, except upon reflection of how untenable that context is.

So those who now, you know, actually understand the proper context, no doubt owe a huge debt to those who have ridiculed scripture in the past.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's curious, I can't really seem to explain it well. Just that God is something so.. Amazing, That just being in His presence struck people dead, Or deaf and blind. Then to know that He loves you and created you and knew you before you ever breathed, Well I just can't imagine how someone wouldn't fall down in worship before Him.

I suppose it's not a difference in understanding of worship, But a difference in what we picture God to be like?

Yeah, maybe. It's an interesting thing to ponder, I think. Makes a break from the 'normal' atheist/theist discussions, certainly!

I can see God being so awe-inspiring that being in His presence strikes you down dead. Just overwhelms the senses, kinda thing.
So, I could fall down in awe, let's say. But I'd hazard a guess that if the Devil were literal and real, I might do the same?

Not in worship, but awe, fear, recognition of my own powerlessness, etc.

To my mind, to worship I would have to be giving thanks. I don't thank my parents for my birth very often, but instead for the guidance and help they've given me in my life. For being there when I needed them. Even then, it's thanks rather than worship.

So, I just don't see it as likely that I'd worship Him. Not unless he explained things to me, and it made sense. Not saying there that he needs to, or that I could understand. But IF I somehow understood, then I MIGHT see Him as worthy of worship. But honestly, worship of ANYTHING just seems a strange concept to me. Like losing part of oneself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your comments imply there's a choice, But really there isn't one. If you knew God, You'd worship Him. No if's ands or buts. He's God, I know people throw that word around a lot but some of us don't forget what it really means and what He really is. Awe-inspiring and beyond comprehension.

The Devil and one third of the Angels knew God but they still decided to rebel against Him. The point is that we always have a choice in the matter.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It probably depends on what you mean by worship.
I'd be completely awe-struck, I suppose. But I don't get why I'd worship him? At least, not based on what I think of with 'worship'. Maybe we work to different definitions though.

To worship something is to express ardent love and devotion to it. When you worship God, you are worshiping the Source of all that is good and the Source of life itself.

I could see God as being beyond comprehension, for example. But if He is, why worship him?

We cannot fully comprehend God, but He has seen fit to reveal Himself to us so we can understand Him in ways.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To worship something is to express ardent love and devotion to it. When you worship God, you are worshiping the Source of all that is good and the Source of life itself.

Okay...same definition of worship I was working to. Assuming it is for Thana as well, then no misunderstanding there.

We cannot fully comprehend God, but He has seen fit to reveal Himself to us so we can understand Him in ways.

Obviously we're on a different page with that one. But assuming he's real, I still highly doubt I'd worship him.