If God is our Father

[Redemptionsong]

parables first

you can hang around congregation if you like to
you can do ritual and dogma if it's makes you feel comfy

but as He said......if you keep not My sayings....
I don't know you

The sayings are summed up in one word - love. This kind of love is not our own but comes from God, who is love. As I see it, if you haven't repented and received of Christ's Spirit then you don't know God's love.

I'm not big into ritual because I'm not big into religion. Jesus Christ did not bring more religion, and I'm quite sure love cannot be made into a religion!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Definitely the one who looked like a human being in Daniel's dream was Jesus Christ in the future.
Now who do you think gave the authority to the one who looked like a human being?
As I have read it carefully as you asked - The one who looked like a human being was given authority, glory, and complete ruling power.

Why do you say 'the one who looked like a human being in Daniel's dream was Jesus Christ in the future'? Do you mean future to Daniel?

Verses 13,14 do not refer to the judgment but to Jesus' ascension to heaven. We know from Acts 1:11 that this description fits his departure from earth to his Father, the Ancient of days.

The Holy Spirit would not have been sent from heaven at Pentecost, as promised by Jesus, had Jesus not first been sat at the right hand of the Father on His heavenly throne.

Written on the cross were the words, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. They may have been words of mockery, but they turned out to be true, for the heir ascended to his throne shortly afterwards.

So Daniel verse 14 can be applied to our situation NOW. 'And there was given him [Jesus] dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations and languages, should serve him: his dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.'

This tells me that we should be serving Jesus Christ, as our Lord and our God, right now.

I'm very happy to accept that the Father gave authority to Jesus Christ. This is very much the same as saying that the Father gave his Spirit to his Son. And then, when we realize that the Son gave his Holy Spirit to us, we have God dwelling on earth with men - something the trinity was formulated to explain!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Remember that when Thomas made the statement recorded in John 20:28 he was not in the act of preaching and he was from a state of unbelief, thus it is not surprising if he committed mistake.

Calling the risen Jesus Christ his Lord and God may have been an exclamation, but it was not a mistake! Thomas had been a disciple of Jesus for over three years and believed him to be the Messiah. The reason Thomas was in a state of fear and doubt was because of Jesus' crucifixion. There had been false Messiah's before and it is not surprising that Thomas wanted physical proof that Jesus had been raised from the dead. Jesus provided that proof, and consequently Thomas exclaimed My Lord and my God! This was an exclamation of belief, not unbelief!

For any man to be called a god, let alone God, should bring the automatic rebuke of a devout man.

For example, when the apostle Paul healed a man in Lystra, the people wanted to make sacrifices to him, as if he were a god. In remonstration, Paul said, 'We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made the heaven, the earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:'

If Jesus Christ was just a man, as you claim, then he would have rebuked Thomas. But he didn't.

 

[MJFlores]

If Jesus Christ was just a man, as you claim, then he would have rebuked Thomas. But he didn't.

DID THE LORD JESUS CORRECT THOMAS FROM HIS MISTAKE?

Let us again see what really happened through the four Gospels, not only from the Gospel according to John. Let us start with John 20:19-20:

“Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.” (John 20:19-20, NKJV)

When the disciples were assembled, with the doors locked for the fear of the Jews, Jesus came and told them to be at peace. Then He showed to them His hands and side. What was their reaction? The disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. However, John further narrated that Thomas was not there that time:

“Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said to him, ‘We have seen the Lord.’ So he said to them, ‘Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.’” (John 20:24-25, NKJV)

When the other disciples told Thomas that they had seen the Lord, Thomas did not believe what they said. He reacted with disbelief and skepticism. He told them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” By this statement, Thomas became identified with skepticism and disbelief. The disciples were gathered again and Thomas was with them at this time:

“And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, ‘Peace to you!’” (John 20:26, NKJV)

The disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Originally, there were twelve apostles. However, Judas committed suicide, thus, when the Bible stated “eleven,” Thomas was with them (Judas was the the one not with them). In John 20:26, Jesus appeared to the “eleven” (Thgomas was with them). This was when Thomas uttered “My Lord and my God”:

“And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, ‘Peace to you!’ Then He said to Thomas, ‘Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.’ And Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:26-28, NKJV)

Mark also reported this event when Jesus appeared to the “eleven” as they were eating:

“And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe. After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either. Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.” (Mark 16:11-14, NKJV)

Luke also narrated this event when the Lord Jesus appeared to the “eleven”:

“So they rose up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, saying, ‘The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!’ And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, ‘Peace to you.’ But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.” (Luke 24:33-37 NKJV)

Both Mark and Luke reported this event when the Lord Jesus appeared to the “eleven” (Mark 16:13-14 and Luke 24:33-36). Thus, this was also the event reported by John in John 20:26-28, when Jesus appeared with the “eleven” (including Thomas).

Mark’s report was a generalization of the event: the disciples’ unbelief, the Lord appeared to the “twelve,” and Jesus “rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart.”

Luke made a much detailed report that Mark. In Luke’s report, when the Lord Jesus appeared to the “eleven,” they were terrified and frightened. Thus, it was not only Thomas who was terrified and frightened during that event, but even the other disciples.

Think of the situation before Jesus showed Himself to them: the doors were shut when Jesus abruptly stood in their midst and summoned Thomas to come near to Him. What was Thomas' reaction? A reaction of unbelief and amazement. Is this kind of reaction something that is strange or unusual? No, because according to Luke, Thomas was not the only one caught perplexed but also the rest of his companions. Luke reported that when Jesus appeared abruptly in their midst while the “eleven” were gathered together, they were terrified and frightened.

Because the disciples (not only Thomas but all the “eleven”) were caught perplexed (were terrified and frightened), Luke reported that “and supposed they had seen a spirit.” Luke reported that disciples mistook Jesus for a spirit. John on the other hand reported that Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and my God.” Why it is not wrong to conclude that not only Thomas but the other disciples also mistook Jesus as “God”? Because Jesus Himself taught them that God is spirit:

“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24 NKJV)

Did the Lord Jesus Christ confirm what the disciples thought about Him or He rebuke them? Let us continue our reading of Luke’s report

“Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." Luke 24:36-39, NKJV

Take note that the Lord Jesus was speaking to the “eleven” (including Thomas); the “eleven” mistook Jesus for a spirit or mistook Him as “God” (thus not only Thomas but the other apostles also committed the mistake that they mistook Jesus as “God”); but Jesus rebuked them.

In John’s report, Jesus summoned Thomas to reach out his finger, to look at His hands, and to reach out his hand to Him (cf. John 20:27), and then Thomas mistakenly said, “My Lord and my God” (cf. John 20:28). In Luke’s report, not only Thomas but all the “eleven” mistook Jesus for a spirit or mistook Him as “God.”

What did Christ do when they mistook Him for a spirit? He showed them His hands and His feet and told them that a spirit has no flesh and bones (cf. Luke 24:38-39). Notice that before He showed His hands and feet, what did Christ tell them? “Why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts arise in your hearts?” (cf. Luke 24:38, KJV). Christ was clearly upbraiding them.

Christ’s statements in Luke 24:39 is also tacitly teaching them that He is not God. Remember that prior to this event, The Lord Jesus Christ had earlier instructed the disciples about the nature of God. He taught them that God is a spirit (cf. John 4:24). The apostles mistook Him for a spirit which is tantamount to falsely thinking of Christ as having the same nature as God or being God Himself. Is this only an assumption? The very fact that Thomas stated to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” serves as palpable evidence that they had indeed believed a mistaken identity of Jesus. But, Jesus immediately corrected their wrong conclusion concerning His nature. He emphasized to them that He is not a spirit (Luke 24:39), which is equivalent to saying that He is not God in His state of being.

Jesus’ statement in Luke 24:39 serves as His didactical teaching to anyone who would think of Him as God. The clarification He made to those who thought of Him as a spirit is a reminder to anyone who would mistakenly think of Him as God. Whenever someone has a question regarding the true nature of Jesus Christ, he should be reminded simply about Jesus’ own statements in Luke 24:39 and His acknowledgment of His nature in John 8:40 wherein He emphatically declared:

“I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.” (John 8:40, NCV)

 

[MJFlores]

This tells me that we should be serving Jesus Christ, as our Lord and our God, right now.

I'm very happy to accept that the Father gave authority to Jesus Christ. This is very much the same as saying that the Father gave his Spirit to his Son. And then, when we realize that the Son gave his Holy Spirit to us, we have God dwelling on earth with men - something the trinity was formulated to explain!

How many gods do you have?
Next the prophet Daniel lived 700 years before Jesus Christ was born.
Daniel (biblical figure) - Wikipedia

So what was that all about?
It was Daniel's dream about Jesus Christ.
Did he dream about a god? No, he dreamt about a man
A man who was given a dominion, glory, kingdom that would last forever.
He did not dream another god.

So Daniel verse 14 can be applied to our situation NOW. 'And there was given him [Jesus] dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations and languages, should serve him: his dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.'

Who gave Jesus dominion and glory and a kingdom that all peoples nations and languages should serve him?
Who gave those to Jesus?
Have you not wondered who?

 

[74x12]

Malachi 2:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Have we not all one Father?
Has not one God created us?
Why do we deal treacherously with one another
By profaning the covenant of the fathers?

Who is the one God? Is it the Son or is it the Father as the Bible says?

Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus is everlasting Father. So you do the math. One Father is how many fathers? Proves Jesus is the only Father God.

 

[MJFlores]

Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus is everlasting Father. So you do the math. One Father is how many fathers? Proves Jesus is the only Father God.

So to you Jesus is not the Son of God but the Father of God?
I want to do the math, how many gods and fathers you have.
But since you quoted a reference in the Bible, let us check it out.

Isaiah 9:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


What was given? For unto us a Child is born,

What is the meaning of a child???
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
Definition of CHILD

So what was given to us is a child NOT a god. What was given to us is a young human being.

Was this child given to us, a father? Unto us a Son is given;
You said a while ago this proves Jesus is the only Father God.
But your verse says, the child given to us is a son, not a Father God.

Is he
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?

Lets read again:
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

It is not him per se but his name, why is that?

The name of Jesus was given by God
Jesus was exalted to the highest place by God
If Jesus is God, then he would no longer need a very powerful name right?
If Jesus is God, then he would no longer need to be exalted to the highest place right?
But Jesus Christ nature is a man and his name is God given and he was exalted by God to the highest place.

That is why the God given name Jesus Christ is so powerful and special
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Acts 4:12 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

The nature of the Lord Jesus Christ is a man
His name given by God is powerful while he still remain a man.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Christ’s statements in Luke 24:39 is also tacitly teaching them that He is not God. Remember that prior to this event, The Lord Jesus Christ had earlier instructed the disciples about the nature of God. He taught them that God is a spirit (cf. John 4:24). The apostles mistook Him for a spirit which is tantamount to falsely thinking of Christ as having the same nature as God or being God Himself. Is this only an assumption? The very fact that Thomas stated to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” serves as palpable evidence that they had indeed believed a mistaken identity of Jesus. But, Jesus immediately corrected their wrong conclusion concerning His nature. He emphasized to them that He is not a spirit (Luke 24:39), which is equivalent to saying that He is not God in His state of being.

Jesus’ statement in Luke 24:39 serves as His didactical teaching to anyone who would think of Him as God. The clarification He made to those who thought of Him as a spirit is a reminder to anyone who would mistakenly think of Him as God. Whenever someone has a question regarding the true nature of Jesus Christ, he should be reminded simply about Jesus’ own statements in Luke 24:39 and His acknowledgment of His nature in John 8:40 wherein He emphatically declared:

“I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.” (John 8:40, NCV)

John 4:24 should be understood as God is Spirit, not a spirit. The spirit that Jesus was talking about in Luke 24:39 is a ghost-like apparition. The word used in Greek that translates as 'spirit' is 'pneuma', and it can be used to refer to clean and unclean spirits. In this passage it is used to mean an unclean spirit, not God.

Jesus was a man (body, soul and spirit) with the anointing of God's Spirit. When he was raised to life, he had a body (made immortal), a soul and God's Spirit. During the forty days of resurrection on earth, Jesus Christ's immortal body could still be touched, and was capable of digesting food [Luke 24:43], but he could also vanish [Luke 24:31], and was eventually carried up to heaven [Luke 24:51].

John 8:40 is not saying that Jesus Christ is only a man. If he were only a man then he would fall short of the glory of God, as all men do [Romans 3:23]. So Jesus Christ is more than just a man; he is the sinless Son of God, and this makes him worthy of our worship.

This is what it says in Hebrews 1:5-8, 'For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.'

This fits with Daniel 7:14, where we read that Christ is to receive all authority over heaven and earth. This means that we are to serve Christ. Christ becomes our LORD. This is not to say that the Father disappears because by serving our Lord, we are also serving his LORD [Psalm 110:1].

We serve the Son because he has come from the Father, as God's Word.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

1. I disagree with nothing you said but at the same time

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

That's how i view these discussions

If you were able to use the Bible (instead of just those verses that support your beliefs) you would be given the ability to understand all that you seek.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:31-32 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

I posted verses, since that is what appeals to you. Notice, that the minds of people MUST be opened by the Lord before they can understand. Even the apostles needed it done. One must first find the Lord, then one’s mind can be opened. Until that point, it’s merely a matter of reading and hearing facts. The facts do not become understanding until the mind is opened. The apostles listened to the Lord for years and heard the facts but did Not understand, UNTIL .......

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The sayings are summed up in one word - love. This kind of love is not our own but comes from God, who is love. As I see it, if you haven't repented and received of Christ's Spirit then you don't know God's love.

I'm not big into ritual because I'm not big into religion. Jesus Christ did not bring more religion, and I'm quite sure love cannot be made into a religion!

So very well said.
Believe it.

 

[Iymus]

If you were able to use the Bible (instead of just those verses that support your beliefs) you would be given the ability to understand all that you seek.

Those verses support the duty of men and will of the Father which is the foundation of the bible.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Those verses support the duty of men and will of the Father which is the foundation of the bible.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Thanks. You win.

 

[Iymus]

Thanks. You win.

1. Is not about my personal victory. Is about revelation of the will of the Father and the commandments God which are of The Father because he is Lord God the only true God.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

[74x12]

So to you Jesus is not the Son of God but the Father of God?
I want to do the math, how many gods and fathers you have.
But since you quoted a reference in the Bible, let us check it out.

Isaiah 9:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


What was given? For unto us a Child is born,

View attachment 36557

What is the meaning of a child???
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
Definition of CHILD

So what was given to us is a child NOT a god. What was given to us is a young human being.

Was this child given to us, a father? Unto us a Son is given;
You said a while ago this proves Jesus is the only Father God.
But your verse says, the child given to us is a son, not a Father God.

Is he
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?

Lets read again:
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

It is not him per se but his name, why is that?

View attachment 36558

The name of Jesus was given by God
Jesus was exalted to the highest place by God
If Jesus is God, then he would no longer need a very powerful name right?
If Jesus is God, then he would no longer need to be exalted to the highest place right?
But Jesus Christ nature is a man and his name is God given and he was exalted by God to the highest place.

That is why the God given name Jesus Christ is so powerful and special
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Acts 4:12 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

The nature of the Lord Jesus Christ is a man
His name given by God is powerful while he still remain a man.

This all comes down to the duality of Christ's nature. Both God and man.

That is what Isaiah 9:6 is all about. He is both "a child that is born", "a Son that is given" and yet He is to be called "mighty God and "everlasting Father".

So, on one hand we have the humanity of Christ and on the other His eternal Divine nature. You can try to justify your beliefs by saying it's just a name. But names in the OT prophecies of the Messiah; have significant meaning. Jesus' names such as mighty God, everlasting Father and even "Immanuel" all point to His Divine nature. Immanuel meaning "God with us".

As for Jesus being raised to the highest by God. That is correct. This was to fulfill the prophesies of the Son of man. That He would be raised up and His enemies would be made His footstool. This is why Jesus came to defeat our enemies for us. It was not as if Jesus Himself had any need to fear these enemies. He came to put them down for us.

When you say Jesus is Lord you glorify who? The Father. (Philippians 2:11) This is because Jesus is the Father manifest. The Son of God is how God has chosen to manifest/reveal Himself in this age. (Hebrews 1:2)

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Putting all scriptures together. Not ignoring or excusing any of them; we come to the true knowledge that Jesus is God.

 

[moorea944]

This all comes down to the duality of Christ's nature. Both God and man.

That is what Isaiah 9:6 is all about. He is both "a child that is born", "a Son that is given" and yet He is to be called "mighty God and "everlasting Father".

So, on one hand we have the humanity of Christ and on the other His eternal Divine nature. You can try to justify your beliefs by saying it's just a name. But names in the OT prophecies of the Messiah; have significant meaning. Jesus' names such as mighty God, everlasting Father and even "Immanuel" all point to His Divine nature. Immanuel meaning "God with us".

As for Jesus being raised to the highest by God. That is correct. This was to fulfill the prophesies of the Son of man. That He would be raised up and His enemies would be made His footstool. This is why Jesus came to defeat our enemies for us. It was not as if Jesus Himself had any need to fear these enemies. He came to put them down for us.

When you say Jesus is Lord you glorify who? The Father. (Philippians 2:11) This is because Jesus is the Father manifest. The Son of God is how God has chosen to manifest/reveal Himself in this age. (Hebrews 1:2)

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Putting all scriptures together. Not ignoring or excusing any of them; we come to the true knowledge that Jesus is God.

[This all comes down to the duality of Christ's nature. Both God and man.]
No such thing...... Christ only had one nature. Scripture is clear on that. (Hebrews 2)

[That is what Isaiah 9:6 is all about. He is both "a child that is born", "a Son that is given" and yet He is to be called "mighty God and "everlasting Father".]
Glad you brought that up. He "shall be" called the Mighty God. It is not saying that he will be called God Himself. It is the Hebrew word "EL", in that verse. Meaning the power of or the power of God. David said that too in Psalms. It is God that I get my strength from. Or it is EL that I get my strength from. God's power. EL is used only a few times in scripture compared to Eloah or Elohim. Please keep in mind that God is different from GOD.

And "everlasting Father", again, does not make him God. Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!

In this same context the saints will qualify as priests in the Kingdom Age, In the First Kingdom Age the priests had to be the sons of the High Priest (from Aaron down). Therefore the priests (immortal) of the restored Kingdom Age will also have to be the children of the High Priest Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that one has to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom. Well Jesus is the Father for this rebirth, on the basis of his sacrifice (as noted in Isaiah 53:10).

The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.

Abraham is also given the title "Father" as he is the Father of the faithful and those baptized into Christ are constituted his children on the basis of faith (Gal 3:27-29). Abraham will qualify as an "Everlasting Father" as well, as he will inherit everlasting life.

There is no reason why a son can't also be a father. I am both a son and a father. My father had a father. The difference is that Yahweh had no beginning. He has no father, unlike Jesus. I certainly have a father, but when (if) I am born again I will necessarily have a new father. That will be Jesus, who also had a father, but his Father didn't have a father.

 

[74x12]

No such thing...... Christ only had one nature. Scripture is clear on that. (Hebrews 2)

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (Heb 2:16)

Notice it says He "took on him" the seed of Abraham? That implies very clearly that He existed beforehand. So otherwise He wouldn't "Take on" anything. He would simply be born a human being as promised which is what you believe. However, this verse contradicts your view. If He "took on" the nature of a man then He existed before.

 

[74x12]

Glad you brought that up. He "shall be" called the Mighty God. It is not saying that he will be called God Himself. It is the Hebrew word "EL", in that verse. Meaning the power of or the power of God. David said that too in Psalms. It is God that I get my strength from. Or it is EL that I get my strength from. God's power. EL is used only a few times in scripture compared to Eloah or Elohim. Please keep in mind that God is different from GOD.

Then as I said before you ahve two gods. You have "GOD" and "God". So that's two gods for the church. How can you reconcile it?

The fact is you cna't. You either have two gods or one GOD. Otherwise you must say Jesus is "a god" but not MY God. Fine. Then you are disowning Jesus Christ. Not cool.

And "everlasting Father", again, does not make him God. Jesus is most definitely a father without having to be Yahweh Himself. We understand the process and timing when Jesus becomes a father on the basis of Isaiah 53:10... when the Messiah makes himself an offering for sin he will see his seed (his descendants). It is on the basis of Christ sacrificing himself that he can have children. Aren't we born again through baptism, joining Jesus in his death and resurrection through the baptismal grave?!!

I agree that we are born again through the power of Jesus Christ making Hm our Father which proves He is God. As per Genesis 1:26.

Let us make man in our image ... This was a dual fulfillment as God did it first and Jesus does it secondly as in Romans 8:29. This proves Jesus is God come in the flesh.

And finally, how do you become children through Jesus exactly? By receiving His Spirit which then cries out "Abba Father" to God. This is how God knows you are His children. IF indeed you have received His Spirit. And the scriptures make no distinction between the Spirit of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God.

Notice:
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Don't say that we have received two Spirits one of God and one of Jesus because that's not true. There is only one Spirit. Notice:

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So the truth is that a true Christian will receive only one Spirit which is the Father and the Son. ONE Spirit with both these titles: Father and Son.

The fact that Jesus qualifies for the title of "Everlasting" Father is the fact that those born again through him will inherit everlasting life. The difference between Christ and God in the context of "everlasting" is that God is from everlasting and to everlasting. Jesus is only to everlasting, as he had an origin... but he will be the father of those who inherit everlasting life.

Jesus Christ is not just the same today and tomorrow but "yesterday" as well. This shows He is always the same and is from everlasting to everlasting.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

 

[moorea944]

Then as I said before you ahve two gods. You have "GOD" and "God". So that's two gods for the church. How can you reconcile it?

The fact is you cna't. You either have two gods or one GOD. Otherwise you must say Jesus is "a god" but not MY God. Fine. Then you are disowning Jesus Christ. Not cool.

I agree that we are born again through the power of Jesus Christ making Hm our Father which proves He is God. As per Genesis 1:26.

Let us make man in our image ... This was a dual fulfillment as God did it first and Jesus does it secondly as in Romans 8:29. This proves Jesus is God come in the flesh.

And finally, how do you become children through Jesus exactly? By receiving His Spirit which then cries out "Abba Father" to God. This is how God knows you are His children. IF indeed you have received His Spirit. And the scriptures make no distinction between the Spirit of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God.

Notice:
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Don't say that we have received two Spirits one of God and one of Jesus because that's not true. There is only one Spirit. Notice:

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So the truth is that a true Christian will receive only one Spirit which is the Father and the Son. ONE Spirit with both these titles: Father and Son.

Jesus Christ is not just the same today and tomorrow but "yesterday" as well. This shows He is always the same and is from everlasting to everlasting.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

[Then as I said before you have two gods. You have "GOD" and "God". So that's two gods for the church. How can you reconcile it?]
Again, your not understanding. I'm not saying there are two Gods, stop saying that. Our creator has many different names. (Even you should know that).

God, GOD, Lord God, Lord Almighty, etc, etc. Look them up in Hebrew someday, you'll understand what I"m talking about. But let's drop this two God thing.........

[The fact is you can't. You either have two gods or one GOD. Otherwise you must say Jesus is "a god" but not MY God. Fine. Then you are disowning Jesus Christ. Not cool.]
No idea what your talking about.......

[I agree that we are born again through the power of Jesus Christ making Hm our Father which proves He is God]
Ughhhh.....

[Gal 4 and Romans 8]
We're not calling Jesus, Father or Abba in those verses, We are calling our Heavenly Father, Abba.

[Jesus Christ is not just the same today and tomorrow but "yesterday" as well. This shows He is always the same and is from everlasting to everlasting.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8]
Again, your taking Jesus and putting him in Heaven before he was born. Why?..... And that's what "yesterday" means to you? Wow...... interesting....

 

[Redemptionsong]

Again, your taking Jesus and putting him in Heaven before he was born. Why?..... And that's what "yesterday" means to you? Wow...... interesting....

I hope you don't mind me adding a few words!

Hebrews 2:14. 'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;'

In this passage, who do you think 'took part' of flesh and blood? Who destroys the devil?

 

[MJFlores]

John 4:24 should be understood as God is Spirit, not a spirit. The spirit that Jesus was talking about in Luke 24:39 is a ghost-like apparition. The word used in Greek that translates as 'spirit' is 'pneuma', and it can be used to refer to clean and unclean spirits. In this passage it is used to mean an unclean spirit, not God.

OH MY GOD!!!