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Featured If God exists, would God care how many people believe in Him?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Ignosticism - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ignosticism

    Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless because the word god has no coherent and unambiguous definition.

    I guess you cannot answer the questions unless you can pretend you are a theist long enough to answer them. :D
     
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Indeed. Which is actually far too easy to help much, as indicated by my previous answer.

    Gods are like geometrical points, lines and curves: there are as many or as few of them as necessary for any given goal.
     
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  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's an interesting approach; I think it would be stronger with some scriptural examples from diverse sources.
     
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  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Here are my specific answers:

    "Believers: Do you think God cares how many people believe in Him?" Technically, I'm going with a qualified 'Yes'. God cares, but it's not a linear, more-is-better valuation.

    "Do you think God cares if some people are atheists?" I think God must care.

    "If God sent Messengers, would God care how many people believed in His Messengers?" If I accept the premise, I think God would want at least 2 people to believe the message. Beyond that, it's a hard question for me to answer, because for me Life is the message and everyone and everything is a messenger. ( I struggle with the concept of prophets/messengers, even though I believe in God. )

    "If God sent a Messenger, would God have a certain time frame on how soon afterward people believed in His Messenger?" I vote, 'no'. I think ultimately God is beyond and outside of the construct of Time.
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I think it would be more accurate to say that God does not *expect* everyone to believe in Him since that cannot realistically happen without God *making* them believe, and God does not infringe on people that way.

    But I believe that God *cares* if they believe. Scriptural sources of the Baha'i Faith indicate that God cares about humans believing and getting His messages.

    “Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings, p. 140

    “The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath wished nothing for Himself. The allegiance of mankind profiteth Him not, neither doth its perversity harm Him. The Bird of the Realm of Utterance voiceth continually this call: “All things have I willed for thee, and thee, too, for thine own sake.” Gleanings, p. 260


    Given these excerpts from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, we can deduce that God does care. However, it is abundantly clear that God needs nothing for Himself because God is self-sufficient, above having needs as humans have.
     
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  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Although I believe God sends Messengers, I also believe that Life has a message to convey and that is the reason we have to traverse the physical realm if existence.
    I gained this perspective in a book I started reading entitled The Purpose of Physical Reality.
     
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  7. night912

    night912 Active Member

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    I don't know. Why would I believe/think that I know what god wants if god is supposed to be unknowing.
     
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  8. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    If you think about it, do you care how many people believe you exist. Regardless of how many people believe you exist does not change the fact that you do does it? As far as caring if someone believes in your actual existence or not; would it bother you if an individual believed in your existence or would you take into consideration the person's understanding of what existence is. Apparently there is some kind of concern of what people believe or Messengers would have not been sent. As far as this being of arrogance I would personally debate this understanding with the consideration that nothing had to be done in order to lend Human guidance if there was no relevance of caring for their existence.
    I have a counter question; If you where the Creator and most Omnipotent in all Eternities, wouldn't you feel sad and lonely if you created something in which maybe companionship could be achieved? Not trying to imply that this is the reason for human's creation, but maybe a small part of it.
     
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  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    There is an excellent book written by the late, great Terry Pratchett called "Small Gods", i can recommend it.

    Book:Small Gods - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki

    It touches your OP in a light-hearted way,
     
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  10. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    If a god existed and was proven to exist there would be no atheist.


    See above.

    If??? See above

    If??? See above
     
  11. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Were we made in God's image, then God would have an ego like ours, so of course [he]'d care about how many. (This would contradict any idea that [he] was perfect, but what test will tell you if something's perfect in this abstract sense anyway?)
    Not that [he]'s ever thought to mention to me, no.
    Big problem is, we only have the word of ordinary humans that they're messengers. Why an omnipotent god, or even just a very powerful one, would choose such a clumsy and fraud-prone system escapes me. A bit like one of those letters from Nigeria ... If I went about my business in as inept a fashion, I'd have already accepted the risk that maybe no one at all would believe my messenger.
    I think my previous answer covers that ─ if I send a message in an inefficient and fraud-prone manner, I can hardly be surprised if I'm disbelieved or ignored.

    If I were using efficient communications, like phone, SMS, email, and offered clear evidence of my identity, I think if I received no answer within a month or so, I was probably being ignored. But even then I could scarcely blame the ignorer.
     
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  12. Neverends

    Neverends New Member

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    Do you think God cares at all ?

    Why should God care about naive , mediocre minded animals ?
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    If God exists, I think God's relation to us would run WAY deeper than what we "believe". It would be more engaged with us on the level of who and what we are, not just whatever nonsense we think is "true" about "reality".
     
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  14. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    The christian God? christian priests say yes. so they preach to attract more members.

    The christian God? christian priests say yes. so they preach to attract more members.

    The christian God? there aren't messengers. there is only Jesus.

    The christian God? there aren't messengers. there is only Jesus.
     
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  15. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    That's not actually true.

    Nobody really knows who wrote the Gospels. St. Paul is arguably more responsible for Christianity becoming a different religion, rather than a sort of Reformed Judaism. That's rather a more plausible explanation for the synoptic gospels.
    Just saying. Christians don't call them Messengers, but they look indistinguishable to me. Jesus didn't write anything that anyone knows about. Christians put their Faith in the humans claiming to speak for God.
    Tom
     
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  16. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    They are called apostles, not messengers. Messenger isn't appropriate title, I think.
     
  17. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    So, rather than responding to my post you're going to descend to a semantic argument.

    I'll go even a bit lower. What makes Paul, who never met Jesus, an Apostle? Is apostle just a claim people make for themselves? Can I be one? What if I convince someone that I personally met Jesus. Does that make me an Apostle?
    Tom
     
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  18. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Yes, God cares. Assuming God is not "out there" but comes from within. Our joys are God's joys. Our pain and frustrations are God's as well.

    The problem is most people do not accept a living God as being perfect, whole, complete, without any needs or desires. Such a God would seem to be indifferent to both atheists and believers. Such a God would hold all facets of His creation in equal value.

    Believing in God in a proper way alleviates our suffering of doubts about our place the Universe. Choosing to ignore His messengers only creates more opportunity for us to suffer with our own imperfections. Choosing to believe in His messengers creates an opportunity for us to alleviate our suffering as we live our lives.

    Some of us choose to suffer more than others. The power of God comes from within as well as the source of all our suffering. Choice is not a decision based on reason. Choice is a shift in our conscious way of being. We all get to choose hate and suffering. Or we can choose love and the glory of God over hate and suffering.

    The most sacred of all joys comes from the realization that our own joy is boosted thousands of times over when we help other people find their joy. There's always ample opportunity to find sacred joy by helping others find joy.
     
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  19. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Jesus had 12 students. Before Jesus left, he promised the Paracletus to his students, so that the students will continue his work. After the Paracletus, the students became Apostles, to carry on the work of Jesus. The Paracletus guides the Apostles. And the circle of the Apostles grew with more members and became the Apostle Church. Paul became part of the church as a new Apostle. A messenger is someone who reveals the will of God. But Jesus already revealed the will of God. So there aren't any more ''messengers''.
     
  20. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    But there's a difference between "Jesus said..", and stories written by people saying "Jesus promised me the Paraclete, and I got it!"
    Tom
     
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