If God exists why does He allow suffering?

[Dawnofhope]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

To be brutally honest, I can not give an answer to your question, of why Allah let people suffer I simply do not know the answer to it at this moment in time. So if i tried to answer, i would not be able to give a righteous answer.

To me personally(not about what i think Allah want me to answer) i take suffering as there is still more to learn about my self, and to understand why suffering occure in my life the way it does. But i can not give answer to why Allah let me suffer. Only Allah know that answer.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

The Root of All Suffering is mortality.

Im very sorry to hear about your colleague.

 

[viole]

If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

With « we », do you mean the 2 years old kid who died of bone cancer, or her parents? The 30,000 kids who will die today, or their parents?

i ask because the young victim who suffered horribly and died, without the slightest chance to develop anything, is usually forgotten. And we just concentrate on the parents who have an opportunity to develop and attain new strengths.

much too easy. Of course the problem of evil does not provide evidence against God. It provides evidence against a benevolent God, since much of this suffering looks really pointless.

it does not provide evidence of a malevolent God either, since then we will have a problem of good.

it provides evidence of Universal indifference. But once we have that, what do we need to invoke a God at all? Naturalism does already a good job in explaining that.

ciao

- viole

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

I see it allows us to submit to the fact that we do not exist without purpose.

We can look for that purpose in all we face, or we can find other ways to cope that do not see any purpose.

In the end, we can not really know why God chooses to do as God Willeth, but we can know that is the best choice for the progress of out soul.

Regards Tony

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

@adrian009

Hi! As your fellow human, yet non-religious, here is my answer:

When I started asking questions about how the world works, I was told in the Western tradition, that I can use reason, logic and evidence and that can answer everything. And I should avoid any forms of faiths, beliefs and so on, because I didn't need that. I could do it all with reason, logic and evidence.
Long story short. I couldn't and apparently nobody can. So here is my answer and it has nothing to do with that you are a theist. For the fundamental/existential/metaphysical questions have faith. I.e. God is fair to you as a theist, even if you can't figure it out with reason, logic and evidence.

Regards
Mikkel

 

[SalixIncendium]

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

In my understanding, suffering is a result of ignorance.

• Ignorance of what "God" is and what "God" does.
• Ignorance of one's own true nature and the nature of the transactional reality they experience.

That said, as I see it, there is a practical use in suffering. In my experience, it helps eliminate ignorance through empathy. If one never suffers, one never has a true understanding of what another that suffers is experiencing.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

First the bad news then the good news. We're all going to die. The good news is that we're all alive now. We are all limited in our lifespans and we have to deal w/ it. It's a good world, sure, every second about 4 people die, and at the same time about 6 people are born.

The problem here is not the fact of death but rather the fact that she's unhappy. A strange thing about happiness is that people who are happy are the way they are regardless of circumstances. A while back I was listening to so someone who was describing the happiest person he ever met, the victim was a Rabbi who was dying of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's disease) and all he had could do is wink an eye, so the hooked up a camera/comuter that allowed him to communicate like Steven Hawking did.

The hospital visit went on for an hour or two and they talked & talked about everything under the sun and the Rabbi waxed philosophical about many things but always so happy about how things were going and what he'd been able to do.

I dearly hope that I could die like that, though my luck they'd have to zonk me w/ pain killers/mood elevators (better living thru chemistry) & my mind might not be as clear. I have to struggle right now to maintain a positive outlook --it's hard work. My wife is naturally happy & a godsend/example to me so maybe I can die like that rabbi after all some day.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Perhaps the thread's question is incomplete. It asks why there is suffering only "if God exists." It might be easier to answer were the question expanded to," if God exists and has the characteristics I've been taught, why does He allow suffering?"

And of course, those characteristics are omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Epicurus leaves out the omniscient part altogether, and still manages to ask a powerful question:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

In my own view, of course, God does not exist, and **** happens.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Perhaps the thread's question is incomplete. It asks why there is suffering only "if God exists." It might be easier to answer were the question expanded to," if God exists and has the characteristics I've been taught, why does He allow suffering?"

And of course, those characteristics are omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Epicurus leaves out the omniscient part altogether, and still manages to ask a powerful question:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

In my own view, of course, God does not exist, and **** happens.

I can answer all questions.

1. The foundation of this earth was set when man fell. That fall is not disobedience, but the migration of their physical body from celestial to terrestrial, from immortal to mortal. Thus, the earth was affected the same way because the raw materials that coupled his body was taken from the earth. It was when Man fell, that the terrestrial system; the self destruct system was set, and authorised to operate. The reason is because the very foundation that was set must be set to accomodate mortals in the earth. That is why there has to be a link between the body and the earth else the fruits and animals in this earth could not be eaten to sustain man. This earth has a name and it is the "procreation arena", and mortality was required for procreation. The system; the terrestrial of the earth was required for mortals to sustain their life.

2. GOD sent us Prophets to feed us with HIS Word that when we meditate in HIS Word; which has Genetic Spiritual properties and contents; it hatches HIS gene in the body to take the body from mortality back to immortality which is crossing from one world to another.

3. Evil came from the Abyss, which GOD allowed so that darkness can be defined, for Light to also be defined. Else, how can one know what Light is without darkness? The Abyss was authorised to operate at the fall of man.

4. Before all of Creation HE is GOD. Before HE is Father, HE is GOD. HE is GOD because HE has no ending and no beginning.

And finally, anyone that needs to ask these questions is not a child of the kingdom.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Perhaps the thread's question is incomplete. It asks why there is suffering only "if God exists." It might be easier to answer were the question expanded to," if God exists and has the characteristics I've been taught, why does He allow suffering?"

And of course, those characteristics are omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Epicurus leaves out the omniscient part altogether, and still manages to ask a powerful question:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

In my own view, of course, God does not exist, and **** happens.

Well, yes. But that is not limited to God.
"If the universe is fair(no Boltzmann Brains and all that), then can I as I have been taught, explain the universe(everything) with logic, reason and evidence?"
So I first gave up on God and then I gave up on explaining the universe(everything) with logic, reason and evidence.

 

[blü 2]

..The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before.

I agree.

As Epicurus is said to have said, what suffering shows is that EITHER that God is not benevolent OR that God is not omnipotent ─ or, of course, both.

Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

If your belief gives you comfort or consolation at such times, who can argue?

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively.

I'm not a believer, but I'm probably stoic small-s by nature. That was no defense against the death of my wife a decade or so ago; but I think if bonding is to be important, grief is an essential part of life. That doesn't lessen the hurt, or shorten the grief, but it saves shaking one's fist at the heavens.

 

[Dawnofhope]

We are all born and will all die. Most of us will experience loss, pain and suffering to some degree in this life. Many of us will experience ill health and the loss of someone we love and care deeply about. These are all facts of life.

Perhaps a better question is “Does any of this prove or disprove the existence of God?” I don’t see that it does. God could of course be invisible and completely unconcerned about any of us humans. He may not intervene or be powerless to do so. If God is a Creator God, who care about His Creation and has the power to intervene then what does suffering say about the nature of God’s design? Clearly suffering exists and its existence permeates our lives. Can a loving and caring God who intervenes with Creation stand by and let innocents suffer and die?

 

[ChristineM]

Atheist so can only answer in the 3rd person. The problem appears to be that many religions bestow illogical power's on their god. Example, god is omni everything and yet real life denies this possibility. It therefore falls to the religious to build apologetics to at least paper over the glaring omissions and make them acceptable to the believer.

 

[SalixIncendium]

And finally, anyone that needs to ask these questions is not a child of the kingdom.

The exclusionary sentiments that come from some Abrahamics is always heartwarming.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Example, god is omni everything and yet real life denies this possibility.

Why do you believe life as we know it proves there can be neither Omniscient or Omnipotent?

 

[Yahcubs777]

The exclusionary sentiments that come from some Abrahamics is always heartwarming.

I am not excluding anybody, i am saying an evidence of someone that is not a child of the kingdom. Even saying "I believe in GOD" is an insult to the GOD of Creation, not to talk about doubting HIS Most Holy Character and HIS Existence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We are all born and will all die. Most of us will experience loss, pain and suffering to some degree in this life. Many of us will experience ill health and the loss of someone we love and care deeply about. These are all facts of life.

Perhaps a better question is “Does any of this prove or disprove the existence of God?” I don’t see that it does. God could of course be invisible and completely unconcerned about any of us humans. He may not intervene or be powerless to do so. If God is a Creator God, who care about His Creation and has the power to intervene then what does suffering say about the nature of God’s design? Clearly suffering exists and its existence permeates our lives. Can a loving and caring God who intervenes with Creation stand by and let innocents suffer and die?

Okay, here is my answer and it has nothing to do with God in particular. There is a common idea at least in some humans. Namely that everything must make sense. But as a skeptic I have learned that I don't have to do in the following sense: Everything must make sense with strong reason, logic and evidence.

Rather I do everything as it makes sense to me and accept if you do some parts differently. So I accept the following the difference: How everything makes sense to me properly is not how everything makes sense to God. So I accept there could be a God, but that I can't understand God as how everything makes sense. The closest I can get to God even as a non-religious human is to try to do All-Loving (God) without actually being able to do. So I don't claim God as I can't be like God and don't have to believe in God, because I can only do it as me.

Yes, that is weird, but that is the closest I can as a skeptic get to God. I can believe that there could be a God, but I don't have to believe in God.

Regards
Mikkel

 

[Vinayaka]

I totally agree with this sentiment of there being no God, when it comes to the puppeteer version or the Abrahamic God. People think if they win a game, it was due to God. If they recover from cancer, it's because of God, etc. The more you pray, the better your life is! I find the idea silly. It's silly because there is overwhelming evidence that that's not how it works. In a clash between believers, BOTh pray heavily. What kind of God would be playing child games with His creation.
In the potter analogy I put up in another thread, this is the potter, and only the potter. He controls it all, and does whatever he wants.
So there has to be some other explanation. Either that or there is no God.

 

[Colt]

I was working amidst a rural community and was invited to dinner with one of my workmates and her husband. My colleague has just been diagnosed with cancer for the second time in her life. Its a tough time for her but she’s dealing with it really well. She had grown up Christian but in her twenties several people she knew died in short succession. This led her to conclude there was no God. “Why would God allow such suffering?” She feels as if she’s coping just fine now without believing in God and she certainly appears to be.

She asked me as a declared theist “If there is a God, why would He allow such suffering?” As an invited guest of a colleague with cancer I felt it best to empathise with her perspective and listen without offering a theistic view.

The belief that suffering rules out the existence of God is something I’ve heard from atheists and agnostics before. Although I’ve suffered in life from time to time, its never led me to question God’s existence. In fact I’ve just had a really tough month or so for which I’m grateful. Admittedly I’m not wrestling with a cancer diagnosis or the loss of a loved one.

So I’m curious as to how others view suffering and whether it affects their beliefs about God positively or negatively. If a Creator God exists why didn’t He do a better job of designing the universe? If we suffer, shouldn’t we see it as an opportunity to develop and attain new insights and strength?

I’ve put this in the general debates section to allow freedom of expression. I’m wanting to better understand why this is such a critical issue for so many people rather than debate. Thanks in advance for those who drop by to offer their sincere thoughts about how suffering affects their faith.

Without the potential of suffering and imperfection there would be no free will. Joy and sadness, Good vrs evil etc.

Part of our suffering is a consequence of Lucifers rebellion against God.