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If god can be proven

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?

Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?

If you don't believe in god, please entertain the thought with some valuable insight.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?

Of course there would be. I'm curious why you think there wouldn't be?


Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?

This is just such a weird question to me. The importance the gods I have in my life is not contingent on other people accepting that the things I worship as gods are gods. If I let everything of myself and my ways of life be controlled by outsiders, well... I certainly wouldn't be Pagan. I'd probably still be an atheist whining about how theism and religion are stupid wastes of time.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?

Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?

If you don't believe in god, please entertain the thought with some valuable insight.

Why would a God need worship? It sounds pretty small.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Of course there would be. I'm curious why you think there wouldn't be?

It was something I got from another thread. Their opinion was there would not be. I was wondering if others would think the same.

This is just such a weird question to me. The importance the gods I have in my life is not contingent on other people accepting that the things I worship as gods are gods. If I let everything of myself and my ways of life be controlled by outsiders, well... I certainly wouldn't be Pagan. I'd probably still be an atheist whining about how theism and religion are stupid wastes of time.

The perspective of a abrahamic and perspective of a pagan would, of course, be different. I think only christianity is a faith-based religion. So, other religious may agree with you with your points when it comes to practice and not letting others control how you live your life.

When you were atheist, did you feel the need to wine about theism and religious views?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Why would a God need worship? It sounds pretty small.

Not sure. Wasn't something I've thought of, really. The person I got this from mentioned if god can be proven, there'd be no need for religious worship. I thought that odd but was wondering if others have insight on that.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Why would a God need worship? It sounds pretty small.
God has no needs so God does not need our worship. God wants us to worship Him only for our own benefit.

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

“The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath wished nothing for Himself. The allegiance of mankind profiteth Him not, neither doth its perversity harm Him. The Bird of the Realm of Utterance voiceth continually this call: “All things have I willed for thee, and thee, too, for thine own sake.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh,pp. 260
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It was something I got from another thread. Their opinion was there would not be. I was wondering if others would think the same.

That's fair. I find that opinion very strange and would be curious to hear the rationale for it. Seems to me most religious practices don't really rely on absolute certainty of anything - probably because none of our behaviors as human rely on that, really - whether or not it involves gods.



When you were atheist, did you feel the need to wine about theism and religious views?

Sadly, yes. Fortunately, this was mostly confined to journals I kept at the time that nobody ever saw. It drove me up the wall when one of my parents would describe me as "deeply religious." I took that as a grievous insult ("religious" in general was a snarl word to me at that time). I didn't understand they was referencing my perchance for asking and exploring deep, existential questions - a core of what religion does. Once I learned more about what religion actually was, and what theism actually was, I look back on those days and just shake my head. :sweat:
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Not sure. Wasn't something I've thought of, really. The person I got this from mentioned if god can be proven, there'd be no need for religious worship. I thought that odd but was wondering if others have insight on that.

To elaborate on why this sounds so odd to me, this is rather like saying "because you know who your parents are for certain, there's no need to celebrate their birthdays." Just... what? o_O
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Not sure. Wasn't something I've thought of, really. The person I got this from mentioned if god can be proven, there'd be no need for religious worship. I thought that odd but was wondering if others have insight on that.

It could be that the individual was talking about rituals not worship?

One theory of the purpose of a ritual is to reveal Godliness as it exists in the material world. If God is proven, then rituals that exist for this purpose may be irrelevant.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?
I cannot see why not, but if anything there would be more need for religious practices for people who were 100% certain that God exists because they would be more dedicated to God. That is related to what I said below.
Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?
I cannot see why God would not still have importance in a person's life, if God could be proven with 100% certainty.

I know with 100% certainty that God exists even though I cannot prove it and I think knowing that makes God even more important in my life, because I have no doubt that God exists. Think about it this way: If I was not sure God exists I could do other things rather than serving God, because there would be that sense of doubt that would make me wonder if I am wasting all my time on a God that might not actually exist.

Sometimes I wish I was not sure, but I cannot turn the ship around now that it has gone so far off to sea.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Humans.

Knowledge.

Says space is infinite owns no measure.

I think about it. It is scary.

I however live on a planet kept safe by it's gas spirit heavens

I tell myself. I am safe.

Then my brother a scientist proved to my equalled partnered life human that he decided to replace equal life partnership with a machine.

His fake God science stories. For his machine partner.

So my brother with his machine gave birth to a new artificial form. Non life continuance an alien.

The heavens immaculate supported human life.

He abominated it said it was a mathematical probability. A problem. A mental status. Science.

Said it an omen. Ab omen of nations.

Notice holy women term. Natural life removed. Stated now an omen of his ABBA term. Father cloak gas of many colours. Changed by nations.

The multi ground state on our planet.

So we now live in fear on earth invaded by that spatial condition.

As we said our earth heavens space womb was holy. Supporting a holy human life. To enable holy life continuance as holy human babies and animal life. In a stable earth atmospheric body.

Our brother changed it to a spatial past nuclear reactive status.

We believed in holy God stories as it supported living conditions

O natural God O stone.
Natural God stone spirit heavens.

We knew God existed.

Science said God did not exist. Their human intention to remove earths body.

Basic reasons to believe in God by science terms.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It could be that the individual was talking about rituals not worship?

One theory of the purpose of a ritual is to reveal Godliness as it exists in the material world. If God is proven, then rituals that exist for this purpose may be irrelevant.

That would mean rituals "make god exist" and if he does, there'd be no use of rituals because the purpose of them would be mute?

I can see that if we take, say, the Eucharist. If jesus christ-the flesh-was present, then there'd be no need for transubstantiation and even the sacraments because the head of communion would be in flesh and blood (literal).

Why would one want to experience godliness from rituals if the person with whom they are practicing the ritual to experience exist before their own eyes?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member

To elaborate on why this sounds so odd to me, this is rather like saying "because you know who your parents are for certain, there's no need to celebrate their birthdays." Just... what? o_O

Ha. Hey. I didn't make it up. But, really, that's where the faith-argument comes from. If you know with certainty, you don't need faith. If you don't have faith, then god (the experience) is either invalidated or was a lie. Basically, if god is "mystery" and someone solved the mystery, people would have no purpose in religion or otherwise to find the purpose of their own.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's fair. I find that opinion very strange and would be curious to hear the rationale for it. Seems to me most religious practices don't really rely on absolute certainty of anything - probably because none of our behaviors as human rely on that, really - whether or not it involves gods.

I wanted to ask that member but every time I asked a question to learn more, they become mute. I stopped asking them questions.

Sadly, yes. Fortunately, this was mostly confined to journals I kept at the time that nobody ever saw. It drove me up the wall when one of my parents would describe me as "deeply religious." I took that as a grievous insult ("religious" in general was a snarl word to me at that time). I didn't understand they was referencing my perchance for asking and exploring deep, existential questions - a core of what religion does. Once I learned more about what religion actually was, and what theism actually was, I look back on those days and just shake my head. :sweat:

Wow. Hm. Sounds like a good learning experience.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
That would mean rituals "make god exist" and if he does, there'd be no use of rituals because the purpose of them would be mute?

I can see that if we take, say, the Eucharist. If jesus christ-the flesh-was present, then there'd be no need for transubstantiation and even the sacraments because the head of communion would be in flesh and blood (literal).

Why would one want to experience godliness from rituals if the person with whom they are practicing the ritual to experience exist before their own eyes?
Humans lost DNA as a human.

We lost water mass body to sacrifice. We lost our bio energy food in water also.

Life food.

How human image burnt ground bio bodies in water when evaporated from ground.....became the image in a greater cloud amassing.

How rain flooding cooled radiation gas burning abduction of life.

The alienation effect.

How aliens gas cooling artificially irradiated using our life ground water emerged. Whilst above us the scientist image appears in clouds. Man.

Trying to travel back to sun time.

As earth owned O God time twelve hour constant gas burning light to twelve hours ground cooling at night.

Sun time equalled volcanic gas. Where clouds originally burning gases smoking came from.

Cooled since in space womb.

The ritual. See why man sacrificed his life by science sin? You now have to eat extra food to supplement life spirit lost.

Never forget......how holy Family and life is.

Teaching.

Radiation effect science amassed was To be cleared out by vacuum by 2012.

Never give God Alchemy owned naturally a name again.

Or else DNA human will leave again.

And it did

Science did not keep its promise.

Half water mass gas spirit coat of colours gone. History effect...event.

ABBA cloak mantle heavens.

AB half gone omen nations.

Ground fission reaction.
Sin origin God mass gone. Sink holes.

Extra radiation artificial effect alien.

Man image owned God gas heavens. Not alien image.

God O earth owned the Alchemy holy.

Science broke law stone Alchemy....applied reactions by man science controls. Changed nature of God in vacuum history. Caused artificial effect.

A taught known human science cause.

Artificial occurs by science interfering with natural products.

All of which historic had already converted in levels of sun radiation.

God. Not sun radiation.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Ha. Hey. I didn't make it up. But, really, that's where the faith-argument comes from. If you know with certainty, you don't need faith. If you don't have faith, then god (the experience) is either invalidated or was a lie. Basically, if god is "mystery" and someone solved the mystery, people would have no purpose in religion or otherwise to find the purpose of their own.
A man. Just a human with other men agreed science.

You said burning energy in space got held in mass as it cooled.

Said God a seal stone owned presence by mother of God space vacuum.

In theory your claim is I will know space. Not God

Straight awAy your words quote not God.

So you confess your intentions in science.

If you knew space then you say space became first...as whatever used to exist in mass is gone removed for a place to move reaction.

You confess as a man to want God gone.

What our brother a non scientist using science told you. Science as science is fake. Science is wrong. Science evil.

Yes says the theist space beginnings consuming mass is evil. I want to know.

Why we said you are a satanist.

Satan ist.
Science...ist.

Same person different title.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?

Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?

If you don't believe in god, please entertain the thought with some valuable insight.

At least not the religious practices we have.

But more:
If God could be easily proven/observed/shown to exist even to a skeptic, then this would show the common Bible extensively nonsensical in its own terms, both in Old Testament and New Testament.

In the Old Testament in that the commonplace that many people in any time and place did not believe in God wouldn't make sense anymore in any manner (if God were easily proven/observed). So the Old Testament would stop making sense even relative to its own terms.

The New Testament situation: even more so -- a clear proof of God would make the text clearly wrong in every book, even most chapters.

We learn repeatedly in the New Testament that God specifically wants "faith" from us, and "faith" is to believe before proof. Without seeing. (Faith is a sort of leap of belief/trust in the Good, before the Good becomes clearly present.)

e.g. -- Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.


So, all the religious seeking of God that is based on the common Bible would be out the window were that the case.

There will be a clear and obvious proof, in the future, where "every knee will bow" (seeming to mean spontaneously, overwhelmed by His presence and/or glory), but that's an overwhelming change that will be the transition to a new time.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I got this from another thread. If god can be proven with 100% certainty, would there be a need for religious practices?

Even more so, would god have any importance in a person's life while alive, if god could be proven outside one's subjective experiences?

If you don't believe in god, please entertain the thought with some valuable insight.

It would be the same, if not more beneficial, than just believing. No doubt whatsoever. Knowledge is better than mere belief.

Knowing that god exists wouldn't detract from the things that god could do. Belief is fooling yourself into thinking that you knowing. 100% knowledge, even 90% knowledge, would be more powerful than believe IMO.

Religious practice would still be the same I think. They are actioned on the premise at the moment that god/s do exist.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
It would be the same, if not more beneficial, than just believing. No doubt whatsoever. Knowledge is better than mere belief.

Knowing that god exists wouldn't detract from the things that god could do. Belief is fooling yourself into thinking that you knowing. 100% knowledge, even 90% knowledge, would be more powerful than believe IMO.

Religious practice would still be the same I think. They are actioned on the premise at the moment that god/s do exist.
Trust is better than distrust for a love relationship to endure and last -- in that distrust misreads things, increases conflicts, and fails to see what is good.

"Faith" or "belief" is simply "trust in the Good, before it is seen or present".

So, you see, that is why 'trust' before the good arrives is valuable, and that's why "faith" is valuable, even above the very valuable thing "knowledge".
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Ha. Hey. I didn't make it up. But, really, that's where the faith-argument comes from. If you know with certainty, you don't need faith. If you don't have faith, then god (the experience) is either invalidated or was a lie. Basically, if god is "mystery" and someone solved the mystery, people would have no purpose in religion or otherwise to find the purpose of their own.

I suppose that tracks, at least if one is locked into binary, either-or thinking instead of both-and-other thinking. Certainly, a devotee of the Spirit of Mystery could no longer worship Mystery if there were no mysteries, as it were... it would invalidate the very concept of that god/phenomena in our reality.


Wow. Hm. Sounds like a good learning experience.

It was. I sometimes like to call that phase of my life "angstheism" rather than "atheism," so as to not unintentionally disrespect atheism that is more thoughtful and less angry/scathing in its approach. Had events gone a bit differently, I might have shifted from angstheism to more thoughtfully-minded atheism. Hard to say. These days, I mostly just find the "distinction" between theist/atheist to be useless.
 
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