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Featured If Christianity is the truth then Judaism is also the truth

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Meandflower, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    Thanks for your reply, nice post.

    I like this:

    "and not even his enemies successfully challenged his claim of being a descendant of David.​

    That would have put an end to everything. It would have been the equivalent of finding a body after resurrection Sunday.

    And even the Old Time Jews knew that He was a descendant of David.

    I can tell that you love the Lord.

    You ask the crucial questions.

    My answers would be no to all.

    The Old Time Jews had one last chance to redeem the 70 weeks.

    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.​

    What if they WERE willing?

    What if they DID allow Jesus to gather them as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings?

    What would have happened next?

    Would Paul get knocked off his horse?

    Would Revelation still be written?

    Would the Romans have crucified Jesus in the same way?

    Or would He have been pierced by a different method that resulted in all of Israel mourning for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieving bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son?

    Right now I see the Israel of today, specifically the rebuilding of the Old City of Jerusalem, as being there just for the purpose of holding up two sign posts, sign posts that are pointing to the Second Visitation of our Messiah.

    "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.​

    This video is my favorite so far.

    Lending evidence to Paul's verse.

    Just the fact that they are there, and continue in the same demeanor since the Exodus in 1437 BC, proves the OT/NT as true.

    Still as stiff neck as can be:



    Suffice it to say that I don't think Jesus is coming back again for the purpose to start up Old Israel.

    But that's just how i read it.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
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  2. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    And here is a video from the other Abrahamic religion that appears to show how even Islam is NOT blinded in part.

    Ahmadinejad makes mention of Jesus eleven times in seven minutes. The Pope did an hour speech to Congress and didn't mention Jesus once.

    Snip of Ahmadinejad at 5:40:

    "We believe Jesus Christ will return together with one of the children of the revered Messenger of Islam and will lead the world to love, brotherhood and justice. The responsibility of all followers of Jesus Christ and Abrahamic faiths is to prepare the way for the fulfillment of this Divine promise and the arrival of that joyful, shining and wonderful age. - Ahmadinejad


    He might have been trying to do a political correction deal, but still.

    The people over at ask the Rabbi can be overtly rude.

    Ask Rabbi Dan.

    Peaceful Sabbath :)
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find 'seas' are also oceans, so I don't understand why you say No more oceans.
    Won't Jesus have subjects (citizens) from 'sea to sea' according to Psalms 72:8__________
    Each person will sit under his own 'vine and fig tree' ( both need water ) - Micah 4:4; Zechariah 3:10

    As for the deserts I find the deserts will blossom according to Isaiah 35th chapter; Isaiah 51:3; Ezekiel 36:35
     
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  4. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    I think there'll be seas and oceans and boats. I want a big sail boat, and time to learn sailing.

    And no more sea.

    "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.​

    Earlier in Revelation 13, it talks about a composite beast rising from the sea, with seven heads and ten horns.

    Then latter in chapter 17, when explaining the seven head and ten horn beast, it says that the waters that you saw were the many peoples, multitudes and nations that the beast rises from.

    “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages.​

    Since the "waters", the "sea", were the nations that gave rise to the composite beast, Revelation 21's "no more sea" might mean that there no longer is "many nations and peoples and tongues."

    We are only one people at that time, God's People.

    No more troubled "sea."

    But another guy said that there's going to be too numerous of an amount of God's People and holy angels, that more land mass will be needed.

    If he's right, I'll nave to float my sail boat on the holodeck of New Jerusalem.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Yes, it’s very obvious that this reference has nothing to do with literal oceans and seas. These are vital to life here on earth. Without the oceans life could not exist here. It is the sea of restless, disunited humanity that will disappear.

    Isn’t it funny how people want to tell God how to conduct his business on his earth? When God told the first humans to “fill the earth”, he did not say to “overfill” it. So when that point was reached, and the earth was comfortably “filled”, he obviously has a plan for when that occurs. Either he would put a stop to reproduction, or else prepare other planets for habitation as he did this earth, so as to continue life there....? He hasn’t told us of these future plans, but there has to be a time when change will come as needs arise.

    Not the same, is it? We are humans created by God to enjoy his creation. Our creativeness is a reflection of his, so he gave us a sense of enjoyment in whatever we find pleasure in doing. As individuals we will still all have our own favorite things to do.

    I will leave the details to Him, knowing that whatever he gives us, we will love it!
     
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  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It was God’s promise to Abraham that his seed would produce the Messiah. They too were promised that they would become “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”....but it was conditional...they had to obey their God in all things....but they never lived up to their dedication, so it forced God to turn to the Gentiles prematurely, to make up the shortfall. It was always God’s intention to include “all the nations”.

    Just as in Israel there were only those of a certain tribe who could become priests, so too only those chosen by God will make up this heavenly priesthood. (Exodus 19:5-6; Revelation 20:6)

    Yes, good questions. But since prophesy is history written in advance, God already knew what would take place in the future and he had his responses all mapped out as each situation presented itself. In scripture, it is apparent that God does not “act” but that he “reacts” or “responds” to what people with free will do.

    He did not interfere with the choices any individual made but used them to fulfill his will and purpose in various ways

    Saul is a good example...a devout Jew who was determined to stamp out any threat to Judaism as he viewed it from his own perspective. But on the road to Damascus, he had a visit from the Christ....whom he viewed as the arch enemy of his religion. Even then, he had options. Jesus did not force Saul to change his ways or his attitude....but the man responded to this visitation with humility....as a Pharisee, he had to do a complete turnaround. God simply took his zeal and redirected it positively.

    As your video confirms, Jews today do not see Jesus as anyone of importance. In fact there are those here at RF, like many others, who are convinced that he was a fraud. History could have been so different if humans had just learned to do as they were told by the one who created them. :(

    The future will be very interesting as the details of Revelation are played out.....
     
    #146 Deeje, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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  7. Pilgrim Soldier

    Pilgrim Soldier Active Member

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    Psalm 72:8 is true, the same subjects will be there before and after the seas are removed. You have misinterpreted Isaiah, the deserts will be melted to white hot lava before they blossom in the new heavens and new earth.
     
  8. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    That's EXACTLY how I read this as well.

    The Old Time Judaic Prophecies were CONDITIONAL.

    Bible Prophecy can be seen as at least 5 different types.

    1) Local Prophecy

    These would include Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh.

    2) Messianic Prophecy

    These had to do with Jesus' first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52

    "He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions Behold, my servant shall act wisely;
    he shall be high and lifted up,
    and shall be exalted.

    "As many were astonished at you—
    his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
    and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—

    "so shall he sprinkle many nations.
    Kings shall shut their mouths because of him,
    for that which has not been told them they see,
    and that which they have not heard they understand.​

    3) Day of the Lord Prophecy

    Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur calls them near / far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy, the Prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event that has to do with the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    4) Judaic Prophecy

    These are conditional prophecies that pertained to ancient Israel. If you do this, then I will do that. IF they put away the bodies of their dead kings, THEN show them the plan of the Temple.

    "If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you IF you obey the Lord your God:​

    5) Apocalyptic Prophecy

    Apocalyptic Prophesy has unique characteristics. They appear to be separated by chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation.

    I also think Matthew 24, Mark 13 and 2 Thessalonians 2 would fit the criteria of this end time type of prophecy.

    I know God knew what was going to happen.

    But Jesus had to try as hard as He could to give them an honest chance.

    My ideas here will sound wild eyed.

    And they are time sensitive.

    Because I see the heptads of Daniel 9 playing out again now.

    It's what Isaac Newton was saying in the Blue Letter Bible commentary, talking about Daniel 9 predicting, not only the first coming of Messiah, but also pointing to the second coming.

    Think about John the Baptist. Mary was running through the countryside to visit his mom Elizabeth. They knew something big was up. John B was great in the sight of the Lord. He never drank wine or other fermented drink, and he was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born. He wore a camel's hair suit and a leather belt and ate locusts for dinner.

    Jesus said that among men there was none greater than John the Baptist. But even he, John B, had to send people out to ask Jesus, "are you the one we are waiting for, or should we wait for another. So if this man who Jesus said was the greatest born of women didn't know what was going on then, it doesn't surprise me that the majority doesn't see what's going on right now.

    “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
    ‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
    make his paths straight.’”

    Early in Jesus' ministry in Marl 1:15, He also said:

    “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

    The time is fulfilled.

    What TIME was He talking about?

    The Daniel 9 Time, the 7 and 62 weeks.

    From the Artaxerxes decree in 457BC, until 27AD when Jesus is recorded reading from the Isaiah 61 scroll in the Temple declaring the favorable YEAR of the Lord, worked out to 483 years. Then the Passover count is confirmed in the middle of that last heptad when Jesus died in the middle of the week in 30AD.

    To Seal Both Vision and Prophet.

    God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets in operation, but He was giving them two different end time narratives, Everything hinged on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were chawthak, or cut off. It really was Old Israel's one last and final chance:
    • to finish the transgression,
    • to put an end to sin,
    • and to atone for iniquity,
    • to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    • to seal both vision and prophet,
    • and to anoint a most holy place.
    It was in their midst. All that they would have had to do was to accept their Messiah. It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the Old Time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written. We would have built Ezekiel's Temple sometime in the middle ages.

    The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

    Then, after some time, Lucifer in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

    But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His Second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog.

    "Know therefore and understand that
    from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the
    coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.

    This was written 2600 years ago and at that time there may not have been a second coming required. The Old Time Jews might have redeemed the 70 weeks in the first century. Jesus would have come one time only and never ascended back to heaven, making a second coming unnecessary. Daniel 9 had to be written in such a way to include both the primary visitation of Jesus AND the possibility probability of a secondary visitation in a compact and simultaneous fashion.

    "Know and understand this: From the
    time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the
    Anointed One, the ruler, comes,

    [there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

    Secondary Visitation [and] Primary Visitation

    That's probably the reason for the enigmatic language of Daniel 9. There shall be seven weeks AND sixty-two weeks. If the Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks, the Kingdom of God WAS at hand. A Second Visitation would not have been necessary.

    Lest He strike the earth with a curse of utter destruction.

    I'm keeping watch that the future might be playing out right now before our eyes.

    "Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.​

    What if they don't put away their whoring?

    What if they don't put away the bodies of their dead kings?

    Will they still be shown the plan of the Temple?

     
    #148 Dave Watchman, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  9. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Science. Just humans talking God

    O planet mass.

    Planet history. Science.

    We just live on O God planet.

    Hot dense state is thesis science as energy it's God beginnings.

    A different God thesis versus natural life on a stone planet.

    Science was titled satanism by that historic God review.

    If science conscious says I want God beginnings. Knowingly it is told consciously to be hot dense state

    Satanism. Origins of science practice.

    So when science the history reason civilizations group control status says I now own the moment. It is not gods moment. It is a satanic moment.

    A liar never stops lying as a human.

    And you are all just humans first. Never were you anything other than one human self.

    A lesson science never accepted as the group.

    Your choice liars.
     
  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    We are too.....it seems as if we are not too distant from one another in our beliefs Dave. I did not know that there were people who still followed Waldensian beliefs today. I always thought of them as the forerunners of the way back to Christ.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002205?q=waldensians&p=par

    We too see the prophesies in Daniel being played out in our day. There is a reason why Daniel was told to "seal up the book" because none of his writings would be understood fully until the "time of the end". (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)
    We believe that at this time God did indeed "cleanse, whiten and refine" a people who would take the message of his Kingdom, in the capable hands of his son, out to "the entire inhabited earth" before the foretold "end" of this present system comes. (Matthew 24:14)

    We are deep into the time of the end...no doubt about it.

    I have never had anyone tell me why God never commanded the temple to be rebuilt. Have you?
    It was the very hub of Jewish life and worship.....only destroyed because Israel fell out with God......how can they function according to the Law without it?
    Where are all the sacrifices that were commanded?....in a law that is still binding on them according to their own scripture. :shrug:
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If you measure the measurements of the New Jerusalem you will find it is impossible for such a large city to fit on Earth.
    So, we are Not talking about a literal city being on Earth, but New Jerusalem as being the seat of government. - Galatians 4:26
    As with a lot of Revelation it is written in very-vivid word pictures or visions.(16 visions)
    So, the symbolic ' waters ' of Revelation 17:1; Revelation 17:15 stands for ' people '.
    The restless 'sea of humanity' (people) as they are today - please see Isaiah 57:20; 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
    What will remain are God's people who are No more troubled by that troubled restless sea of wicked humanity.
    God's people will be subjects or citizens under Christ as king - Psalms 72:8 - from sea to sea, ( ocean to ocean ).

    God knows how many people will ' fill ' (populate) the Earth at the time of Isaiah 35th chapter.
    God never purposed Earth to be overfilled, over populated as stated at Genesis 1:28.
    Wicked people will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I don't think people would be protected from white-hot lava as Isaiah instructs to do at Isaiah 26:20.
    The heavens and earth of OLD were Not destroyed in Noah's day - 2 Peter 3:5
    The heavens and earth of NOW is for the destruction of the ungodly - 2 Peter 3:7.
    ( Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22 - Not destruction of heaven and earth )
    The NEW heavens and NEW earth means righteousness will dwell on the new heavens and new earth. - 2 Peter 3:13
    New 'governing heavens' over a new 'cleansed earthly society' of humble meek righteous people .
    Not lava, but the 'executional words' from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
     
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  13. Pilgrim Soldier

    Pilgrim Soldier Active Member

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    How did you miss 2 Peter 3:10 please read it then come back and tell me God was lying when He promised to melt the the universe
     
  14. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    No, we are not that far off.

    Not in the things that matter.

    Even though I enjoy the liberty in entertaining some experimental speculations in these end times, we still share the important common Denominator, and that Rock is Christ.

    When I saw the news of Dennis Christensen, and read the trouble of the JWs in Russia, I feel for them as true brothers. They need to get out of there. I'd rather be a Christian in China, then to be a JW in Russia.



    I can only aspire to be a Waldensian.

    I want to be like the Waldensians from the Foxe Book Days.

    [​IMG]

    Commandment keeping Christians.

    Those who keep the Commandments of God, AND have the faith of Jesus.

    They would not compromise at a time when getting caught translating, or even owning a Bible, meant death.

    If ever there were an example of the Dragon chasing the Woman, they were it.

    "The Waldenses were among the first of the peoples of Europe to obtain a translation of the Holy Scriptures. (See Appendix.) Hundreds of years before the Reformation they possessed the Bible in manuscript in their native tongue. They had the truth unadulterated, and this rendered them the special objects of hatred and persecution. They declared the Church of Rome to be the apostate Babylon of the Apocalypse, and at the peril of their lives they stood up to resist her corruptions.

    While, under the pressure of long-continued persecution, some compromised their faith, little by little yielding its distinctive principles, others held fast the truth. Through ages of darkness and apostasy there were Waldenses who denied the supremacy of Rome, who rejected image worship as idolatry, and who kept the true Sabbath.
    The Great Controversy, by Ellen G. White. Chapter 4: The Waldenses

    The image of Anna Charboniere comes from the Wiki Page at their Piedmont Easter which reached the ear of Oliver Cromwell and inspired John Milton to write the sonnet:

    On the Late Massacre in Piedmont
    Avenge, O Lord, thy slaughtered saints, whose bones
    Lie scattered on the Alpine mountains cold,
    Even them who kept thy truth so pure of old,
    When all our fathers worshiped stocks and stones;
    Forget not: in thy book record their groans
    Who were thy sheep and in their ancient fold
    Slain by the bloody Piedmontese that rolled
    Mother with infant down the rocks. Their moans
    The vales redoubled to the hills, and they
    To Heaven. Their martyred blood and ashes sow
    O'er all th' Italian fields where still doth sway
    The triple tyrant; that from these may grow
    A hundredfold, who having learnt thy way
    Early may fly the Babylonian woe.​

    No doubt about it.

    I think we are much closer than the majority realize.

    Nope.

    I don't think they can.

    I don't think they are.

    I was watching a video that had scenes from the Tel Aviv "pride" parade.

    They apparently have one of the highest ranked examples of the event.

    If only Edward G. Robinson could be here now to see it and ask: "where's your Moses now?

    They are just there now for the purpose of holding up two signs, each of the signs are pointing to the second coming of the Messiah that they will still not recognize until they can say , 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

    [​IMG]


    Waldensian symbol
    Lux lucet in tenebris
    ("A light shines in the darkness")

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  15. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    But it CAN fit INSIDE the moon.

    With each of it's 8 corners tucking nicely inside just 20 ft below the lunar surface.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    With God, all things are possible.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
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  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Our brothers are being arrested just for possessing a copy of the NWT, for praying and for preaching Christ's message. They deem our activities as "extremist" and our beliefs as dangerous for some reason. (Nothing to do with the prompting of the Russian Orthodox Church of course :rolleyes: )

    We are suffering exactly what Jesus said we would. (John 15:18-21) Our Kingdom Halls were raided by armed thugs as if we were armed and dangerous criminals. We are the most peaceful people on earth, but the Russian government can't handle the fact that we will not support their agendas by joining the military. Like China, they hate people that they cannot control....and we have only one Leader...Jesus Christ...his teachings come first...but we will never oppose the authorities. We will let God do that in his own way and time. (Romans 12:17-21)

    God has his own way of making sure that people get access to the truth. If they arrest us and put us in jail we preach to fellow inmates and gain disciples for Christ....if they put us together to stop us preaching, we encourage one another with song and prayer and Bible discussions, so either way they cannot win. Even if they execute us, our hope is not extinguished....we die with our faith intact. (Romans 8:38-39)

    I understand.....we can only admire their courage in the face of such opposition....like the many victims of the Inquisition who payed with their lives for daring to challenge the practices of "the church". How those inquisitors ever dared to claim Jesus as their Lord was betrayed by their cruel and unjust actions. When did Jesus ever advocate torture or violence?.....or conversion at the point of a sword?

    They were definitely the ones that God used in the early centuries to defy the RCC, then completely drunk with its own power. The martyrs of those days will be remembered by God in the resurrection of the faithful.
    But what about the Waldensians of today? They were such zealous preachers but you don't ever hear about them now. If Jesus said that "this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" before the foretold "end" comes, how are your people participating? (Matthew 24:14) It was part of Jesus sign concerning the "end times".

    Shamefully, Australia has a similar event every year.....not celebrating their gender equality, but gyrating in the streets pushing their sexuality.....its always about the sex. How parents can take their children to observe such disgusting behavior is beyond me. :facepalm:

    It is part and parcel of Israel's sad history....they have always been this way..."stiff necked" as God described them (Exodus 32:9-10) and always difficult when it came to obeying the commands of their God and keeping his covenant. They are still in denial about the coming of the Messiah, but seem to have overlooked the fact that once the genealogical records were destroyed in 70CE when the Roman army invaded Jerusalem and destroyed its temple, no one thereafter could prove that they were a descendant of King David or Abraham. There is no one today who could present better credentials as to being the Messiah than Jesus Christ did.
     
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  17. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    You're asking the good questions DeeJe.

    I don't think that the Waldensians were the most zealous preachers, they just wanted to worship the way they believed was correct. Without the RCC telling them how. And they would stay faithful to the point of death.

    Like this guy:

    [​IMG]

    And so, if true.

    We are at the end.

    I think we're really close.

    I think the things are happening, but are going unrecognized for what they are.

    People are walking around like in a tribulum of the Matrix, like everything is normal, but it's not.

    I get in the most hot water when I talk about this subject.

    American Christian missionary killed by tribespeople

    American Christian missionary killed by tribespeople

    And Then Shall the End Come. | UNSEALED DISCUSSION BOARD
     
  18. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    Yes it is strange you mentioned that, I saw it too.

    I used to live in downtown Toronto where the pride parade happened.

    I saw the parents sit the young little kids down at the side of the street to watch.

    They were an Asian family.

    I thought maybe they didn't understand what it was going to be about.
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

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    I have spent my whole life asking the good questions.....trouble was I couldn't find anyone who had the answers until I met Jehovah's Witnesses. And the thing that impressed me most, was that they never once said "I think" about anything. They simply opened up their Bible (I imagine like the Waldenses of old) and "showed" me what it said. If there was something that needed clarity, they allowed other scripture to provide the answer. I came to realize that everything in the Bible is related to one story......God's purpose for this earth and its inhabitants...and how he accomplishes the restoration of his original purpose, when rebels threw a spanner in the works.

    This is the John Chau you spoke about? What was it that motivated this one man to do what he did?
    In his journal entries he seems obsessed with these island people for some reason? Why pick them?
    It seems strange indeed that he alone had this strong desire but lost his life in the process....what did his death accomplish exactly?

    According to an article I found, it said....."Chau’s decision to contact the Sentinelese, who have made it clear over the years that they prefer to be left alone, was indefensibly reckless. But it was not a spontaneous act of recklessness by a dim-witted thrill-seeker; it was a premeditated act of recklessness by a fairly intelligent and thoughtful thrill-seeker who spent years preparing, understood the risks, including to his own life, and believed his purpose on Earth was to bring Christ to the island he considered “Satan’s last stronghold”.

    Who told him that? That is not what the scriptures tell us at all....this is what the apostle Paul wrote...
    "For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare."

    Chau died in vain if this is true. He did not need to risk his life to bring the gospel to anyone. God is the one who provides opportunities when they arise. I have read some incredible stories about how people have come to the truth and none of them involved martyrdom. This is in keeping with what Jesus said...."No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him"....“This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (John 6:44; 65)

    God is the one who invites people to hear his message....he does not need people to die in the process, but sometimes the reaction from the world will be harsh.

    Jesus sent his disciples out to preach to their neighbors, not necessarily to people in far away places. Surely John Chau could have found a better way to demonstrate his dedication, than to risk his life among people known to be hostile to all strangers? :shrug:

    Do you remember how God accomplished the preaching of the good news to people in far away places in the first century, when his disciples were so few at the beginning? He gave them the supernatural ability to speak foreign languages so that visitors to Jerusalem for the Festival of Pentecost could hear the Christian message in their own language. They then took the message back to their home countries and the congregations grew.
    Did John speak the Sentinelese language? Was God there blessing his efforts? Clearly not. :(

    The end times are clearly identified in scripture (Matthew 24:3-14; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

    But the Christian message was to be accomplished with Jesus' backing. (Matthew 28:19-20)

    There is no doubt that we are deep into this period that Jesus described. But Christ's rulership does not begin without hostility because the the devil is in control of this world (1 John 5:19) and the majority of earth's population are openly hostile to our message, like those Sentinelese people. They have a "leave me alone" attitude (John 15:18-21).....but that's OK.

    By our attitude and actions we tell God where we want to spend eternity......as subjects of his Kingdom....or not.

    Some things stick in your mind.....maybe to the extent that they become somewhat obsessional?
    John Chau certainly did not let go of an obsessional idea and it cost him his life. If God had wanted him there among those people, then they would have received him with a welcoming spirit.....but he knew in advance that they were hostile. Was he expecting a miracle? He didn't get one because he did what even Jesus would not do when he was tempted by the devil. He put God to the test and failed. (Luke 4:9-13)

    The heart is a treacherous thing, and he may well have been seeking to make himself the one who brought Christianity to these people on an island....whom he was told was "satan's last stronghold"? :shrug:
    How sad for all concerned....
     
  20. Pilgrim Soldier

    Pilgrim Soldier Active Member

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    Since when did Christians and JW's have anything in common. The JW's believe in a different god, they don't believe what Jesus said about who He is so they can't be friends of Christians if they don't believe in Christ.
     
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