If America went Communist...

[Laika]

I was thinking of a way to do a thread about whether people would support America going Communist. After a while, I realised that be hard to do given the sheer number of changes it would involve and could be rather boring as a sort of check list of things people oppose. There's not much pointing fighting public perceptions- so instead why not go with the flow and ask a more interesting question:

What do people think it would actually mean for the USA to go "Communist"?

Feel free to define "communism" as you like. If you think its anarchist or just a bureaucratic tryanny and "red fascism", go for it- Make your reply as deatiled or inventive as you want. It doesn't matter if you think its good or bad as It's actually more intresting to see what people think it is- given it will vary wildly- than ask if you'd support it (the answer obviously being "no" from most people).

What would change? How do you think it would affect your daily life? Would it affect your job, family, freinds or local community? Would you have to change your religious or political beliefs to fit in? How would it affect America's place in the world? Would it be good or bad for the USA overall? Would you be better or worse off?

 

[David1967]

I was thinking of a way to do a thread about whether people would support America going Communist. After a while, I realised that be hard to do given the sheer number of changes it would involve and could be rather boring as a sort of check list of things people oppose. There's not much pointing fighting public perceptions- so instead why not go with the flow and ask a more interesting question:

What do people think it would actually mean for the USA to go "Communist"?

Feel free to define "communism" as you like. If you think its anarchist or just a bureaucratic tryanny and "red fascism", go for it- Make your reply as deatiled or inventive as you want. It doesn't matter if you think its good or bad as It's actually more intresting to see what people think it is- given it will vary wildly- than ask if you'd support it (the answer obviously being "no" from most people).

What would change? How do you think it would affect your daily life? Would it affect your job, family, freinds or local community? Would you have to change your religious or political beliefs to fit in? How would it affect America's place in the world? Would it be good or bad for the USA overall? Would you be better or worse off?

We would have civil war. Period. How would it affect my life and my job? I would lose my job as I am self employed. Communists don't like self motivated people do they? Were people in the Soviet Union or East Germany, or Communist Cuba or North Korea allowed to start a business? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

There would have to be a power vacuum at both the state and federal levels, and virtually complete social and economic collapse. Then a group professing "communist" beliefs would have to prove the strongest contender to take over by force. Unlikely because there are so few who embrace any form of communism.

This would suggest either a natural catastrophe or the effects of a global war (nuclear, biological, chemical...) of unprecedented magnitude.

It would still be more likely, to my mind, that a dictatorship that embraces private businesses--likely large businesses and not individual and small businesses to take over in the US due to our more free-market culture and history.

 

[David1967]

What do you do, might I ask? Your specific job could or could not be fine.

I own a retail musical instrument store.

 

[suncowiam]

How do you define business?
Communists do not approve of other's using capital to hire people. Hiring people is inherently exploitative because the boss extracts the labor value from the worker.

I think it's also important to point out that many communists take huge disagreements with the states you listed above. Some more than others.


What do you do, might I ask? Your specific job could or could not be fine.

I get paid pretty well being an engineer. I'm very happy with my career. Never felt exploited. Might have had issues with specific bosses but overall, every company has been good to me, especially my current company.

Just saying...

Concerning the OP, if US went communist then there wouldn't be a Vietnam war, and I would still be in Vietnam.

All Koreans would all be ruled by the Kim Jong dynasty. That would suck.

US would probably collapse like Soviet Union or be another huge Cuba nation. I might be just guessing but these were and are real world outcomes.

 

[suncowiam]

It doesn't matter if you "Feel" exploited or not.
In order for a capitalist to make a profit they need to pay the worker money with less value than what they produced. The workers value is extracted.

That is not true.

Companies can make enough profit and still pay the fair market value for their employees. That could be true in some cases especially smaller businesses but let's not forget the concept of freedom here. People can simply quit their jobs and pursue other professions or goals. Is this true in communism?

 

[Revoltingest]

If I am a worker, why would I prefer that value extracted from my labor
by government or "the community" instead of a private employer?
And if I don't like my employer, where else can I go?

 

[Twilight Hue]

We would have civil war. Period. How would it affect my life and my job? I would lose my job as I am self employed. Communists don't like self motivated people do they? Were people in the Soviet Union or East Germany, or Communist Cuba or North Korea allowed to start a business? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely war.

 

[Revoltingest]

Definitely war.

Aye, at the first signs of a commie takeover, I'd be stocking up on guns & ammo.
I'd want a....

(CheyTac Intervention M200)

 

[Wu Wei]

If America went Communist many would threaten to move to Canada and states would threaten to secede..... oh wait.... that is after presidential elections.....Well, I imagine they would do the same if America went Communist too....

 

[Sunstone]

America going communist seems like an extremely remote possibility at this point. We're far more likely to go fascist if we move to an extreme.

 

[suncowiam]

America going communist seems like an extremely remote possibility at this point. We're far more likely to go fascist if we move to an extreme.

Unfortunately, I agree with you.

If Trump doesn't produce the jobs and security that so many were seeking when they voted for him, I believe Sanders or those similar to his ideals will have an edge in the next election.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Obviously, many people are not aware that Marx stated the change from Capitalism, to Socialism, and finally to Communism is a gradual change. Even Zizek has stated the Russian Revolution was probably too much, too fast. But, then again, many people probably would not know what to do with themselves or their lives if they didn't have to drudge through a 9-5 like a human cog. They need their bourgeois overlords to define a life of meaning and purpose for them.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But, then again, many people probably would not know what to do with themselves or their lives if they didn't have to drudge through a 9-5 like a human cog. They need their bourgeois overlords to define a life of meaning and purpose for them.

At this point, history has failed to convince me that a communist society involves less drudging...

 

[MD]

Why would America follow a failed political system and ideology?

 

[David1967]

Definitely war.

Personally, I would rather be dead than live as a me at worker in a hive. Didn't Marx in his book ask us to consider the ant? Nope, sorry. I value freedom. I saw a cartoon once where a Soviet father was gazing at the landscape with his young son. The Soviet father says to him, "Son, someday none of this will be yours. "

 

[David1967]

Why would America follow a failed political system and ideology?

Bad history does unfortunately tend to repeat itself.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

The reason why communism was and has been such a disaster for every state or society that has attempted it is because it's relevance went out the window around 1900.

Karl Marx's theory intended for western European states (mainly the British, French and German empires pre-WW1) to naturally revolutionize, transitioning from capitalism to communism, as a result of a proletariat uprising.

What happened instead was the rise of the middle class in these societies which, in turn, resolved the apparent class conflict.

Since then, every attempt at instilling a communist regime has been with an ulterior motive: tyranny. Communism was never going to work for the Soviets because their society was so different to the states Marx originally anticipated would evolve into communist states.

So the idea of 21st Century USA adopting any form of communism is laughable to me; especially considering a century's worth of scaring the country with the word to boot.

 

[suncowiam]

Obviously, many people are not aware that Marx stated the change from Capitalism, to Socialism, and finally to Communism is a gradual change. Even Zizek has stated the Russian Revolution was probably too much, too fast. But, then again, many people probably would not know what to do with themselves or their lives if they didn't have to drudge through a 9-5 like a human cog. They need their bourgeois overlords to define a life of meaning and purpose for them.

Are you speaking for yourself concerning the drudging?

I definitely don't drudge over my day job.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Communism in America first would require buy-in from the churches and then the military because they have to believe in it to defend it and then the technocracy: the technical people, programmers, accountants, bankers, engineers and designers. Finally we'd need something that would prevent oligarchies from forming -- some kind of new development that hasn't ever appeared before. It might be...an AI computer or an immortal philosopher king or something like that.

Objections: Communism was originally adopted in Asia where starvation was the one thing all the disparate kinds of people shared in common. Problems here are more obscure or more diverse. Starvation is not foremost on people's minds, and ideologies are thought to be divisive rather than unifying.

Communism wherever it is tried so far places a lot of responsibility upon a small select group, and this tends to make that group become a new higher class. Instead of pure communism something else appears that strives to look like communism but lacks its pure essence. Its like a tree with rot in the center.