If Adam had not sinned.

[waitasec]

First....stop to consider...
what would Man be, without the knowledge of good and evil?

it's an impossible thing to ask of...
so why ask of it?

More of the same on Day Six?

The Garden event was a scene of manipulation...not creation.
The body of Man was altered.
THEN, the spirit of Man was altered.
This would change the course of Man.

are you saying the body was altered because a choice was presented which was the cause of the domino effect?

The acquisition of knowledge was a 'jump' in what we are.

That Man is mortal, was installed on Day Six.
That portion was not removed.
That Man become aware of his soul, and realizes there is consequence
in the after life.....is correct.

we are the way we are and this metaphor sort of explains that
but to consider we were at one time not the way we are now implies an evolutionary process...within the realm of reasoning (our brains) at least.

Knowing you can die in flesh is one thing.
Knowing you can die in spirit is something else.

i agree.
people die of the 'spirit' even when they are physically alive...

 

[Thief]

it's an impossible thing to ask of...
so why ask of it?

Not impossible....it's obvious.
Man was an animal at one point or another.
Without higher reasonings...he would still be animal.
(that wasn't hard ...now was it?)

are you saying the body was altered because a choice was presented which was the cause of the domino effect?

No...the body was altered to hold a 'better spirit'.
The body was altered...reasoning ability increased.
To make it stick...a choice was offered.
THEN the 'domino effect'....we call society.

we are the way we are and this metaphor sort of explains that
but to consider we were at one time not the way we are now implies an evolutionary process...within the realm of reasoning (our brains) at least.

Evolution....Day Six.
The Garden experiment...after Day Seven.

i agree.
people die of the 'spirit' even when they are physically alive...

And so it was said.....
'Let the dead bury the dead.'

 

[waitasec]

Not impossible....it's obvious.
Man was an animal at one point or another.
Without higher reasonings...he would still be animal.
(that wasn't hard ...now was it?)

animals can tell the difference...
they have the capacity to rationalize

No...the body was altered to hold a 'better spirit'.
The body was altered...reasoning ability increased.
To make it stick...a choice was offered.
THEN the 'domino effect'....we call society.

ok

Evolution....Day Six.
The Garden experiment...after Day Seven.

a cruel experiment indeed...so much needless intentional suffering, wouldn't you say?

And so it was said.....
'Let the dead bury the dead.'

interestingly enough, it's the living doing the burying

 

[Thief]

animals can tell the difference...
they have the capacity to rationalize

Conversation with animals is somewhat lacking.
They don't rationalize.

a cruel experiment indeed...so much needless intentional suffering, wouldn't you say?

Nay....leaving Man ignorant of potential spiritual life would be cruel.
Knowledge first......then wisdom.

interestingly enough, it's the living doing the burying

Your last line is a reversal of something you said earlier.

 

[waitasec]

Your last line is a reversal of something you said earlier.

what was that?

 

[waitasec]

Conversation with animals is somewhat lacking.
They don't rationalize.

animals converse with each other...why do you insist in putting mankind in the center of it all...?

Nay....leaving Man ignorant of potential spiritual life would be cruel.
Knowledge first......then wisdom.

no, i'm talking about subjecting ignorant man to suffering, that is cruel

 

[Thief]

animals converse with each other...why do you insist in putting mankind in the center of it all...?

Animals do not converse as we do.
Are you seriously comparing human intellect to animal?

no, i'm talking about subjecting ignorant man to suffering, that is cruel

And dumping a head load of all knowledge would be what in this world?

I find my fellowman disliking me....and resentfully regarding me as a 'know it all'.
(actually got wrote up by a foreman for such offense.)

Still not buying into the life after death thing?.....are you?

 

[waitasec]

Animals do not converse as we do.
Are you seriously comparing human intellect to animal?

no i am acknowledging it...mankind is not the center of it all

And dumping a head load of all knowledge would be what in this world?

well so far dentistry, cure for polio etc...

I find my fellowman disliking me....and resentfully regarding me as a 'know it all'.
(actually got wrote up by a foreman for such offense.)

Still not buying into the life after death thing?.....are you?

sorry about that...

nope...
but i still get a lot out of our discourses....:rainbow1:

 

[Thief]

no i am acknowledging it...mankind is not the center of it all

well so far dentistry, cure for polio etc...



sorry about that...

nope...
but i still get a lot out of our discourses....:rainbow1:

So back to topic...where are we now?
That Man is not the highest form of life on this planet?

Man is still the animal he was before the Garden event?
I think not.

 

[waitasec]

So back to topic...where are we now?
That Man is not the highest form of life on this planet?

nope, not at all. mankind has acquired an undue sense of importance

Man is still the animal he was before the Garden event?
I think not.

i can't answer that, i don't think the garden event ever happened.

 

[anthony55]

Titus 1:1-2 -



Titus 1:


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.

So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?

2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,

1 jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son

Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?

 

[waitasec]

Titus 1:1-2 -



Titus 1:


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.

So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?

2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,

1 jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son

Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?

my question is, why promise something to no one?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Titus 1:1-2 -
Titus 1:
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.
So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?
2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,
1 jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
5:
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son
Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?

I am surprised anthony to see you have asked questions?
Is there a reason you feel free to ask for answers from others but do not answer questions such as the questions I asked?

Before the 'world' began, and before the 'earth' began', are two [2] different words.

At Genesis [3v15] God made a promise in that first prophecy before the world of mankind [Adam's children] began. Not before the earth began.

Jesus blames the religious leaders at Matt [23v35] that upon them all the righteous blood shed on earth going back to righteous Abel is upon them.

-Rev 18v24

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You tell me, I am not here to answer all your dumb questions. I am making my points and can defend them from scripture. I am not chasing all your dumb questions all around, provide your own beliefs and see if you can defend them from your sources or you do not know how to do that ?:no:

What was dumb [unintelligent] about waitasec's question about Jesus physical body disappearing ?

 

[Thief]

nope, not at all. mankind has acquired an undue sense of importance

So animals and Man are the same?...no difference?...really?

i can't answer that, i don't think the garden event ever happened.

Now you're stuck.

Participating in a topic you don't believe in.
How can you have an opinion for an event you claim did not happen?

This topic...if Adam had not sinned....
hinges on only two possibilities....both include Adam....as real.

 

[rusra02]

If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?

No. Genesis 1:28 shows God created man to live forever on earth. "God blessed [Adam and Eve] and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection ...every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
Thus, God gave man a perfect start in a beautiful garden home that would serve as a model for extending to the ends of the earth. That was and is God's purpose, and it will be accomplished. Thus we can live forever on earth if we keep God's commands, unlike Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and lost paradise. (Matthew 5:5, Psalms 37:29)

 

[Thief]

No. Genesis 1:28 shows God created man to live forever on earth. "God blessed [Adam and Eve] and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection ...every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
Thus, God gave man a perfect start in a beautiful garden home that would serve as a model for extending to the ends of the earth. That was and is God's purpose, and it will be accomplished. Thus we can live forever on earth if we keep God's commands, unlike Adam and Eve who disobeyed God and lost paradise. (Matthew 5:5, Psalms 37:29)

That is a gross misread.

Go back and read it again.

God created all things that walk on Day Six....including Man.

No names....no law....no restrictions....
'go forth be fruitful and multiply...dominate all things.'

Man as a species.

Chapter Two is not a retelling of Chapter One.
Chapter Two comes AFTER Day Seven.

 

[anthony55]

my question is, why promise something to no one?

Who said something was promised to no one ? Did I post that ? Another dumb question.

Did not I post 1 Jn 2:25 ? Maybe I need to post it again. 1 Jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

 

[anthony55]

What was dumb [unintelligent] about waitasec's question about Jesus physical body disappearing ?

It had nothing to do with, the subject that I am posting about. And don't ask me again,or you will be ignored, stick with the topic. I am not going to be answering a bunch of questions, this is not a question answering session for me. I am providing biblical facts of what I believe, and defend them with scripture, if you cannot deal with that , fine. I dont mind questions that I feel that are related to the subject and what I posted, but for now on, all questions I perceive as unrelated, they will be ignored. Now defend what you believe if you can.

 

[waitasec]

Who said something was promised to no one ? Did I post that ? Another dumb question.

Did not I post 1 Jn 2:25 ? Maybe I need to post it again. 1 Jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

so we existed before the world began?