If a god created the universe...

[Brian2]

Interesting. How do you think an all powerful God who created the universe, will himself to be limited and bound within the laws of his own creation? Can he will himself to be less powerful?

He could become a man and live and die as a man.
But yes, even though the Son of God did this, God was still in control.

 

[firedragon]

He could become a man and live and die as a man.
But yes, even though the Son of God did this, God was still in control.

Why?

 

[Hold]

Are you suggesting our morals evolved over time?
If so do you think the bible helped those morals evolve?

I think the Bible influenced the Jews and Christians however I think most of those Commandments just kind of formalized rules already offered by Hebrew leaders. Do morals evolve? Just look at the divorce rate and the last fifty years of abortion rights in the USA. These examples are departures from former practices.Divorce rules will probably continue to be more liberalized considering the pressure to improve women's rights. The most valuable asset in society,women, are treated as second class citizens in my opinion.

 

[Brian2]

Why?

Why was God still in control?
Because the Son is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Father and Holy Spirit did not become part of the creation.

 

[firedragon]

Why was God still in control?
Because the Son is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Father and Holy Spirit did not become part of the creation.

I dont think when I asked the original question it was specific to Christianity, but you have brought it in. No problem.

Why does God have to become a man, clip his ability, powers etc?

Is he powerless to get what ever he has to get done as he is?

 

[InChrist]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

In reference to the biblical God, according to the scriptures, God is an eternal Spiritual Being outside of physical creation, the One who made the universe. Therefore, God would not be bound by the physical laws that creation is bound by.

 

[Trailblazer]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

According to my beliefs God is not bound by anything. The laws of creation only apply to creation.

 

[Trailblazer]

So then said god isnt all powerful enough to bypass the laws?

I think God can bypass the natural laws. That is why miracles are possible.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Laws of the universe wouldn't apply for a really powerful God, I don't think, unless said God chooses to be bound by them.

One problem though is when God gives people ethical rules and commandments, then doesn't follow them himself, though. It creates what's called a Double Standard, and a "Do as I say but not as I do" situation. Of course, the religious person may choose to ignore it as they wish. But it doesn't mean that under modern definitions, it doesn't fit the bill.

IMHO, if God created the universe, he would be outside the universe and therefore not bound by the laws of physics. However, since he went out of his way to determine these laws of physics, I seriously doubt he would make a regular habit of breaking them.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you not believe God gave commandments of how humans should morally behave?

No, why would I? Humans create laws, and often use appeal to authority fallacies by claiming they are divine in origin. Morality is subjective of course, including religious morality. That is why religious morals so often reflect the ignorance, bigotry and prejudice of the human cultures and epochs from which they originate. If they were from a perfectly moral deity, it seems unlikely they'd have dated so badly.

Most people view buying and owning other humans as immoral now, as they would stoning unruly or disrespectful children to death.

 

[Sheldon]

I think God can bypass the natural laws. That is why miracles are possible.

There is no objective evidence miracles are possible. Assuming there are such claims that aren't outright chicanery, which many of them have been demonstrated to be, see the canonisation of Mother Theresa as a perfect example, a miracle would still just be an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. A so called occurrence we cannot yet explain, assigned to a supernatural or divine cause.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, why would I? Humans create laws, and often use appeal to authority fallacies by claiming they are divine in origin. Morality is subjective of course, including religious morality. That is why religious morals so often reflect the ignorance, bigotry and prejudice of the human cultures and epochs from which they originate. If they were from a perfectly moral deity, it seems unlikely they'd have dated so badly.

Most people view buying and owning other humans as immoral now, as they would stoning unruly or disrespectful children to death.

The question was to @Stonetree

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no objective evidence miracles are possible.

but that does not mean miracles are not possible.

 

[Sheldon]

The question was to @Stonetree

Does it matter? This is a public debate forum no?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Does it matter? This is a public debate forum no?

Does not matter to me, I just answered who I originally put the question to.

 

[Brian2]

I dont think when I asked the original question it was specific to Christianity, but you have brought it in. No problem.

Why does God have to become a man, clip his ability, powers etc?

Is he powerless to get what ever he has to get done as he is?

The short answer would be:
Sin results in death.
Justice requires that there is a death to cover the price of our sins.
Sinful man cannot die for all sin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he can only die for his own sin.
God is the only one who is completely good and would not sin as a man and so God, in the person of the Son of God, was sent to become a man and die for our sins.
Mercy and justice combined in the one person to bring peace between God and humanity.
Jesus asked His Father to take the cross away if it was possible but He did not, so I presume the death of Jesus was a necessity for our redemption.

 

[firedragon]

The short answer would be:
Sin results in death.
Justice requires that there is a death to cover the price of our sins.
Sinful man cannot die for all sin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he can only die for his own sin.
God is the only one who is completely good and would not sin as a man and so God, in the person of the Son of God, was sent to become a man and die for our sins.
Mercy and justice combined in the one person to bring peace between God and humanity.
Jesus asked His Father to take the cross away if it was possible but He did not, so I presume the death of Jesus was a necessity for our redemption.

So God is so powerless he cant do what he wants without becoming a man and all of that you believe. He is not all powerful. He cant forgive. A ransom has to be paid to no one knows who, but according to early church fathers the ransom was paid to satan.

You see the issue? God is so powerless to forgive he has to come down himself to earth, become a man, live for 33 years or what ever the actual number of years were, die, cry out to himself, be killed etc etc etc and pay a ransom to the devil (according to the church fathers) in order to forgive.

Really??

 

[osgart]

If God is bound by nature willingly, or unwillingly then that falls short of being God.

Unless there's a good reason for God to bind himself.

Why are humans bound to nature in vast dark void from a God perspective?

Then it's that God is a lesser being than almighty, or good reasons exist.

 

[Brian2]

So God is so powerless he cant do what he wants without becoming a man and all of that you believe. He is not all powerful. He cant forgive. A ransom has to be paid to no one knows who, but according to early church fathers the ransom was paid to satan.

You see the issue? God is so powerless to forgive he has to come down himself to earth, become a man, live for 33 years or what ever the actual number of years were, die, cry out to himself, be killed etc etc etc and pay a ransom to the devil (according to the church fathers) in order to forgive.

Really??

What was necessary was necessary. It was not as if it was an after thought. We are told that it was planned before the foundation of the earth. God knew what would happen.
Satan may have thought that he had God in an impossible position. Satan may have figured out what God would need to do and that he could make God look worse by getting Jesus to sin. I don't know.
There was nothing that Satan was paid that made him any richer. The prophecy was that the seed of the woman would crush his head (Gen 3:15) He gained as much as Egypt did when God redeemed Israel from Egypt, it was destroyed.
It would not be righteous for God to just forgive without justice being served.
Psalm 85:10 Love and faithfulness meet together;
righteousness and peace kiss each other.
11 Faithfulness springs forth from the earth,
and righteousness looks down from heaven.
God's faithful servant, the Holy One of Israel, brought faith in the God of Abraham to the whole earth, or those who believe anyway.
God showed His love for humanity and His creation.
God is the only redeemer and saviour and the glory goes to Him alone.
God achieved it all alone and shows mercy in the way that was necessary for all the bases to be covered.

 

[Brian2]

If God is bound by nature willingly, or unwillingly then that falls short of being God.

Unless there's a good reason for God to bind himself.

Why are humans bound to nature in vast dark void from a God perspective?

Then it's that God is a lesser being than almighty, or good reasons exist.

God's nature of love and truth and righteousness were the good reasons.