1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured If a god created the universe...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,826
    Ratings:
    +6,122
    Religion:
    It exists
    If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

    Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    Laws of the universe wouldn't apply for a really powerful God, I don't think, unless said God chooses to be bound by them.

    One problem though is when God gives people ethical rules and commandments, then doesn't follow them himself, though. It creates what's called a Double Standard, and a "Do as I say but not as I do" situation. Of course, the religious person may choose to ignore it as they wish. But it doesn't mean that under modern definitions, it doesn't fit the bill.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,559
    Ratings:
    +1,080
    He would not be bound. He is not bound. In my opinion at least.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    The next argument up may be that God knows better / is morally superior, so can do things ethically we can't. However, the "morally superior" argument doesn't really work with the way the Bible depicts God.

    It could be that he knows better, but I haven't seen where the Bible really explains how and what God knows better than humans, that escapes having to follow his own rules while we have to follow them.
     
  5. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    695
    Ratings:
    +666
    Religion:
    VAsudev-KRshNa's disciple ; Open Hindu
    No, it can't be. I agree that the laws cannot apply to the evident God Brahman but they do apply to IT'S/HIS/HER nature. It is the nature of Brahman to evolve and transform and form and dismantle what was formed. It has an orderly nature.
    Just like
    we have a biology.


    People keep talking about "nature" but they forget that NATURE is not something stand-alone. (athiests)

    Nor is it right to say there is this being and then it created "nature" (thiests ex-nihilo)

    It is neither, The nature is intrinsic to Being.

    It is Brahman's nature. That said god's nature, who transcends that nature. Laws are for ITS nature.

    Like we say about humans -- temperament, aptitude, tendency and nature.
    XYZ has a very helpful nature.
    It is ABC's natural tendency to __________.

    The observable nature is Brahman's nature - or the said god's nature in the OP.
    Not just "nature" in vacuum without association, possessive noun.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,559
    Ratings:
    +1,080
    Do you think this has ever happened? And if so do you have an example of it happening?
     
  7. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,826
    Ratings:
    +6,122
    Religion:
    It exists
    So are you suggesting said god might be like politicians :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. Stonetree

    Stonetree Bored of Directors
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Messages:
    665
    Ratings:
    +483
    Religion:
    Roman Catholic
    Since Lain is tuned in I can't expose God to my theories......maybe later (how many years since the big bang and a life form with morals...?)
     
  9. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    I'm just arguing based on what the Bible says at face value as the OP mentioned "God" and generally that means the Abrahamic God unless talking to a person who reads/follows the Quran, which is still the Abrahamic God, but then we'd have to discuss the Quran. But, since we can probably establish the way the OP framed the question, we're talking the Bible and the Abrahamic God, we can go with the Bible...

    And the Bible says God gave Moses the commandments. Though we can still argue whether they were meant for the Israelites or all people.
     
  10. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,826
    Ratings:
    +6,122
    Religion:
    It exists
    Thou shall not kill.
    Didn't said god send a plague(the angel of death) to kill the first born sons at one time.

    I remember seeing that in the movie the "Ten Commandments" when I was young.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,559
    Ratings:
    +1,080
    Sure, the God of Moses. And who the Laws were for is of no matter, any example would do.
     
  12. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    God said thou shalt not kill, but sent the plagues on Egypt. And before that, there was the Flood.

    He's like Luke Skywalker from Star Wars, in a way - he has an extraordinary "kill" count, more than the villains pretty much, but people still see him as the hero.
     
  13. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,559
    Ratings:
    +1,080
    I need to re-watch that film soon, I loved that movie. My mom saw it when she was a kid.

    Either way, such a Law does not forbid all killing as is commonly known. But most importantly, I do not think God can violate any Law given to humans because He doesn't do human acts. Same to @Snow White.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    Hmmm... what about when he wrestled with Jacob? That wasn't a human act?
     
  15. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,826
    Ratings:
    +6,122
    Religion:
    It exists
    I liked the movie when I was young. Still do today 50+ years later.
     
  16. Stonetree

    Stonetree Bored of Directors
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Messages:
    665
    Ratings:
    +483
    Religion:
    Roman Catholic
    Does science tell us it's been more than 13 billion years since the universe came into being? So this God waited so long for this so special species (of course we happen to be sooo special God created this expansive universe but humans are the real pearl) to be His purpose of creation.
     
  17. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14,954
    Ratings:
    +12,009
    Religion:
    New follower of Wicca
    Actually, science and archaeology kind of show us we aren't so special and are just animals with rich vocabularies.
     
  18. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,559
    Ratings:
    +1,080
    Seems like a divine act to me, since it is a divine person doing it. If it's God at least, which is a contention of interpretation beyond my strength right now (others say it was just a spirit that represented God, which has interesting implications on it's own).
     
  19. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,826
    Ratings:
    +6,122
    Religion:
    It exists
    And hurtful feelings :(
     
  20. Stonetree

    Stonetree Bored of Directors
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Messages:
    665
    Ratings:
    +483
    Religion:
    Roman Catholic
    Could it be that the covenant made by Moses was a scam just to get the Hebrews to follow him?
     
Loading...