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Identity politics, the snake devouring itself.

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
The oppression olympics of the politcal world. Identity politics is tearing the U.S apart, by dividing and seperating everyone into as many small categories as possible, so that we are disconnected from each other and easily subdued. Here this article is evidence of how identity politics turns in on itself because some straight black men reject its ideals.

http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com...e-the-white-people-of-black-people-1814157214

Claiming that straight black men are privilieged the same as white people in general. Which is true, but not in the way article portrays. Because its also true of black women, gay, white, brown etc all have the same privilege. That privilege is as an american citizens granted to us under the constitution.

Obviously, I do not subscribe to critical race theory/privilege based on ethnicity or any of the other cultural marxism and social justice bull crap. But it is a disease in this country that has infected academia, corporations, and attempting to gain office in our governments.

Berkeley the home of free speech is particularly infected as Libertarian and Conservative speakers have been shut down recently, being denied the right to speak to students on campus that have invited them there.

We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Obviously, I do not subscribe to critical race theory/privilege based on ethnicity or any of the other cultural marxism and social justice bull crap. But it is a disease in this country that has infected academia, corporations, and attempting to gain office in our governments.

We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.

You are lumping together a great variety of concepts there into a single thing. I think this might be a conceptual mistake.

There is a difference between descriptive social theories that attempt make sense or explain the empirical reality of social disparities, and the tactics of political action.

You can harp on the efficacy or wisdom of prescriptive political actions and probably find easy agreement with a segment of RF (including myself to some extent), but if you want it either deny disparities exist or deny the social/economic theories that attempt to explain them, you're going to have to do more work. . . Perhaps provide an alternate explanation.
 

Wirey

Fartist
The oppression olympics of the politcal world. Identity politics is tearing the U.S apart, by dividing and seperating everyone into as many small categories as possible, so that we are disconnected from each other and easily subdued. Here this article is evidence of how identity politics turns in on itself because some straight black men reject its ideals.

http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com...e-the-white-people-of-black-people-1814157214

Claiming that straight black men are privilieged the same as white people in general. Which is true, but not in the way article portrays. Because its also true of black women, gay, white, brown etc all have the same privilege. That privilege is as an american citizens granted to us under the constitution.

Obviously, I do not subscribe to critical race theory/privilege based on ethnicity or any of the other cultural marxism and social justice bull crap. But it is a disease in this country that has infected academia, corporations, and attempting to gain office in our governments.

Berkeley the home of free speech is particularly infected as Libertarian and Conservative speakers have been shut down recently, being denied the right to speak to students on campus that have invited them there.

We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.

That reminds me: I'm out of Red Bull.
 
Worth a re-up:

Privilege: The Left's Original Sin



The concepts of Original Sin and privilege are identical except that they operate in different moral universes. In familiar religions, Original Sin is something you're born with. It's something you can't escape. It's something you can't really do anything about - except be ashamed. It's something you should confess and try to cleanse yourself of. It's something that requires forgiveness, atonement, penitence, and work. It's something, if you take it to heart, for which you will browbeat others.

For many contemporary left-situated activists, privilege occupies the same role in a religion of contemporary identity politics. There is no greater sin than having been born an able-bodied, straight, white male who identifies as a man but isn't deeply sorry for this utterly unintentional state of affairs...

Where the traditionally religious elevate God, then angels, then the saints, and then the rest of us, these identitarians hold sacred a hierarchical order of intrinsic societal advantages and disadvantages - not as they are, but as they are spelled out in the academic language of critical theories of race and gender.

There is, however, one troubling difference between privilege and sin. While we can love the sinner but hate the sin, we seem poorly equipped to love the privileged, unless merely as mascots and objects of envy. Sinners have been born into a struggle against a fatal flaw; the privileged are just born flawed - unwholesomely lucky and blithely ungrateful. The sinner is born flawed and thus writes his own undoing. The sinner, then, in being unable to help it, is a wretch, and behind all contempt for him there is pity. Not so with the privileged. The very word privileged almost makes you find its target contemptible. The privileged don't hinder themselves; they hinder you. A sinner can be redeemed; the privileged must be taken down a notch.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.

Suggesting that the Press and Universities are elites and vested interests that are alien and hostile to the working people, that they are engaged in a propaganda campaign to indoctrinate the people with a false consciousness to perpetuate exploitation and oppression to serve the interests of the ruling class is Marxist sociology.

If you want to "eliminate" an idea, you're going to have to use the power of the state to do so. There is no way that the free competition in the marketplace of ideas will "eliminate" an idea in its entirety if it has some value (even by expressing the interests of a particular group). competition can marginalise it- yes- but not eliminate it. You are in danger of using "freedom" merely as a cover to assert a different kind of "politically correct" dictatorship- only one you agree with.

I'm not saying that's your intention, but you have to be careful because the "how" is much more important than the "why". If you want to preserve freedom but use methods than diminish it, its not going to be a sustainable position.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The oppression olympics of the politcal world. Identity politics is tearing the U.S apart, by dividing and seperating everyone into as many small categories as possible, so that we are disconnected from each other and easily subdued. Here this article is evidence of how identity politics turns in on itself because some straight black men reject its ideals.

http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com...e-the-white-people-of-black-people-1814157214

Claiming that straight black men are privilieged the same as white people in general. Which is true, but not in the way article portrays. Because its also true of black women, gay, white, brown etc all have the same privilege. That privilege is as an american citizens granted to us under the constitution.

Obviously, I do not subscribe to critical race theory/privilege based on ethnicity or any of the other cultural marxism and social justice bull crap. But it is a disease in this country that has infected academia, corporations, and attempting to gain office in our governments.

Berkeley the home of free speech is particularly infected as Libertarian and Conservative speakers have been shut down recently, being denied the right to speak to students on campus that have invited them there.

We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.


I just see it more as a ploy dreamed up by the ruling class in order to keep the lower classes divided against each other over various issues. It's not real "Marxism" nor does it even come from the left, since it minimizes class differences and economic disparities. All this "identity politics" is just a lot of contrived hokum to keep the masses confused and off-balance. It's the cheapskate's way of attempting to give the appearance of "social justice" without actually having to pay for it.

It's not surprising that so many people have fallen for it, but this is how the Democrats and liberals have been able to pander to the lower classes without actually having to give them anything tangible to improve their standard of living.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
You are lumping together a great variety of concepts there into a single thing. I think this might be a conceptual mistake.

No, a great deal of various tactics are being employed at once. In hopes one or more will stick. Some are hybrids of the original ideologies, intersectionality has chained most of it together. A lot of the members of the groups are also members of other groups. Bamn and Antifa is the best example of this.

I'm not saying that's your intention, but you have to be careful because the "how" is much more important than the "why". If you want to preserve freedom but use methods than diminish it, its not going to be a sustainable position.

It easy because there already is laws in place to counter these groups. Some are just not enforced, but I am sure thid will change soon.

I just see it more as a ploy dreamed up by the ruling class in order to keep the lower classes divided against each other over various issues. It's not real "Marxism" nor does it even come from the left, since it minimizes class differences and economic disparities. All this "identity politics" is just a lot of contrived hokum to keep the masses confused and off-balance. It's the cheapskate's way of attempting to give the appearance of "social justice" without actually having to pay for it.

Social Justice is just the tactic they use to indoctrinate usually young people. The Russians call these kids "useful idiots". Here an ex KGB who defected explains what his job was.


Also this was found after the first Berkeley riot.

20170921_105205.png


The threat is real, their intentions are clear.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Social Justice is just the tactic they use to indoctrinate usually young people.

As there is no longer a Soviet Union to indoctrinate Social Justice via KGB tactics, can I ask who you think is trying to indoctrinate young people?

It easy because there already is laws in place to counter these groups. Some are just not enforced, but I am sure thid will change soon.

I have a vague memory of a user saying that anti-communist laws had to be revived in the US. I think it was you but I'm not sure. Am I right in thinking that is what you are suggesting?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Social Justice is just the tactic they use to indoctrinate usually young people. The Russians call these kids "useful idiots". Here an ex KGB who defected explains what his job was.

Yeah, but considering how things are turning out these days, they didn't do a very good job. Nowadays, it's the liberals who see Russia as the "evil empire." They may still be "useful idiots," and they may have been indoctrinated, but not by the Russians.

Also this was found after the first Berkeley riot.

View attachment 18871

The threat is real, their intentions are clear.

That's just a scribbling from an unknown source. Could be anything. Could be from an agent provocateur. They liked to stir things up and spur dissension and confusion.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Nowadays, it's the liberals who see Russia as the "evil empire."
You might check with the western Europeans and see how they feel about this, especially after they've been screwed around with by Putin & Co.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
As there is no longer a Soviet Union to indoctrinate Social Justice via KGB tactics, can I ask who you think is trying to indoctrinate young people?

The original victims of Yuri's conditioning were in the 40's and 50's. They themselves went on to become professors to indoctrinate youth, rinse, repeat. Nobody in particular is using it against us now. As nobody was expecting Gorbechev, to dissolve the U.S.S.R. Had he not dissolved the U.S.S.R, we would probably would probably be getting invaded right now.

A pebble was tossed down the hill 60 years ago, meant to cause a fundamental destabilization, and now it is a huge avalanche hitting us all these years later.

I have a vague memory of a user saying that anti-communist laws had to be revived in the US. I think it was you but I'm not sure. Am I right in thinking that is what you are suggesting?

Not revived. Just not enforced.Communist Control Act of 1954 - Wikipedia

That's just a scribbling from an unknown source. Could be anything. Could be from an agent provocateur. They liked to stir things up and spur dissension and confusion.



This was taken after the first Berkeley riot when Milo went to speak the first time. Almost nobody knew who Antifa was, let alone what they stood for. That picture actually helped shine a light on them. Its authenticity is legit.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
In the meantime right wing terrorists are being aided and abetted by right wing political correctness propaganda being bought and paid for. They are attacking Constitutional freedom of the press by demonizing the free press, the freedom to advocate for policies if you are not rich and so forth. How long until right wing militias start shooting? They're armed and ready to do so. And the one thing they can't stand is that the left is starting to respond to their violence with just a bit of their own medicine. That is driving them crazy.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You might check with the western Europeans and see how they feel about this, especially after they've been screwed around with by Putin & Co.

Any Western Europeans here have any comment?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This was taken after the first Berkeley riot when Milo went to speak the first time. Almost nobody knew who Antifa was, let alone what they stood for. That picture actually helped shine a light on them. Its authenticity is legit.

It could be that...or maybe not. There's no way to determine who wrote it or whether it's authentic. Even if no one knew who Antifa was (and I'm not sure that's true), most people would have recognized the hammer-and-sickle symbol of communism.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
It could be that...or maybe not. There's no way to determine who wrote it or whether it's authentic. Even if no one knew who Antifa was (and I'm not sure that's true), most people would have recognized the hammer-and-sickle symbol of communism.

Well there was only 1 group at the 1st Berkeley riot. It was not until the 2nd battle of Berkeley did Based Stickman show up. After that the Proud Boys and eventually white identitarians in the famous porn star who got punched incident.

So there was not even anyone organized against Antifa at that time. Let alone someone trying to false flag them. They are quite proud to be who they are, and do not attempt to hide it.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Well there was only 1 group at the 1st Berkeley riot. It was not until the 2nd battle of Berkeley did Based Stickman show up. After that the Proud Boys and eventually white identitarians in the famous porn star who got punched incident.

So there was not even anyone organized against Antifa at that time. Let alone someone trying to false flag them. They are quite proud to be who they are, and do not attempt to hide it.

Antifa has been around for a while, and they've been known to the authorities.

Nobody has to be organized just to write a note. Any individual can do that. It could very well be one person from Antifa giving his/her opinion, but not necessarily reflective of others in the group. Or it could be just some sick individual who's not connected to anything and just likes to mess with people.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Antifa has been around for a while, and they've been known to the authorities.

Nobody has to be organized just to write a note. Any individual can do that. It could very well be one person from Antifa giving his/her opinion, but not necessarily reflective of others in the group. Or it could be just some sick individual who's not connected to anything and just likes to mess with people.

Excuses excuses
Antifa has been around for a while, and they've been known to the authorities.

Nobody has to be organized just to write a note. Any individual can do that. It could very well be one person from Antifa giving his/her opinion, but not necessarily reflective of others in the group. Or it could be just some sick individual who's not connected to anything and just likes to mess with people.

That is what yout suggesting though. That someone has false flagged them and trying to pin a bad rep on them. The writing is on the wall! Literally haha! Ignore it if you want. /shrug
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
The oppression olympics of the politcal world. Identity politics is tearing the U.S apart, by dividing and seperating everyone into as many small categories as possible, so that we are disconnected from each other and easily subdued. Here this article is evidence of how identity politics turns in on itself because some straight black men reject its ideals.

http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com...e-the-white-people-of-black-people-1814157214

Claiming that straight black men are privilieged the same as white people in general. Which is true, but not in the way article portrays. Because its also true of black women, gay, white, brown etc all have the same privilege. That privilege is as an american citizens granted to us under the constitution.

Obviously, I do not subscribe to critical race theory/privilege based on ethnicity or any of the other cultural marxism and social justice bull crap. But it is a disease in this country that has infected academia, corporations, and attempting to gain office in our governments.

Berkeley the home of free speech is particularly infected as Libertarian and Conservative speakers have been shut down recently, being denied the right to speak to students on campus that have invited them there.

We don't have to agree with each other, we don't have to like each other, but we all can agree that identity politics/cultural marxism/social justice/intersectionality/critical race theory/political correctness/whatever you want to call it. Is a blight that must be eliminated.
I guess so, there is no pleasing anyone in that scenario, identity politics is an issue when either sides refuse to compromise. If they keep doing that they are going to get fired. We can only go so long with a deadlocked government it's ridiculous, there is work that needs to be done, and not just barely getting the next yearly budget through last minute as the only real thing they do.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I guess so, there is no pleasing anyone in that scenario, identity politics is an issue when either sides refuse to compromise. If they keep doing that they are going to get fired. We can only go so long with a deadlocked government it's ridiculous, there is work that needs to be done, and not just barely getting the next yearly budget through last minute as the only real thing they do.

Bingo! You nailed it right on the head!

As previously left unsaid, the far right is guilty of identity politic as well. Not everyone exposed to identity politics becomes far left extremist. Instead they became far right extremist. The Richard Spencers and Jared Taylors who promote white identitarianism or supremacy. As with Newtons law, in politics every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

All of identity politics is cancer. The only cure is to eradicate it entirely. We got to deal with the current situation which means we all (left, centrist and the right) work to end the far left and far right extremism.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
No, a great deal of various tactics are being employed at once. In hopes one or more will stick. Some are hybrids of the original ideologies, intersectionality has chained most of it together. A lot of the members of the groups are also members of other groups. Bamn and Antifa is the best example of this.

Social Justice is just the tactic they use to indoctrinate usually young people. The Russians call these kids "useful idiots".

Also this was found after the first Berkeley riot.

View attachment 18871

The threat is real, their intentions are clear.

If your perspective requires a vast conspiracy of scientists, educators, covert foreign operatives, politicians, and shadowy government agencies. . . All apparently under the serive of a single nefarious ideology. . . Then you've probably gone off the deep end.

I just see it more as a ploy dreamed up by the ruling class in order to keep the lower classes divided against each other over various issues. It's not real "Marxism" nor does it even come from the left, since it minimizes class differences and economic disparities. All this "identity politics" is just a lot of contrived hokum to keep the masses confused and off-balance. It's the cheapskate's way of attempting to give the appearance of "social justice" without actually having to pay for it.

Ditto.

It's not surprising that so many people have fallen for it, but this is how the Democrats and liberals have been able to pander to the lower classes without actually having to give them anything tangible to improve their standard of living.

As a liberal, I agree for the most part. Improve the standard of living for the poor actually requires left-leaning, big government services, paid for through taxation of the more affluent.

The reason we've become the party your describing is because the Democratic party has become economically centrist. . . protecting Wall Street and allowing less regulation and taxation. Both Clinton's and Obama were economically centrist. It's one of the reasons democrats get the low turnout they do.

The best way to get rid of "identity politics," as it is being referred to here, is to simply reform the criminal justice system, get congress to get off their butts and pass substatial immigration legislations that allows more paths to citizenship, and tell state governors to stop proposing religiously-driven legislation.

If the right simply allows these things to move forward, then all the sudden, no more problems that bother you over your morning cornflakes. This troubling "identity politics" stuff just goes away.
 
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