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IDENTIFYING THE FIRST HORSEMAN IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Some few years back I had written on Identifying the third horsemen in the book of Revelation as a response to a question asked by someone. You can read it here. I thought of covering the full scope of the prophecy by writing on the other horsemen.

    So I am starting with the first horsemen in the blog post.

    “I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.”Revelation 6

    Revelation 6, Jesus will showing John the vision of things to happen soon in the first century opened the seven seals of judgment. This was to begin a period of Tribulation period upon the land. When is the period of tribulation? Will it be the year 2019 or something still in the future?

    For us to accept a present time or future period will be not see the bible through in complete narration.

    Look at what Jesus told his disciple earlier before his ascension.

    15 “So when YOU SEE standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—16 then let THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the SABBATH. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
    22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I HAVE TOLD YOU ahead of time.

    (Matthew 24)

    Note the capitalized words. It is very who the audience of the prophecy is for and hence the need for them to be equipped with the information that will be beneficial when those turbulent moments arose.

    If it were our time, how would a Nigerian flee to the mountains? How would an American hope that it didn’t occur during Sabbath when he doesn’t observe it?

    Mark the last word quoted “See, I HAVE TOLD YOU ahead of time

    Something was to unleashed upon the land of Israel as a form of judgment for rejecting their covenant partner and holding on to an obsolete system of worship was doomed to thrown away.

    The book of Revelation is more like an expanded form of the prophecy found in Matthew 24 but in more prophetic language. Chapter gives you a rundown of how the judgment would take place.

    The first four seals the lamb opens are the four horsemen, and each is released from heaven to usher in various judgments on the land translated as earth. Strong’s defines the Greek word the (ge) means contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):–country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

    Thayer’s Greek Lexicon also defines it “a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region”

    In Matthew 27:45 you will see the word used in local application “over all the land unto the ninth hour.” This was when Jesus hung on the cross. The darkness was not all over the earth but that local region.

    The White Horse
    “And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

    Adam Maarschalk in his blog on Revelation 6 notes;

    “The command “Come!” appears three more times, at the end of verses 3, 5, and 7. This command was not given to John four times, but to each of the characters mentioned in verses 2, 4, 5, and 8. We will notice, as each of the first four seals are opened, that Jesus is the One who opens them, but each of the four living creatures in turn calls forth some individual to execute judgment.”

    The first of the four horsemen was given a crown and riding off in conquest. This horseman riding the white horse into battle is, also brought forth in Revelation 19:11-16. In Revelation 19:16 He is called the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.” In both place this rider on the white horse is the Jesus Christ, time he appears in judgment theme and motif.

    The fact that Jesus is depicted riding a horse while carrying a bow calls mirrors Habakkuk 3.
    O LORD, were You displeased with the rivers,
    Was Your anger against the rivers,
    Was Your wrath against the sea,
    That You rode on Your horses,
    Your chariots of salvation?
    9 Your bow was made quite ready;
    Oaths were sworn over Your arrows. Selah

    In Habakkuk 3 the Lord is represented coming on the clouds in judgment riding horses (v. 8) and carrying a bow (v. 9). This sight appeals to the Jewish mind as the presence of God when He rides on the clouds of heaven in the midst of the Glory Cloud (Psalm 18:14).

    This horseman is said to be a “conqueror bent on conquest.” The Greek word translated conquest in v. 2 is the same word used in the letters to the seven churches translated overcoming and conquering (Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21). Revelation 3:21 reads, “He who conquers, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My Throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on His Throne.”

    Jesus is again revealed as a conqueror in Revelation 5:5: “The Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered so as to open the Book.”

    The saints were likewise expected to be on this conquest in the overthrow of that dark old age and system that enslaved people from true worship. Hence the promise of the saints sitting with him in his reign in the full manifestation of His kingdom.

    This first seal judgment was fulfilled in early February 67 AD when Rome officially declared war on Israel, and Nero formally commissioned Vespasian as his general to lead the war to crush the Jewish rebellion. This took place 3.5 years before Jerusalem’s downfall in August 70 AD.

    This was the essence; the declaration of the end of the age and that old world where darkness reigned. The Lord’s judgment began with the events that saw the countdown.

    The following horsemen all show forth the results of this declaration which was the beginning of the tribulation period.

    We are definitely not expecting this to happen in our time. This is rather a look back at how prophecy was fulfilled in proving the contents of the Bible and Jesus to be true and faithful.

    See you in the next installment as we will examine further fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelation 6.

    Credits:
    Revelation Chapter 6 (Part 1) – Adam Maarschalk: September 3, 2009
    Revelation Chapter 6 (Part 1)
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I would have to disagree...

    Notice:

    22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I HAVE TOLD YOUahead of time.

    If it had been fulfilled in 67AD, there would have already been false messiahs and prophets during that time performing great signs and wonders. That never was fulfill in the 1st century.

    I think the problem in this person's eschatology is that he hooks up (erroneously) certainly scriptures with others at the expense of looking at the totality of what was written as noted above.
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    We have lots and lots of false messiahs and prophets.. even today.
     
  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Yes... today we do. But we are talking about 67AD.

    I do believe that prophecies are faithful and true... but interpretations, sometimes, are off.
     
    #4 KenS, Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I find this quote to be accurate:

    "The cornerstone of the Preterist position is a belief that the book of Revelation was written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. This belief flies in the face of strong evidence to the contrary.

    The internal evidence of the book regarding the Roman Empire and the external testimony of the Church Fathers both point to a date of authorship around 95 A.D., 25 years after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

    The type of widespread Roman persecution of the Church that is pictured in Revelation did not occur until the reign of Domitian (81-96 A.D.). The persecutions of Nero were limited to the area of Rome. One of the Church Fathers, Iranaeus (c. 130-c. 202), wrote that the book of Revelation was authored by the apostle John “toward the end of Domitian’s reign.” Irenaeus was discipled by Polycarp (c. 70-c. 155 A.D.) who, in turn, had been discipled directly by John himself."

    Thus, to relate Revelations to before the destruction of Jerusalem would be wrong.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67

    The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67 - Fox's Book of Martyrs
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Nero Persecutes

    The Christians, 64 A.D.

    Beginnings of Christian Martyrdom

    The following account was written by the Roman historian Tacitus in his book Annals published a few years after the event. Tacitus was a young boy living in Rome during the time of the persecutions.

    "Therefore, to stop the rumor [that he had set Rome on fire], he [Emperor Nero] falsely charged with guilt, and punished with the most fearful tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were [generally] hated for their enormities.

    Christus, the founder of that name, was put to death as a criminal by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea, in the reign of Tiberius, but the pernicious superstition - repressed for a time, broke out yet again, not only through Judea, - where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, whither all things horrible and disgraceful flow from all quarters, as to a common receptacle, and where they are encouraged. Accordingly first those were arrested who confessed they were Christians; next on their information, a vast multitude were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of "hating the human race."

    Nero Persecutes The Christians, 64 A.D.
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Nero's games in the Vatican Gardens, of A. D. 64, evidently left a profound impression on the Roman world. The spectators were used to these pitiless exhibitions. The crowds who thronged the amphitheatre had often seen men die; but they had never seen men die like those Christians who, in scenes of unexampled horror, by the sword, under the teeth of wild beasts, or in the flames, passed to their rest. The memory of the scene evidently was still fresh in Seneca's mind when, a year or two later, he wrote to Lucilius urging him to bear up bravely under sickness and bodily pain.

    https://erenow.net/ancient/early-christianity-and-paganism-1902/5.php
     
  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist.
    What I have read is that Jesus rode a donkey.
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Yes.. All Jews rode donkeys. They didn't have green pastures for raising horses.
     
  11. Stanyon

    Stanyon RF's Ultra -Square

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    I agree, Hillary Clinton, Alexandria Ocasio - Cortez, Bernie Sanders to name a few.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Lolol. Lindsey, Lahaye, Hagee, Scofield...…...
     
    #12 sooda, Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  13. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Ehhh.... seems like overthink to me. Just me I guess, but I always related to the horsemen as the stages we tend to go through in life. White horse - we come in pure, unsullied doing good and friend to all. Red horse - people disagree, folks want to take my stuff and make me do things - anger fight. Black horse - disillusion, cope with it, hang on any way you can. Pale horse, a passing to the unknown, relief.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    You are making it too complicated.

    Four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

    The first horseman rides a white horse, which scholars sometimes interpret to symbolize Christ; the second horseman rides a red horse and symbolizes war and bloodshed; the third rides a black horse and symbolizes famine; and the fourth horseman rides a pale horse and represents pestilence and death.

    All that stuff happened between 66 AD and 70 AD and Josephus wrote about it in detail.. Since he was born in 37 AD he would have been a witness.
     
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