Ideas for responding to defamation campaigns against Muslims

[Jim]

First I want to say a few things in defense of people raising alarms about Islam. I agree with some of what is being said in those campaigns. I think that sometimes people believe in the Quran as being from God in a way that is unique to Islam and which facilitates recruiting people for crimes against humanity. I think that people campaigning against Islam are mostly not aware of the anti-Muslim subliminal messages that are embedded in the “criticism of Islam” propaganda that they are circulating. I think that calling Islam a “religion of peace,” allegations of racism, and exposing the fallacies only add fuel to the fire, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract defamation campaigns against Muslims.

A few months ago I went searching in the Quran, looking for passages promoting good character and conduct, and page after page, all I saw was incitations to violence against unbelievers. Even with a search engine for searching in the Quran, I couldn’t find anything promoting good character and conduct like what I was looking for.

What I think people need to understand is how propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” works as a way of stigmatizing all Muslims, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract the danger from Islam. In fact, I think that anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” actually facilitates recruiting people in Europe and North America for crimes against humanity in the name of Islam.

I’ll explain that later, in another post.

 

[Shad]

First I want to say a few things in defense of people raising alarms about Islam. I agree with some of what is being said in those campaigns. I think that sometimes people believe in the Quran as being from God in a way that is unique to Islam and which facilitates recruiting people for crimes against humanity. I think that people campaigning against Islam are mostly not aware of the anti-Muslim subliminal messages that are embedded in the “criticism of Islam” propaganda that they are circulating. I think that calling Islam a “religion of peace,” and allegations of racism, only add fuel to the fire, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract defamation campaigns against Muslims.

A few months ago I went searching in the Quran, looking for passages in the Quran promoting good character and conduct, and page after page, all I saw was incitations to violence against unbelievers. Even with a search engine for searching in the Quran, I couldn’t find anything promoting good character and conduct like what I was looking for.

What I think people need to understand is how propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” works as a way of stigmatizing all Muslims, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract the danger from Islam. In fact, I think that anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” actually facilitates recruiting people in Europe and North America for crimes against humanity in the name of Islam.

I’ll explain that later, in another post.

This sounds like like anti-Israel means anti-semantism PR. Ironic really although not aimed at you.

 

[Jim]

I’ll try now to explain how I think propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” works as a way of stigmatizing all Muslims, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract the danger from Islam. It might take many tries for me to explain it in a way that people can understand it, after I see people’s responses to it.

It all revolves around a theory that anyone who does not see the Quran as endorsing all the worst atrocities that people do in the name of Islam, is a dishonest person, a person who can not be trusted. According to that theory, every Muslim in the world, without any exceptions, is either a person who endorses all the worst atrocities, or a person who can not be trusted. Most or all of the propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” revolves around that theory, without doing anything to promote awareness of the danger from Islam or to help reduce or counteract it. In fact i think that it stirs up opposition to promoting awareness of the danger, and it facilitates recruiting people in Europe and North America for crimes against humanity in the name of Islam.

 

[ClimbingTheLadder]

First I want to say a few things in defense of people raising alarms about Islam. I agree with some of what is being said in those campaigns. I think that sometimes people believe in the Quran as being from God in a way that is unique to Islam and which facilitates recruiting people for crimes against humanity. I think that people campaigning against Islam are mostly not aware of the anti-Muslim subliminal messages that are embedded in the “criticism of Islam” propaganda that they are circulating. I think that calling Islam a “religion of peace,” and allegations of racism, only add fuel to the fire, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract defamation campaigns against Muslims.

A few months ago I went searching in the Quran, looking for passages in the Quran promoting good character and conduct, and page after page, all I saw was incitations to violence against unbelievers. Even with a search engine for searching in the Quran, I couldn’t find anything promoting good character and conduct like what I was looking for.

What I think people need to understand is how propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” works as a way of stigmatizing all Muslims, without doing anything to help reduce or counteract the danger from Islam. In fact, I think that anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam” actually facilitates recruiting people in Europe and North America for crimes against humanity in the name of Islam.

I’ll explain that later, in another post.

You're too vague, also speaking of a false, non-existing monolithic boogieman.
I also noticed you mentioned so-called "unbelievers" without even defining what that is.
Furthermore you're perpetuating the same ignorance as the rest of them by the false way you are framing the topic, which shows you have some kind of agenda against Islam yourself, well if you're not simply very confused with wires crossed over what you are even speaking about.

 

[Jim]

You're too vague, also speaking of a false, non-existing monolithic boogieman.
I also noticed you mentioned so-called "unbelievers" without even defining what that is.
Furthermore you're perpetuating the same ignorance as the rest of them by the false way you are framing the topic, which shows you have some kind of agenda against Islam yourself, well if you're not simply very confused with wires crossed over what you are even speaking about.

Thank you. That’s very helpful. Thank you.

 

[Jim]

One thing that might need to be considered is how to distinguish honest, responsible criticism of Islam from anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam.” It might be very simple. It might be that honest, responsible criticism of Islam in Internet discussions, if there is such a thing, is never defended as “criticism of Islam.”

 

[Jim]

If there is any such thing as honest, responsible criticism of Islam in Internet discussions, there would never be anything in it about the people who call themselves Muslims or who are called Muslims by others, For example, nothing about how many Muslims want Sharia, or anything else about what Muslims think or want. Nothing about Muslims who don’t endorse the worst atrocities not being true Muslims. I don’t think that there would be any of that in any honest, responsible criticism of Islam. If anyone has ever seen any “criticism of Islam” in Internet discussions that does not say anything incriminating or disparaging about Muslims in general, I would like to see it.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Surah 5:48 "So vie with one another in good deeds.' [The Study Qur'an]
Alternative Translation: "So compete in righteousness." [Quran English Translation]

 

[sun rise]

One thing that might need to be considered is how to distinguish honest, responsible criticism of Islam from anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam.” It might be very simple. It might be that honest, responsible criticism of Islam in Internet discussions, if there is such a thing, is never defended as “criticism of Islam.”

If someone says that they don't believe in Islam because they believe something else, that's not criticism but a statement of belief.

If someone says that some Muslims incite violence because of how they read the Quran, that's not criticism of Islam but criticism of how some Muslims interpret Islam. Note the word 'some'. The some to me are all the terrorists and the terrorist sympathizers.

If someone with an open mind asks questions based on how he interprets the Quran and is willing to engage in constructive dialog, that's not criticism but a debate.

If someone states that the way of life Muslims lived in the 7th Century does not fit with today's world, that's fair criticism.

What goes over the line to me are statements whether explicit or implicit that "Islam is evil", "Muslims are all terrorists", "Muslims want to" . In other words making a hard good (us) vs evil (them) statement or a provably false statement about all Muslims.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You're too vague, also speaking of a false, non-existing monolithic boogieman.
I also noticed you mentioned so-called "unbelievers" without even defining what that is.
Furthermore you're perpetuating the same ignorance as the rest of them by the false way you are framing the topic, which shows you have some kind of agenda against Islam yourself, well if you're not simply very confused with wires crossed over what you are even speaking about.

A general problem with Bahais. They accept and reject Mohammad in the same breath. Well, not just Islam, but all other major religions as well.

 

[sun rise]

For example, nothing about how many Muslims want Sharia

One other thing that's fair: Asking Muslims what Sharia means to them. Because in my research, most of sharia is about how to pray, when to pray, how to live one's life, avoiding debt, giving alms and the like.

But to me fair criticism gets into the realm of the "hudud (mandatory) punishments, treating members of other religions as second class citizens and some other matters.

So fair criticism should be detailed and based on knowledge not ignorant assertions of an overly broad nature.

 

[Jim]

I’ll be posting some ideas about how to respond to anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as “criticism of Islam,” innocent victim of attacks against freedom of speech. There might actually be such a thing as honest and responsible criticism of Islam in Internet discussions, and if so it might be important for some purposes to distinguish between them. As I said, I don’t think that any honest, responsible criticism of Islam would contain any stigmatizing generalizations about Muslims.

 

[ClimbingTheLadder]

Because in my research, most of sharia is about how to pray, when to pray, how to live one's life, avoiding debt, giving alms and the like.

YES, this is 100% correct.

 

[Dawnofhope]

A few months ago I went searching in the Quran, looking for passages promoting good character and conduct, and page after page, all I saw was incitations to violence against unbelievers. Even with a search engine for searching in the Quran, I couldn’t find anything promoting good character and conduct like what I was looking for.

I am surprised this is your assessment of reading the Quran. It is not how I see it.

Indeed, those who believe and do righteous deeds and establish prayer and give zakah will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
2:274

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
49:13

Kind speech and forgiveness are better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is Free of need and Forbearing.
2:263

I agree there are violent verses but one needs to take into account the historic circumstances with the Quraysh's relentless pursuit of the Muslims to Medina and their attempts to utterly destroy them.

Morality in Islam - Wikipedia

Human rights in the Quran - Wikipedia

 

[icehorse]

Islam claims to be a religion of peace. I believe it is a totalitarian ideology that promotes submission through fear. Fear is the opposite of love. Misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and supremacism are all fear-based phenomenons promoted by Islam. Most of the world's Muslims have Islam foist upon them at birth and do not have the choice to abandon this horrible set of ideas. As we know, in many parts of the Islamic world, apostasy (leaving the faith), is a crime, in some countries it is a capital crime. I think we should help make it more possible for Muslims to see all the fear baked into this reprehensible belief system, and help them leave such a bad set of ideas behind. I believe this would ultimately a kindness towards Muslims, not harmful, but compassionate and helpful.

 

[ClimbingTheLadder]

Islam claims to be a religion of peace.

Aside from the etymology of how the term Islam is indeed etymologically related by roots to the term for peace in Arabic, which is "Salaam".
(aka Salaam means 'peace', Islaam means 'submission')
Submission also being a similar sentiment found in Christianity to "Surrendering to God" both of which are an act of love and egolessness. Similar sentiments are found in Hindu Bhakti tradition where the whole essence of one's practice and life is to unite with God, as everything is an expression of that Unity (Tawhid).

Aside from that, you are parroting the same meme used as divisive propaganda against Islam originating from a George Bush speech. Stop it, it makes me cringe.
And as I mentioned in the other thread the word "religion" is not even correct according the native texts. If you were to describe Islam in the native context, you would call it "Islam the doctrine" (ad-Deen al-Islam), because in it's original objective sense; Islam is doctrine not "religion" in the usual sense of the word.

Islam is however 'religion' in the sense of spirituality and spiritual pursuit. The original use of the term "religion" obviously being completely different to the way the term is used nowadays (as to refer to institutions - the most notable and influential being the Catholic Church).
(this of course is not to say that there aren't institutions in Islam because there are, but Islam itself is not an institution, nor has there ever been any central 'orthodoxy', therefore not classifying under the semantics you use)

I believe it is a totalitarian ideology that promotes submission through fear.

Which one?

And no, this statement is as much of a terrible generality as the mentality of ISIS themselves.

The phrase "submission through fear" is also an ironic knot that is too ironic and too strange to unravel on this thread. It is odd that you use this term too because it presupposes your own negative definitions of these terms (although 'submission' itself can mean many different things, as can 'fear')

Fear is the opposite of love.

That is a philosophical statement. Not all philosophers would agree with you.

Misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and supremacism are all fear-based phenomenons promoted by Islam.

Again, which one?

And at the same time, vague blanket statements. It's hard to take your comment with any seriousness. Seems like a case of 'preaching to the choir'.

The comment of "antisemitism' seems like you're trying to be trendy there. Jews have a very high regard in Islam and are seen as brothers in faith.

Most of the world's Muslims have Islam foist upon them at birth and do not have the choice to abandon this horrible set of ideas.

You sound like you're trying to make out that Muslims are forced against their will to follow a religion they don't approve of, when clearly this is the opposite of the case.

As we know, in many parts of the Islamic world, apostasy (leaving the faith), is a crime, in some countries it is a capital crime.

Apostasy doesn't exist in Islam. The concept is entirely absent. "Apostasy" is also an english term associated with the institution of the Catholic Church, therefore it's use should stay in that realm because that's the only place were such a concept really exists, per se.

I think we should help make it more possible for Muslims to see all the fear baked into this reprehensible belief system

Don't worry, they've heard all your arguments and fallacies, your propaganda isn't unknown. They know very well how much lazy work is being put into strawmanning Islam and turning it into a scapegoat in contemporary geopolitics.

I believe this would ultimately a kindness towards Muslims, not harmful, but compassionate and helpful.

This statement is condescending, it is "I know the truth but you wild apes don't, let me educate you with our reel trooth!". Facetiousness is the only response that is justified to your statement. Your comments come off as dry, uneducated, desperate and quite confused.

See ya!

 

[Jim]

Islam claims to be a religion of peace. I believe it is a totalitarian ideology that promotes submission through fear. Fear is the opposite of love. Misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocracy, and supremacism are all fear-based phenomenons promoted by Islam. Most of the world's Muslims have Islam foist upon them at birth and do not have the choice to abandon this horrible set of ideas. As we know, in many parts of the Islamic world, apostasy (leaving the faith), is a crime, in some countries it is a capital crime. I think we should help make it more possible for Muslims to see all the fear baked into this reprehensible belief system, and help them leave such a bad set of ideas behind. I believe this would ultimately a kindness towards Muslims, not harmful, but compassionate and helpful.

Aside from that, you are parroting the same meme used as divisive propaganda against Islam originating from a George Bush speech. Stop it.

@icehorse I don’t want you to stop. You haven’t crossed the line that I’m drawing between honest and responsible criticism of Islam and defaming Muslims, and I see that you might be trying to avoid that, although you are dangerously close to it. I’m very glad to see you posting in this thread.

When I say “honest and responsible criticism,” that doesn’t mean that I agree with it.

 

[Jim]

One of my ideas for responding to anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as criticism of Islam is the same as my idea for responding to all kinds of harmful behavior: not responding to it at all, not even to argue or protest against it.

 

[ajay0]

Through Taliban, ISIS and deployment of a medieval mindset against women in general, I think islamic society effectively disempowered its women who could have played a balancing role in Islam and made it truly peaceful and harmonious as it was originally designed to be.

I think Islam must be exposed to scriptures and teachings of other monotheistic religions like the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, Jehovah's Witnesses , Bahaism and Sikhism so that it will learn to understand and appreciate other monotheistic points of view.

For example, the Prajapita Brahmakumaris is the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by women.They are a monotheistic sect based in India which worships God as an incorporeal point of light.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris have teaching centers in almost every country in the world where they teach their religious philosophy and meditation techniques free of cost. They have won seven U.N. peace awards for their efforts in promoting global peace and harmony.

The success of the Prajapita Brahmakumaris prove hollow and false the theme of disempowered women in taliban, isis and fundamentalist versions of Islam, and shows that empowered women are capable on their own of teaching religion and spirituality in society.

 

[Jim]

Some other issues that I see in considering how to respond to anti-Muslim propaganda masquerading as criticism of Islam, besides how to respond to harmful behavior:
- How to respond to misinformation.
- How to help reduce and counteract the long term psychological damage that can happen to people when they are targets of popular stereotypes and prejudices.
- How to help free people from their prejudices and delusions.

The issue of psychological damage might be what I want to discuss next.