Ideas for reducing and counteracting effects of psychological abuse

[Jim]

It might take a few more generations to stop toxic behavior online, and most of what needs to be done might be offline. Even so, I think that part of what needs to be done is online, in every social network and forum including this one, and I think that anything anyone does to actually help stop toxic behavior online might help stop all kinds of cruelty, violence and oppression offline.

Most or all of the denunciations of behavior that I’ve seen have actually been personal attacks across faction lines. which I think besides being toxic behavior in themselves, actually encourage that behavior and magnify its effects. That’s one reason for what I’ve been saying about people who want to help clearly distancing themselves from denunciations across faction lines.

Sometimes some of the worst behavior gets the most “Like”s, and sometimes even “Winner”s, because it’s entertaining or because it’s against a popular target of animosity. That might be a big part of what’s helping to perpetuate toxic behavior online. Any visible response to that behavior, friendly or hostile, rewards it and helps perpetuate it and magnify its effects.

One lame and contemptible excuse that I’ve seen for it is to stop the spread of misinformation. Another is the infantile “they started it.” Another is that the cruelty and personal attacks are just people saying honestly what they think, and anyone who objects to it is a sissy and/or enemy of free speech. Arguing about those excuses is another way of giving the behavior the kind of attention that helps perpetuate it and magnify its toxic effects.

Posting all this helps me clarify my thinking and brace myself against whatever personal attacks and harassment it might bring on me, and I’m hoping that it might do the same for others.

 

[Ayjaydee]

It might take a few more generations to stop toxic behavior online, and most of what needs to be done might be offline. Even so, I think that part of what needs to be done is online, in every social network and forum including this one, and I think that anything anyone does to actually help stop toxic behavior online might help stop all kinds of cruelty, violence and oppression offline.

Most or all of the denunciations of behavior that I’ve seen have actually been personal attacks across faction lines. which I think besides being toxic behavior in themselves, actually encourage that behavior and magnify its effects. That’s one reason for what I’ve been saying about people who want to help clearly distancing themselves from denunciations across faction lines.

Sometimes some of the worst behavior gets the most “Like”s, and sometimes even “Winner”s, because it’s entertaining or because it’s against a popular target of animosity. That might be a big part of what’s helping to perpetuate toxic behavior online. Any visible response to that behavior, friendly or hostile, rewards it and helps perpetuate it and magnify its effects.

One lame and contemptible excuse that I’ve seen for it is to stop the spread of misinformation. Another is the infantile “they started it.” Another is that the cruelty and personal attacks are just people saying honestly what they think, and anyone who objects to it is a sissy and/or enemy of free speech. Arguing about those excuses is another way of giving the behavior the kind of attention that helps perpetuate it and magnify its toxic effects.

Posting all this helps me clarify my thinking and brace myself against whatever personal attacks and harassment it might bring on me, and I’m hoping that it might do the same for others.

So in a post to stop toxic online posting you call some posts lame and contemptible!! Lol

 

[Jim]

So in a post to stop toxic online posting you call some posts lame and contemptible!! Lol

That helps clarify that I’m not opposed to criticizing beliefs, ways of thinking, attitudes and behavior. I’m doing that myself. I’m denouncing all beliefs including science beliefs and God beliefs. I’m denouncing cruelty and personal attacks, and the excuses and camouflage that people use for them.

 

[Ayjaydee]

That helps clarify that I’m not opposed to criticizing beliefs, ways of thinking, attitudes and behavior. I’m doing that myself. I’m denouncing all beliefs including science beliefs and God beliefs. I’m denouncing cruelty and personal attacks, and the excuses and camouflage that people use for them.

Camaflage as in calling someone's post contemptible but not them personally? Lol

 

[Jim]

Camaflage as in calling someone's post contemptible but not them personally? Lol

The cruelty and personal attacks that I’m denouncing are in posts to or about a specific person, or group or category of people, where they will see it.

 

[Ayjaydee]

The cruelty and personal attacks that I’m denouncing are in posts to or about a specific person, or group or category of people, where they will see it.

You really think the folks you're alluding to hre dont know who you mean? Lol

 

[Jim]

You really think the folks you're alluding to hre dont know who you mean? Lol

I’m responding to your posts because they look on topic to me, and they don’t look cruel to me. What you’re doing does look like a personal attack to me, but not enough to ignore it at this point,

Calling people’s excuses for cruelty and personal attacks “infantile,” “lame,” and “contemptible” might be the kind of behavior that I’m denouncing. I’m not sure. I’ll think about it some more.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I’m responding to your posts because they look on topic to me, and they don’t look cruel to me. What you’re doing does look like a personal attack to me, but not enough to ignore it at this point,

Calling people’s excuses for cruelty and personal attacks “infantile,” “lame,” and “contemptible” might be the kind of behavior that I’m denouncing. I’m not sure. I’ll think about it some more.

Not trying to be cruel, simply pointing out what I see to be a roadblock to what you're trying to achieve as it seems the rough and tumble of a forum is so much a part of it that even the overly sensitive guy who deplores it unknowingly uses it in his campaign to fight it!. And that's no slam on you, we all do it, its human nature

 

[Jim]

Not trying to be cruel, simply pointing out what I see to be a roadblock to what you're trying to achieve as it seems the rough and tumble of a forum is so much a part of it that even the overly sensitive guy who deplores it unknowingly uses it in his campaign to fight it!. And that's no slam on you, we all do it, its human nature

I agree that I do it sometimes, and what I said about excuses might be an example of that. I agree that it’s part of human nature. Earthquakes, floods and hurricanes are part of nature too. Maybe we can’t stop cruelty, violence and oppression from happening any more than we can stop those other natural disasters from happening. That’s not going to stop me, and I think an ever-increasing number of people around the world, from trying. However that may be, I think that anyone who wants ro can help reduce and counteract the damage.

I think that most of the cruelty and personal attacks in Internal discussions are not consciously intended that way. Sometimes they are though, and that is the target of my denunciations.

 

[Jim]

This is a repeat of an earlier post, with some revisions.

Part of what needs to happen to reduce the popularity of toxic behavior in Internet discussions might be more open discussions about it between people who are actually trying to help stop it, revolving around personal development and community service, ignoring personal attacks, gaslighting and other distractions, and clearly distancing themselves from denunciations across faction lines, including identity and belief lines. Personal attacks might include being branded as sissies, snowflakes or enemies of free speech. Some examples of other distractions are demands for examples and definitions, questions and comments designed to create doubt and confusion about the issues or divert attention from them, and flooding with off-topic posts. Anyone in those discussions who is actually trying to help stop toxic behavior might also need to be prepared to be followed around and harassed by a few people, wherever they post in the forums.

 

[Jim]

Calling toxic behavior “rough and tumble,”
and people who object to it “overly sensitive” is an example of how I think people are being fooled and intimidated into silence about it and submission to it.

 

[Jim]

(bolding mine)

Not trying to be cruel, simply pointing out what I see to be a roadblock to what you're trying to achieve as it seems the rough and tumble of a forum is so much a part of it that even the overly sensitive guy who deplores it unknowingly uses it in his campaign to fight it!. And that's no slam on you, we all do it, its human nature

Thinking about that post some more, I see it as a wonderful contribution to this discussion. Calling toxic behavior “rough and tumble” and anyone who objects to it “overly sensitive” is a good illustration of one of the roadblocks that I see to stopping online toxic behavior.

 

[Jim]

I’ve thought some more about calling people’s excuses “infantile,” “lame” and “contemptible,” and I’ve decided not to do it any more for now.

 

[Jim]

I just thought of a possible reason for people who agree with what I’m saying, if anyone does, not to give me any encouragement, besides not wanting to be targets of abuse. They could have some doubts about my motives and intentions. Maybe I would too, if I saw someone else doing this.

 

[Jim]

I saw some posts in another thread that might create some doubts and confusion about what I’m promoting, or divert attention from it, so I want to review and update it.

I’m not defining “cruelty” or “personal attacks.” What I’m saying is for people who are already concerned about some behavior that looks like cruelty and personal attacks to them. For my purposes, we don’t all need to agree on which behaviors we think of that way. I’m not equating cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions with bullying and abuse offline, or even in social networks. I’m thinking that anything anyone does to help stop cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions will help reduce some of tha damage that they do, and at the same time help reduce all kinds of cruelty, violence and oppression elsewhere, online and offline, I’m also thinking that there might be some good ideas for stopping cruelty and personal attacks in Internal discussions, on anti-bullying and anti-abuse websites, no matter if the behavior and the consequences are all the same or not.

 

[Jim]

I think that psychological damage to people from other people’s behavior is more a consequence of people mot having the friendships, community life, and personal resources that could prevent the damage or help repair it, than a consequence of the behavior itself. I think the most fruitful and beneficial efforts to prevent and repair the damage will be in those areas.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It might take a few more generations to stop toxic behavior online, and most of what needs to be done might be offline. Even so, I think that part of what needs to be done is online, in every social network and forum including this one, and I think that anything anyone does to actually help stop toxic behavior online might help stop all kinds of cruelty, violence and oppression offline.

Most or all of the denunciations of behavior that I’ve seen have actually been personal attacks across faction lines. which I think besides being toxic behavior in themselves, actually encourage that behavior and magnify its effects. That’s one reason for what I’ve been saying about people who want to help clearly distancing themselves from denunciations across faction lines.

Sometimes some of the worst behavior gets the most “Like”s, and sometimes even “Winner”s, because it’s entertaining or because it’s against a popular target of animosity. That might be a big part of what’s helping to perpetuate toxic behavior online. Any visible response to that behavior, friendly or hostile, rewards it and helps perpetuate it and magnify its effects.

One lame and contemptible excuse that I’ve seen for it is to stop the spread of misinformation. Another is the infantile “they started it.” Another is that the cruelty and personal attacks are just people saying honestly what they think, and anyone who objects to it is a sissy and/or enemy of free speech. Arguing about those excuses is another way of giving the behavior the kind of attention that helps perpetuate it and magnify its toxic effects.

Posting all this helps me clarify my thinking and brace myself against whatever personal attacks and harassment it might bring on me, and I’m hoping that it might do the same for others.

Sounds like you just need a break.

You know, there is nothing wrong with toughening-up the ole' Teflon personality either. It will give you extra padding from all the Bushido. ;0)

 

[Jim]

I’ll be discussing some ideas from websites about bullying, abuse, and family violence websites, that might be helpful in reducing and counteracting harmful effects of toxic behavior in Internet discussions. Before that I want to say that for me this is not about branding some people as bullies and abusers, and trying to expose and denounce them. I think that a person can be abused and be abusing others at the same time. I think that two people can be abusing each other at the same time. I think that the idea of “bullies,” “abusers” and “victims” as categories of people mostly serves some faction and career interests that are adding to the abuse and the damage it does, and helping to perpetuate it.

 

[Jim]

What I’m saying is for people who can see toxic behavior in Internet discussions as a serious social problem or part of a serious social problem, and who are trying or willing to try to help stop it, and reduce and counteract its harmful effects. I’ll come back later to discussing how to help stop it. Now I want to discuss how to help reduce and counteract its harmful effects.

I think that some day people will be trained as they grow up in ways that will help them avoid being damaged by abuse, and help them recover from its traumatizing effects, without abusing others. That might still be a few generations away. Meanwhile, we can try to help reduce and counteract the damage that’s being done, and help people recover from being traumatized by abuse. I’ll be discussing some ideas about that.

 

[Jim]

From a Web page that I’m reading (Responding to Emotional Abuse: How You Can Help Someone You Know | Springtide Resources):

“Understand that it is normal for an abused woman to deny what is happening, or make excuses for her partner.”

That might apply any time a person is being abused, online or offline.

“Encourage her to understand there is no excuse for any form of abuse.”

That confirms my idea of openly denouncing toxic behavior in Internet discussions sometimes, and openly disapproving sometimes when I see it happening.