Idea or Reality

[Milton Platt]

assumptions are required....as no proof will ever be rendered

and you know this

there will never be a photo, a fingerprint, an equation or repeatable experiment

you cannot place God in a petri dish

this is a debate forum......about God and religion

no proof for you.....toooooooo bad

So in otherwords god is virtually undetectable..that makes him/her/it irrelavant.

 

[Darkstorn]

your lack of stance is obvious

Ooooo...

your denial is shallow

Then why are you unable to argue it? Too deep for you still?

ideas first
as in Spirit first

You haven't shown with certainty that you know what you're talking about. You assert that you do. You just don't show it. Incapable?

So in otherwords god is virtually undetectable..that makes him/her/it irrelavant.

Actually, to be specific. To him god's ABSOLUTELY undetectable, and always WILL be.

Not virtually. And certainly not "might."

 

[LukeS]

For humans, the thing receded the concept of it, for God the idea preceded the thing.

 

[Fool]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with this quote.

the same idea that einstein conveyed, energy and mass are simply two sides of the same coin.

willamena and quintessence both seem to have a grasp on the paradox of a thing and the thing of an idea

It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. - einstein

 

[Polymath257]

energy can exist as a potential mass and mass is a potential energy source. as einstein explained, they are simply 2 different manifestations of the same thing.

First, energy does NOT 'exist as potential mass' nor does mass exist as 'potential energy' (and be careful, the phrase potential energy has a different meaning in physics than what you mean here). Energy exists. Mass exists. There is a single conservation law of mass-energy where before special relativity there were two: conservation of mass and conservation of energy. The equation E=mc^2 shows how to include mass into this new conservation law (actually, this equation only works for masses at rest. The more general equation is E=sqrt( m^2 c^4 +p^2 c^2)
where p is the momentum. This equation also works for massless particles like photons).

 

[Polymath257]

Einstein Exhibit -- Voice of Einstein


"It followed from the special theory of relativity that "mass" and "energy" are both but different manifestations of the same thing -

What relevance does this have to the previous discussion???

 

[Polymath257]

the same idea that einstein conveyed, energy and mass are simply two sides of the same coin.

willamena and quintessence both seem to have a grasp on the paradox of a thing and the thing of an idea

It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. - einstein

Why do you think that is relevant to the distinction between an idea and a thing? Ideas are not energy in the sense of physics.

 

[Fool]

Why do you think that is relevant to the distinction between an idea and a thing? Ideas are not energy in the sense of physics.

it doesn't require energy to have an idea, to grasp an idea, or to realize an idea?

Everything doesn't vibrate along the electro-magnetic spectrum?

 

[Thief]

So in otherwords god is virtually undetectable..that makes him/her/it irrelavant.

no.....that makes Him the one waiting to see what stands from the dust

 

[Thief]

Actually, to be specific. To him god's ABSOLUTELY undetectable, and always WILL be.

Not virtually. And certainly not "might."

as my previous post.....I believe it's a sure thing that God and heaven have some interest what stands from the dust

It doesn't matter if you see it coming your way or not

 

[Darkstorn]

as my previous post.....I believe it's a sure thing that God and heaven have some interest what stands from the dust

I know. The problem is, you're using your personal beliefs in a debate while others have to do all the work and prove your claims baseless. But they don't need to do that. You haven't given evidence. Your claims can be dismissed out of hand.

It doesn't matter if you see it coming your way or not

Empty threats with a pinch of proselytizing. THAT is your substance.

 

[Quintessence]

Ideas happen inside the minds of people and are thereby located in both space and time--in their brains at a certain time.

You and I are interpreting the word "idea" in two dramatically different ways. With how I am understanding the term, this is definitely not how it works.

 

[Thief]

I know. The problem is, you're using your personal beliefs in a debate while others have to do all the work and prove your claims baseless. But they don't need to do that. You haven't given evidence. Your claims can be dismissed out of hand.



Empty threats with a pinch of proselytizing. THAT is your substance.

religious forum
my beliefs vs your beliefs......debate

no proof required
just whatever you believe

if you have no belief.....you are wasting your time here

 

[Darkstorn]

religious forum
my beliefs vs your beliefs......debate

I'm TRYING to debate. You are using aversion.

no proof required
just whatever you believe

Oh, PROOF is required. Your sentences are REQUIRED to logically make sense for you to even call it a debate. Proof is a concept of math and logic. It has nothing to do with evidence.

if you have no belief.....you are wasting your time here

I never said i don't have beliefs. I'm just not stupid enough to call them absolute truth. You are making an assumption about my person with that comment, without using evidence.

And i think it's me who decides whether or not i'm wasting my time, not your highness.

 

[Thief]

I'm TRYING to debate. You are using aversion.



Oh, PROOF is required. Your sentences are REQUIRED to logically make sense for you to even call it a debate. Proof is a concept of math and logic. It has nothing to do with evidence.



I never said i don't have beliefs. I'm just not stupid enough to call them absolute truth. You are making an assumption about my person with that comment, without using evidence.

And i think it's me who decides whether or not i'm wasting my time, not your highness.

so put your belief where we can see them

 

[Polymath257]

it doesn't require energy to have an idea, to grasp an idea, or to realize an idea?

Ideas are processes in the brain. Those processes need chemical energy to work, so in this sense ideas do require energy. They also require glucose and ATP. That doesn't mean that ideas *are* energy.

Everything doesn't vibrate along the electro-magnetic spectrum?

No. Sound, for example, is a vibration that is not electromagnetic. While electromagnetism is an important aspect of atoms, that doesn't mean that atoms 'vibrate along the electromagnetic spectrum'.

I would suggest you go learn a bit of basic physics before attempting to debate in this subject.

Edit: The wave particle duality shows that particle and waves are, at base, the same phenomena. But an electron wave is NOT an electromagnetic wave. They are *quite* different things.

 

[Polymath257]

You and I are interpreting the word "idea" in two dramatically different ways. With how I am understanding the term, this is definitely not how it works.

How do you understand the term?

 

[Quintessence]

How do you understand the term?

In the Platonic sense, not in the "somehow this only exists inside human heads" sense. See Plato (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[Polymath257]

In the Platonic sense, not in the "somehow this only exists inside human heads" sense.

OK, now why do you think that Platonic ideas exist?

 

[Darkstorn]

so put your belief where we can see them

I'm Buddhist. If you're truly interested, you can read about it yourself. I am not going to proselytize.