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Featured Idea or Reality

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, May 18, 2017.

  1. Fool

    Fool Well-Known Member
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    Religion:
    Exclusively no thing, inclusively everything NuK Pu Nuk
    So which came first?

    a thing, or it's idea?
     
  2. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    I'm assuming you made this thread before you had the idea about it. Would explain a lot.

    But just to entertain you: There has been a lot of things before there was any man to define what "idea" is.
     
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  3. jonathan180iq

    jonathan180iq Well-Known Member

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    Thing
     
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  4. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    /Thread.
     
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  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    It seems to me the question is nonsensical. Ideas are not bound by space-time, and the notion of "first" requires either a position in time or a location in space.
     
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  6. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    let there be light!

    seems the notion preceded the action
     
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  7. chinu

    chinu S T O I C

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    Religion:
    means "re-union" with from where we all started the journey of life in the beginning.
    Hence, God can never be an Idea. :)
     
  8. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    You can't infer that from my post though. You just wish you could. :E

    Because it definitely can be an idea, unless your premise says that god precedes everything. Well, you're welcome to believe that, there's nothing wrong with that. But to use it in a debate... Makes no sense. The "other side" has to use the scientific method to verify and falsify their claims. You can just ignore those prerequisites.

    To me it remains an idea until someone verifies its existence. In plain words, in this context, there is no thing to find, only the idea. So far at least. If the idea of god was verified, then it wouldn't be a matter of faith, but a matter of evidence.

    But yeah, wishful thinking doesn't actually reinforce one's views. Sorry.
     
  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the 'thing'. There were trees before anyone had an idea of a 'tree' because there were trees before there were any people to *have* ideas.

    But, there was an idea of 'chess' before someone actually made a chessboard.
     
  10. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
    Agnostic with strong atheistic tendencies. Perhaps apatheist or ignostic.
    Ideas happen inside the minds of people and are thereby located in both space and time--in their brains at a certain time.
     
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  11. Robert Landbeck

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    'Christian' when it finally begins
    Imagination must first be able to conceive the idea of something, before it can seek to confirm the reality [thing].
     
  12. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    I'd say the idea..

    it's not clear that there can ever be creation without creativity..
     
  13. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    Technically there cannot be creation without a creator. But the problem remains: CREATION has not been shown. There is no evidence. Or if there is, it's still located in someone's mind as an idea and no one has been able to bring it into reality. Well, until that happens:

    "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Hitchens's Razor

    Since there is no evidence, it can be dismissed out of hand, just like that. Poof.

    I don't like when people construct a premise, then construct an argument based on that premise. But they forget to show that the premise holds true first. They just assume.
     
  14. janesix

    janesix Member

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    Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence. Humans also have creativity, with Ideas they turn into reality.
     
  15. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    I don't like how some people refuse to understand this: This is a debate forum. Not a proselytizing forum. You can't assume your premise to be true in a debate against those who DO NOT hold your premise to be true. There are many different people of many different faiths here and some people come into an argument assuming everyone already holds the Christian biblical version of events as the default position.

    I think it's intellectual laziness and lowers the quality of threads. At least separate your claims from factual arguments by saying "in my opinion". Please. Otherwise it's a one sided argument by default and that means no one wins.
     
  16. janesix

    janesix Member

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    Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence. Humans also have creativity, with Ideas they turn into reality.
     
  17. Darkstorn

    Darkstorn Active Member

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    So, no debate, only proselytizing?
     
  18. janesix

    janesix Member

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    OK sorry.
     
  19. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Well, most things do not have ideas, rather only beings with brains do, but I don't think you meant what you actually wrote.

    But to answer what guess was your intended question, ideas come from the cognitive faculties of thinking beings and the existence of things is independent of whether a being chances to think about it.
     
  20. Repox

    Repox Truth Seeker

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    It is elementary, Watson, everything was here first. Humans developed symbolic communication ability. Then, with the use of symbols, humans communicated. Close your eyes, shut you mouth, and it will still be here.