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ICSA article: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i community

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
While continuing to wade through the swamp I found something sounding more scientific, possibly explaining both the hurt feelings of former Baha’is that I found out about and the question why Baha’is were characterized as seemingly pedantic.

ICSA - Founded 1979 - Enemies Within - Conflict and Control in the Baha i Community

It’s from the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), so make of it what you will, but I think it offers valuable insights, so check it out if you want to bother yourselves with what is given as reasons for the mindset of probably a lot of Baha’is. There’s really a load to read but the main argument seems to be this:

...the Baha'i Faith places adherents in a psychological bind by simultaneously upholding liberal ideals, which attract intelligent and creative people, while at the same time exerting pressure towards obedience and conformity. This conformity is enforced by the attitudes of fellow adherents, intimidation by Baha'i officials, and sanctions, including excommunication and shunning, limitation of participation in community affairs, and most recently, simply dropping nonconformists from the membership rolls.

There is a real sense, among those Baha'is that experience this disillusionment, of being hoodwinked or betrayed. They believe they are joining a broad-minded and tolerant religion and become actively involved in its promotion, only to run up against authoritarian expectations that they find insupportable. Since individual experience and tolerance towards authority figures vary, it sometimes takes years for that limit to be reached, leaving former members expressing bitterness and loss for the portion of their lives they spent promoting the religion and serving the needs of the administration.

The author also mentions that the Baha’i members in poorly-functioning assemblies are told that things will get better in the future when the Faith has grown and better administrative structures are in place.

In this emphasis on future expectations, rather than serving the needs of the [current] membership, the Baha'i Faith can be fairly compared with the Jehovah's Witnesses, another strongly missionary group with a high turnover in membership.

There’s certainly a lot more to discuss in the article than what I can mention now ... so please share your views.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I took this topic on in detail a few years back as it fascinated me from a psychological POV. Best wishes in your study. At this point, as I've been able to draw my own conclusions reading several sides of the story, and exploring in depth, I have little interest.

The Baha'is are by no means unique with regard to many of the behaviors mentioned in the article.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
...the Baha'i Faith places adherents in a psychological bind by simultaneously upholding liberal ideals, which attract intelligent and creative people, while at the same time exerting pressure towards obedience and conformity.
1. Who applies this pressure and in what way?

2. In what ways, obedience and conformity is required?

3. Who asks them to obey?



This conformity is enforced by the attitudes of fellow adherents, intimidation by Baha'i officials,
1. Who are the Bahai officials?

2. How do they intimidate?

and sanctions, including excommunication and shunning, limitation of participation in community affairs, and most recently, simply dropping nonconformists from the membership rolls.
.

Can you give an example of someone who excommunicated? What has she/he done?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
1. Who applies this pressure and in what way?

2. In what ways, obedience and conformity is required?

3. Who asks them to obey?




1. Who are the Bahai officials?

2. How do they intimidate?



Can you give an example of someone who excommunicated? What has she/he done?
Read the link for details.

Here is a extract covering some of the points you raise:

"The Baha’i Faith’s public position is that it does no proselytizing, but active efforts at bringing in converts are essential to fulfill the theocratic mission. Some Baha’is feel, quite literally, that the problems of the world are on their shoulders, and can only be eliminated by spreading the religion and its institutions. The convert will find himself pressured to participate in “teaching” and discovers that the word “proselytize” has been redefined to mean either conversion by force or door-to-door recruiting. There are, in fact, constant appeals for Baha’is to teach the Faith, and it is considered to be the primary job of spiritual assemblies to create plans for teaching, so a good deal of time and energy is spent on them.

Ironically, though, there are limits to the kinds of individual teaching projects that the Baha’i leadership will tolerate. For example, a Baha’i of my acquaintance put a lot of time and effort into a regional teaching project only to be told “We can’t give you a blank check,” i.e., the project was scrapped because it was not under institutional control. A Baha’i in Albuquerque was ordered to cancel her successful television show promoting the Baha‘i Faith, and was told that her teaching “would have no effect” because she was “not in unity with the assembly”; in other words, she was perceived as being a trouble-maker and too independent.[20] This leaves a talented teacher in a bind: He or she is constantly told to “arise” and convert others to the religion, but will be restrained by the perceived need for institutional direction. Also, serving the religion in this way is no protection against being threatened over the circulation of liberal ideas. Indeed, some of the scholars and intellectuals attracting official disapproval have been overseas missionaries in dangerous and difficult assignments.

Another aspect of this emphasis on spreading the religion is that great importance is attached to forming Local Spiritual Assemblies, regardless of their level of functioning. These bodies are not elected in response to the religion’s growth, but are created in any locality where nine or more Baha’is reside. “Homefront pioneers,” or missionaries, deliberately relocate in order to establish LSAs, even though the move is sometimes a few miles or just over a city limit. Even inactive believers and new converts can be elected to serve, if they are needed to make up the nine necessary to form the assembly. The religion’s stress on the importance of maintaining these fragile assemblies is also a strong incentive for proselytizing. It is not uncommon to see these marginal communities, which make up the majority, collapse entirely if these efforts are not successful. [21]

Once formed, these assemblies are generally left to develop a viable community life without outside support. The NSA has on occasion directly intervened in the working of LSAs, even to the point of dissolving the assembly itself. The criteria for when this intervention occurs seem to be uncertain, and no clear pattern emerges, except where there is concern over “covenant-breakers.”[22] Members can be left at the mercy of dictatorial or even abusive local leaders, with higher levels of administration quite slow to act on complaints. In one extreme case, an ex-Baha’i recounts how as a young man in the 70s he fell under the influence of a leader who had virtually his own cult within the Baha’i structure and who used drugs and punishments, such as locking his disciples in closets in order to control them. By the time the NSA intervened the cult leader had moved out of state. This young follower was subjected to a two-hour interrogation in which he was accused of conspiring with his former mentor.[23] The possibility of tyrannical local leadership also seems to be revealed in a number of allegations that emerged during the course of a lawsuit against the LSA of Albuquerque. According to some reports, the Chairman of the LSA claimed to be “the Voice of God” in his community, and thus was to be obeyed without question. [24]

While this extreme level of high-handedness is unusual, strong-minded and pushy local leaders are not uncommon, and many disgruntled Baha‘is report that they feel powerless to influence local affairs, even though in theory problems are supposed to be solved through community consultation."


The main thrust of the article seems to be the conflict between the outwardly liberal, tolerant and open image of the faith and a centrally driven and controlled drive to grow through attracting converts, and to exert tight control over doctrine. In other sections of the article there is reference to the use of what amounts to excommunication of people who are deemed too independent.

So there seems to be, according to this article, something of a mismatch between image and reality that leads to new converts frequently becoming disappointed and disillusioned. Plenty of other faith organisations exert tight control over doctrine (e.g. the Catholic Church) but usually this control is a well-known feature of their public image, so that converts know what they are getting into before they sign up.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Read the link for details.

Here is a extract covering some of the points you raise:

"The Baha’i Faith’s public position is that it does no proselytizing, but active efforts at bringing in converts are essential to fulfill the theocratic mission. Some Baha’is feel, quite literally, that the problems of the world are on their shoulders, and can only be eliminated by spreading the religion and its institutions. The convert will find himself pressured to participate in “teaching” and discovers that the word “proselytize” has been redefined to mean either conversion by force or door-to-door recruiting. There are, in fact, constant appeals for Baha’is to teach the Faith, and it is considered to be the primary job of spiritual assemblies to create plans for teaching, so a good deal of time and energy is spent on them.

Ironically, though, there are limits to the kinds of individual teaching projects that the Baha’i leadership will tolerate. For example, a Baha’i of my acquaintance put a lot of time and effort into a regional teaching project only to be told “We can’t give you a blank check,” i.e., the project was scrapped because it was not under institutional control. A Baha’i in Albuquerque was ordered to cancel her successful television show promoting the Baha‘i Faith, and was told that her teaching “would have no effect” because she was “not in unity with the assembly”; in other words, she was perceived as being a trouble-maker and too independent.[20] This leaves a talented teacher in a bind: He or she is constantly told to “arise” and convert others to the religion, but will be restrained by the perceived need for institutional direction. Also, serving the religion in this way is no protection against being threatened over the circulation of liberal ideas. Indeed, some of the scholars and intellectuals attracting official disapproval have been overseas missionaries in dangerous and difficult assignments.

Another aspect of this emphasis on spreading the religion is that great importance is attached to forming Local Spiritual Assemblies, regardless of their level of functioning. These bodies are not elected in response to the religion’s growth, but are created in any locality where nine or more Baha’is reside. “Homefront pioneers,” or missionaries, deliberately relocate in order to establish LSAs, even though the move is sometimes a few miles or just over a city limit. Even inactive believers and new converts can be elected to serve, if they are needed to make up the nine necessary to form the assembly. The religion’s stress on the importance of maintaining these fragile assemblies is also a strong incentive for proselytizing. It is not uncommon to see these marginal communities, which make up the majority, collapse entirely if these efforts are not successful. [21]

Once formed, these assemblies are generally left to develop a viable community life without outside support. The NSA has on occasion directly intervened in the working of LSAs, even to the point of dissolving the assembly itself. The criteria for when this intervention occurs seem to be uncertain, and no clear pattern emerges, except where there is concern over “covenant-breakers.”[22] Members can be left at the mercy of dictatorial or even abusive local leaders, with higher levels of administration quite slow to act on complaints. In one extreme case, an ex-Baha’i recounts how as a young man in the 70s he fell under the influence of a leader who had virtually his own cult within the Baha’i structure and who used drugs and punishments, such as locking his disciples in closets in order to control them. By the time the NSA intervened the cult leader had moved out of state. This young follower was subjected to a two-hour interrogation in which he was accused of conspiring with his former mentor.[23] The possibility of tyrannical local leadership also seems to be revealed in a number of allegations that emerged during the course of a lawsuit against the LSA of Albuquerque. According to some reports, the Chairman of the LSA claimed to be “the Voice of God” in his community, and thus was to be obeyed without question. [24]

While this extreme level of high-handedness is unusual, strong-minded and pushy local leaders are not uncommon, and many disgruntled Baha‘is report that they feel powerless to influence local affairs, even though in theory problems are supposed to be solved through community consultation."


The main thrust of the article seems to be the conflict between the outwardly liberal, tolerant and open image of the faith and a centrally driven and controlled drive to grow through attracting converts, and to exert tight control over doctrine. In other sections of the article there is reference to the use of what amounts to excommunication of people who are deemed too independent.

So there seems to be, according to this article, something of a mismatch between image and reality that leads to new converts frequently becoming disappointed and disillusioned. Plenty of other faith organisations exert tight control over doctrine (e.g. the Catholic Church) but usually this control is a well-known feature of their public image, so that converts know what they are getting into before they sign up.

There will always be a diversity of faith as different people have different levels of understanding. As such some will have not grasped the full intent of so vast a Message, I have studied it for 36 years and have only scratched the surface.

It is easy to pick fault, but the key is not to look for that fault. ;)

The Key is what do the writings say about such matters. In that way we can see if the criticism has foundation, or if it is just another way to pull the splinter out of another's eye, while still having a plank in one's own eye.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There’s certainly a lot more to discuss in the article than what I can mention now ... so please share your views.

Oh goody another one :D

My veiw is that when one embraces a faith so challenging, then we will be challenged.

As such some take on that challenge and become better people, some stagnate, some are repelled, some come back to fight it.

No one is perfect, so the key lays in what we are asked to follow.

As such any criticism of the Faith will most likely be justified, as many followers are yet to understand what is being asked of them.

I am still trying to understand what is asked of me after 36 years as a Baha'i, I see I still get it wrong.

So I and many Baha'i will cop the criticism fair and square, the quandary others face is that they are attributing the faults of beleivers to the Message, a Message they are yet to try to understand.

That is not true justice.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
While continuing to wade through the swamp I found something sounding more scientific, possibly explaining both the hurt feelings of former Baha’is that I found out about and the question why Baha’is were characterized as seemingly pedantic.

What hogwash, a quich search found this person on angle fire.

Karen Bacquet

This is not a scientific examination of faith.

Keep them coming, injustice spreads Faith faster than being nice.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
OK. I'll bite. Let's start by examining the source.

ICSA - Founded 1979

According to my friend Wikipedia:

In their book, Cults and New Religions: A Brief History (2009), sociologists Douglas E. Cowan and David G. Bromley describe the ICSA as a "secular anticult" organization. They point out that the ICSA provides no indication of how many of their characteristics are necessary for a group to be considered "cultic". The checklist creators do not adequately define how much of certain practices or behaviors would constitute "excessive", nor do they provide evidence that any of the practices listed are innately harmful. Finally, Cowan and Bromley criticize the ICSA list as being so broad that even mainstream organizations such as Buddhism, Evangelical Protestantism, Hinduism, and the Roman Catholic Church fall within the criteria.


International Cultic Studies Association - Wikipedia

So its useful to consider the source of the article and how other religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and the Roman Catholic Church may be portrayed.

It is also useful to consider the author of the paper who is a well known disaffected ex-Baha'i. Here is her story:

My Life in the Baha'i Community

With those preliminary considerations in mind, I'm happy to consider the paper and the criticisms put forth. Unlike the blog posted yesterday, this 'paper' with require a little more time to read and consider. One source of information about a religion is certainly what disaffected members have to say about it. That needs to be balanced by hearing from those who are knowledgeable about a religion and can provide objective information (not necessarily from Baha'is themselves) and hearing from those who have been a Baha'i for many years.

I'll try to find the time to further assess what Karen Bacquet has to say later in the day.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
There will always be a diversity of faith as different people have different levels of understanding. As such some will have not grasped the full intent of so vast a Message, I have studied it for 36 years and have only scratched the surface.

It is easy to pick fault, but the key is not to look for that fault. ;)

The Key is what do the writings say about such matters. In that way we can see if the criticism has foundation, or if it is just another way to pull the splinter out of another's eye, while still having a plank in one's own eye.

Regards Tony
What you say does not address in any way the points raised in the article. The "key" to addressing the article is to take in what it says and then respond to that.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Although in response to another, I have a few comments to make based on being a Bahaí for over 30 years and having served on the Baha'i administration for the last 20 years.

Its worth mentioning the author of the paper was once a member of the Baha'i community who also served on an Assembly. She appears to have withdrawn from the faith in 1998 and says she had been a Baha'í for 14 years.

My Life in the Baha'i Community

What comes across in Karen's account is feeling hurt and disillusioned as a result of her experiences within the Baha'i community.

I believe its worth noting there has been a major culture shift since Karen was a member of the community (1980s to late 1990s). Many of the issues that were real back then, would not be much of an issue now. That isn't to say there isn't potentially significant challenges for some who may decide to become a Baha'i now.



To teach the Baha'i Faith is simply to educate others as to the principles and more importantly the spirit of the Baha'i Faith to anyone who is interested. You've contributed to this thread and made some comments so I'm providing my opinion. That's teaching the faith. There is no interest or attempt to convert you or anyone. I'm just responding. That's quite different from proselytizing. There is no "conversion by force".

Although Assemblies make plans for the community, that usually means reinforcing a culture where individuals feel encouraged and empowered to teach. Teaching the Baha'i Faith is an important aspect of being a Baha'i.

I'm not sure how much you are interesting in discussing this paper and the culture within Baha'i communities. You're a Catholic and there are undoubtedly some parallels between our faiths. I'll leave it to you if you want to discuss it further or not not.
I have no really informed opinion about Baha'i either way, save that, never having even heard of it before I joined this forum, I suppose I have a certain natural suspicion about a Johnny-come-lately religion - and also I find the c.17th English into which its c.19th scriptures have been anachronistically translated a bit ridiculous. But then all religions have their ridiculous elements to an outsider.

So I do not have any special reason to agree or disagree with the linked article. I was replying to the post by @InvestigateTruth, pointing out that the linked article answers at least some of the questions asked.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
While continuing to wade through the swamp I found something sounding more scientific, possibly explaining both the hurt feelings of former Baha’is that I found out about and the question why Baha’is were characterized as seemingly pedantic.

ICSA - Founded 1979 - Enemies Within - Conflict and Control in the Baha i Community

It’s from the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), so make of it what you will, but I think it offers valuable insights, so check it out if you want to bother yourselves with what is given as reasons for the mindset of probably a lot of Baha’is. There’s really a load to read but the main argument seems to be this:





The author also mentions that the Baha’i members in poorly-functioning assemblies are told that things will get better in the future when the Faith has grown and better administrative structures are in place.

There’s certainly a lot more to discuss in the article than what I can mention now ... so please share your views.

Basically I read a story of a person that was not ready for what Baha'u'llah offered.

In this age, that is very understandable as Baha'u'llah came to make a new race of men, it is not a Journey for the faint-hearted, one needs to understand many things that an unbridled liberty have offered, are in fact not appropriate in this age.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I have no really informed opinion about Baha'i either way, save that, never having even heard of it before I joined this forum, I suppose I have a certain natural suspicion about a Johnny-come-lately religion - and also I find the c.17th English into which its c.19th scriptures have been anachronistically translated a bit ridiculous. But then all religions have their ridiculous elements to an outsider.

So I do not have any special reason to agree or disagree with the linked article. I was replying to the post by @InvestigateTruth, pointing out that the linked article answers at least some of the questions asked.

No problem. Having just read the article, I've concluded it is of very little worth for someone wanting to learn about the Baha'i Faith, given all the distortions and half truths from someone so disaffected. It seems like a poor starting place to learn about the Baha'i Faith. Its useful if someone is wanting to confirm their prejudices and biases but what value is prejudice and bias? I had just deleted my initial response to you when you replied.

Have a great day.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
There’s certainly a lot more to discuss in the article than what I can mention now ... so please share your views.

As said to another, having reviewed the article, I find little of value if the aim is to understand how the Baha'i community was back in the 1980s and 90s let alone now. Someone joins a religion, finds its not for them and rather than move on, spends a great deal of time and energy attacking something that used to be a major part of their life. I get it. I suppose it happens all the time with broken relationships. It happens with many leaving Christianity and this forum has many disaffected ex-Christian atheists. Heck, you may be disaffected with the religion you've grown up with too. Perhaps she feels she is doing something noble in warning people away as some antitheists feel they are making the world a better place by attacking religion. I wish her well and you too with your journey into Hinduism.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I have no really informed opinion about Baha'i either way, save that, never having even heard of it before I joined this forum, I suppose I have a certain natural suspicion about a Johnny-come-lately religion - and also I find the c.17th English into which its c.19th scriptures have been anachronistically translated a bit ridiculous. But then all religions have their ridiculous elements to an outsider.

So I do not have any special reason to agree or disagree with the linked article. I was replying to the post by @InvestigateTruth, pointing out that the linked article answers at least some of the questions asked.

I'm the same ... no reason to agree or disagree, and yet, I've been accused of having an anti-Baha'i agenda on these forums. That's something you can look forward to for expressing neutrality.
"You're either with us, or agin us" ...
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
No problem. Having just read the article, I've concluded it is of very little worth for someone wanting to learn about the Baha'i Faith, given all the distortions and half truths from someone so disaffected. It seems like a poor starting place to learn about the Baha'i Faith. Its useful if someone is wanting to confirm their prejudices and biases but what value is prejudice and bias? I had just deleted my initial response to you when you replied.

Have a great day.
I think it's always useful to read several viewpoints, just as if you're reading on-line reviews of some hotel, or a local mechanic. For that, I read the 5 stars, and the 1 stars. The ex-________ forums of all religions have useful information, as do the pro forums.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I think it's always useful to read several viewpoints, just as if you're reading on-line reviews of some hotel, or a local mechanic. For that, I read the 5 stars, and the 1 stars. The ex-________ forums of all religions have useful information, as do the pro forums.

That's fair enough, but as someone who is knowledgeable about the Baha'i Faith and has considerable experience with it, I can also rate the quality of the review.

You are no doubt familiar with works about Hinduism that are next to worthless for providing accurate and informed commentary as @exchemist has read of Catholicism. Such works usually have an agenda to denigrate which is apparent early on. The fact that this article is published on a secular anti cult site that targets many mainstream religions should serve as a red flag. However that is just my point of view.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think it's always useful to read several viewpoints, just as if you're reading on-line reviews of some hotel, or a local mechanic. For that, I read the 5 stars, and the 1 stars. The ex-________ forums of all religions have useful information, as do the pro forums.

The problem with reviews on Faith is that it is flawed from the start.

A Metephor is needed.

Say we built the most perfect car, with all the best features, flawless in purpose and has a very detailed operators manual.

We then offer it to drivers or various skill levels, inform them it can only operate to its full potential when and only when the owners manual is read and fully understood. We hand them the keys and leave it up to them.

The reviews on the performance are then written by them.

So when we read a review from the drivers, it will only reflect their level of skill and commitment to understanding the owners manual.

So in that Metephor we have not proved that the Most perfect car with all the best features and comprehensive owners manual is the issue, we have identified that the person who did the review, fell short in their effort to read and understand the manual before they drove the car.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
That's fair enough, but as someone who is knowledgeable about the Baha'i Faith and has considerable experience with it, I can also rate the quality of the review.

You are no doubt familiar with works about Hinduism that are next to worthless for providing accurate and informed commentary as @exchemist has read of Catholicism. Such works usually have an agenda to denigrate which is apparent early on. The fact that this article is published on a secular anti cult site that targets many mainstream religions should serve as a red flag. However that is just my point of view.
Everyone's free to see it however they like, but yes, there is variety in both the negative and positive. Some religious folks take critique with a grain of salt, while others get defensive at the mere whisper of anything off about their faith. Critics, OTOH, can give fair or hate-filled ignorant assessments.
 
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