I will harden Pharoahs heart (and punish all of egypt for it)

[The Anointed]

I'm saying it does not mean what you are implying.

The first occurrence where it is said that God will harden Pharaoh's heart is a prophetic message given to Moses. Since God knows the future He already knew the state of Pharaoh's heart and his cruel disposition toward Israel and rebellious pride toward any other authority than his own. From the first plague to the fifth it is stated that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. It wasn't until the sixth plague/judgement that the scriptures state in fulfillment of God's words to Moses that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. The plagues were called and considered judgements (Ex. 7:4) upon Pharaoh and Egypt for their treatment of the children of Israel.

Nevertheless, God gave Pharaoh repeated opportunities to repent and do what was right. God always gives ample opportunity for change, freedom, or escape from judgement. Pharaoh could have stopped the plagues at anytime, instead he hardened his own heart 10 times and refused to let the people go. That is who he was. This brought upon himself God's further hardening. This is the teachings of the scriptures throughout. If a person refuses to listen to God, refuses to change and continues in wrong-doing over and over again their own hard heart will be given further opportunities and further hardened by God for the purpose of openly revealing the true condition of the person's heart.

You asked why I believed that Israel was only in the land of Egypt for 215 years, my response can be read in my previous post in this thread. Apparently you have not seen it.

 

[InChrist]

You asked why I believed that Israel was only in the land of Egypt for 215 years, my response can be read in my previous post in this thread. Apparently you have not seen it.

I saw it. It is too long for me to read and think about right now.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm saying it does not mean what you are implying.

The first occurrence where it is said that God will harden Pharaoh's heart is a prophetic message given to Moses. Since God knows the future He already knew the state of Pharaoh's heart and his cruel disposition toward Israel and rebellious pride toward any other authority than his own. From the first plague to the fifth it is stated that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. It wasn't until the sixth plague/judgement that the scriptures state in fulfillment of God's words to Moses that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. The plagues were called and considered judgements (Ex. 7:4) upon Pharaoh and Egypt for their treatment of the children of Israel.

Nevertheless, God gave Pharaoh repeated opportunities to repent and do what was right. God always gives ample opportunity for change, freedom, or escape from judgement. Pharaoh could have stopped the plagues at anytime, instead he hardened his own heart 10 times and refused to let the people go. That is who he was. This brought upon himself God's further hardening. This is the teachings of the scriptures throughout. If a person refuses to listen to God, refuses to change and continues in wrong-doing over and over again their own hard heart will be given further opportunities and further hardened by God for the purpose of openly revealing the true condition of the person's heart.

where does the bible say that "I will harden Pharaoh's heart " doesn't mean God will harden Pharaoh's heart?

you like every Christian just does a fantastic job of explaining away the verses that you don't like.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Exodus 7:3 ►

But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

When a verse appeals to them, well, they take it for what it says. But when a verse sounds preposterous, like: God hardened pharaohs heart, then punished all Egypt for it and killed babies and children as a result of Pharaohs hardness of heart

All these Bible Christians suddenly no longer accept the Bible and they create their own God, while criticizing me for rejecting the Bible.

It says, I repeat, I WILL HARDEN PHARAOH'S HEART. He didn't say, "Pharaoh hardened his heart". I in that context is God speaking. He was referring to himself. Yet, Christians see how stupid some of Scripture is, so they come up with this huge unbiblical explanation for saying essentially "The Bible doesn't mean what it says".

So, if the Bible doesn't mean what it says in certain parts, how do you know you can learn anything from a collection of books that don't mean what they say?

You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. . Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

• 
  
  
  • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

• 
  
  
  • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2:23-25 NIV

• 
  
  
  • Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(Sounds like sex-slavery to me!)

• 
  
  
  • He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.... He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. 2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT

• 
  
  
  • You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

(God justifies slavery but of course, it's his word)

• 
  
  
  • Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

• 
  
  
  • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

(As if they did it to themselves and are to blame)

• 
  
  
  • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf (midget), or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV"

(What if they were born that way? Well, if God has a problem with how he made them he should make them without blemish)

And it says kill people for working on the wrong day of the week. Do you realize how crazy that is? Capital punishment for working on Saturday. REALLY??

Why would you have problem accepting that God hardens hearts of those who Are wrongdoers as a punishment?

Jesus said something similar:


Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.”

Why should I believe a book full of such insanity was inspired by God? Is that the best God can do? The Bible was spoken orally for generations before getting written down. There was plenty of time for those stories to become distorted from what originally happened!

If those scriptures were not inspired by God, He would have sent a Prophet to tell us, and warn us, so we won't get mislead. He would have told us, those are not His words. Is God powerless, or is He not caring to tell humanity the truth? But when Christ came, He did not say those scriptures are not trustworthy, did He? Why not?

 

[The Anointed]

I saw it. It is too long for me to read and think about right now.

Poor attention span, hey? What a pity.

 

[Riders]

I think you need to re-read the passages about Pharaoh and try to understand the whole picture being presented and who Pharaoh was and what God was actually doing in the situation. Pharaoh was already hard and evil...

"According to Adam Clarke's commentary, the Hebrew word translated harden "literally signifies to strengthen, confirm, make bold or courageous." An illustration commonly heard is that of a sponge squeezed (made hard) in the hand. Anything that comes forth from the squeezed sponge was already there. When God "hardened" Pharaoh's heart, He simply forced out what was already there, strengthening Pharaoh's own convictions."
Question: Did God take away Pharaoh's free will when He "hardened Pharaoh's heart" (Exodus 10:1-2)? What verses point to free will in the Bible?

"First, Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. The Egyptian pharaohs had enslaved the Israelites for 400 years. A previous pharaoh—possibly even the pharaoh in question—ordered that male Israelite babies be killed at birth (Exodus 1:16). The pharaoh God hardened was an evil man, and the nation he ruled agreed with, or at least did not oppose, his evil actions."
Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

And the babies and children God killed were guilty too.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Exodus 7:3 ►

But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

When a verse appeals to them, well, they take it for what it says. But when a verse sounds preposterous, like: God hardened pharaohs heart, then punished all Egypt for it and killed babies and children as a result of Pharaohs hardness of heart

All these Bible Christians suddenly no longer accept the Bible and they create their own God, while criticizing me for rejecting the Bible.

It says, I repeat, I WILL HARDEN PHARAOH'S HEART. He didn't say, "Pharaoh hardened his heart". I in that context is God speaking. He was referring to himself. Yet, Christians see how stupid some of Scripture is, so they come up with this huge unbiblical explanation for saying essentially "The Bible doesn't mean what it says".

So, if the Bible doesn't mean what it says in certain parts, how do you know you can learn anything from a collection of books that don't mean what they say?

You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. . Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

• 
  
  
  • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

• 
  
  
  • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2:23-25 NIV

• 
  
  
  • Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(Sounds like sex-slavery to me!)

• 
  
  
  • He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.... He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. 2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT

• 
  
  
  • You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

(God justifies slavery but of course, it's his word)

• 
  
  
  • Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

• 
  
  
  • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

(As if they did it to themselves and are to blame)

• 
  
  
  • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf (midget), or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV"

(What if they were born that way? Well, if God has a problem with how he made them he should make them without blemish)

And it says kill people for working on the wrong day of the week. Do you realize how crazy that is? Capital punishment for working on Saturday. REALLY??


Why should I believe a book full of such insanity was inspired by God? Is that the best God can do? The Bible was spoken orally for generations before getting written down. There was plenty of time for those stories to become distorted from what originally happened!

But, see.....you said it yourself: "But when a verse sounds preposterous..... ". Then that should be studied, using other passages. Don't you think?

Let me ask you this: in the Book of Job, did God hurt Job, or did the Devil do it? The Devil, right?
Then why did God indicate at Job 2:3b that He was doing it?

 

[Spiderman]

And the babies and children God killed were guilty too.

Yes, babies are always making too much noise.... Such great sinners they are!

 

[Spiderman]

But, see.....you said it yourself: "But when a verse sounds preposterous..... ". Then that should be studied, using other passages. Don't you think?

Let me ask you this: in the Book of Job, did God hurt Job, or did the Devil do it? The Devil, right?
Then why did God indicate at Job 2:3b that He was doing it?

God gave the devil permission to harm Job and God pointed Job out, making God just as responsible as the devil!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

God gave the devil permission to harm Job and God pointed Job out, making God just as responsible as the devil!

God allowed it, that's true. Just as He has allowed bad things to happen to those good & bad throughout history. But He also allows good things to happen, right? Even still, didn't Jehovah bless Job with twice as much, afterwards? And there will be blessings for those throughout history, who are "asleep in the ground of dust"(Daniel 12:2)....they will be given another chance to live again! For forever.

Whatever we may endure, life for many has good moments... but we only have 70 to 80 years in this "rat race". For those who have many bad things happen (like cancer), their life is shorter. Maybe only 50 years, or 20.

But, the coming Resurrection promised by God will rectify all the injustice that's ever happened to people! God's new World will usher in peace and happiness! -- Revelation 21:3-4.

Take care

 

[David1967]

I think you need to re-read the passages about Pharaoh and try to understand the whole picture being presented and who Pharaoh was and what God was actually doing in the situation. Pharaoh was already hard and evil...

"According to Adam Clarke's commentary, the Hebrew word translated harden "literally signifies to strengthen, confirm, make bold or courageous." An illustration commonly heard is that of a sponge squeezed (made hard) in the hand. Anything that comes forth from the squeezed sponge was already there. When God "hardened" Pharaoh's heart, He simply forced out what was already there, strengthening Pharaoh's own convictions."
Question: Did God take away Pharaoh's free will when He "hardened Pharaoh's heart" (Exodus 10:1-2)? What verses point to free will in the Bible?

"First, Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. The Egyptian pharaohs had enslaved the Israelites for 400 years. A previous pharaoh—possibly even the pharaoh in question—ordered that male Israelite babies be killed at birth (Exodus 1:16). The pharaoh God hardened was an evil man, and the nation he ruled agreed with, or at least did not oppose, his evil actions."
Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Ok. I'll bite. God hardened Pharoes heart making him do His will. So in essence he should have been rewarded for furthering Gods plan. Otherwise God could have just as easily softened Pharoes heart making him a nice guy. Saying he was already bad doesnt really hold water since there are other cases of bad guys that God turned into good guys. (Playing devils advocate here)

 

[Salvador]

Much of the Bible is simply bronze age mythology that shouldn't be taken to heart.

The alleged biblical plagues infesting Egypt would have totally devastated Egypt, yet this devastion of Egypt is never mentioned anywhere outside of the Bible. An Egypt weakened by plagues, death of its firstborn sons, and drowning of its army would have been noticed by its neighbors and such a devastated Egypt likely would have been taken advantage of by one of its neighboring rivals, yet none of that ever happened. Egypt's rivals certainly wouldn't have had an incentive to cover up such disasters to Egypt of biblical proportions.

I'm not a Christian, but I suspect most Christians and Jews would even agree with me that the Exodus of Jews from an Egyptian pharaoh's oppression is just mythology.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I am in agreement with what you say, except for the fact that Israel was only in Egypt for 215 years and not 430.

Wrong. Israel was never actually in Egypt, at any time-- this is based on actual archaeological records.

Of which there are none showing Israel was **ever** in Egypt at **any** time.

The story is just a story. Sorry.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Exodus 7:3 ►

But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

When a verse appeals to them, well, they take it for what it says. But when a verse sounds preposterous, like: God hardened pharaohs heart, then punished all Egypt for it and killed babies and children as a result of Pharaohs hardness of heart

All these Bible Christians suddenly no longer accept the Bible and they create their own God, while criticizing me for rejecting the Bible.

It says, I repeat, I WILL HARDEN PHARAOH'S HEART. He didn't say, "Pharaoh hardened his heart". I in that context is God speaking. He was referring to himself. Yet, Christians see how stupid some of Scripture is, so they come up with this huge unbiblical explanation for saying essentially "The Bible doesn't mean what it says".

So, if the Bible doesn't mean what it says in certain parts, how do you know you can learn anything from a collection of books that don't mean what they say?

You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. . Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

• 
  
  
  • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

• 
  
  
  • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2:23-25 NIV

• 
  
  
  • Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(Sounds like sex-slavery to me!)

• 
  
  
  • He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.... He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. 2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT

• 
  
  
  • You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

(God justifies slavery but of course, it's his word)

• 
  
  
  • Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

• 
  
  
  • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

(As if they did it to themselves and are to blame)

• 
  
  
  • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf (midget), or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV"

(What if they were born that way? Well, if God has a problem with how he made them he should make them without blemish)

And it says kill people for working on the wrong day of the week. Do you realize how crazy that is? Capital punishment for working on Saturday. REALLY??


Why should I believe a book full of such insanity was inspired by God? Is that the best God can do? The Bible was spoken orally for generations before getting written down. There was plenty of time for those stories to become distorted from what originally happened!

One of several moments in Bible Study, that began the erosion of whatever faith I may have had for it, previously.

The bible is one of the best tools to make people into atheists-- if you read the thing as written, instead of pretending it doesn't say what it actually says...

<cue bible apologists>

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why would you have problem accepting that God hardens hearts of those who Are wrongdoers as a punishment?

So much for Free Will...

 

[InChrist]

Ok. I'll bite. God hardened Pharoes heart making him do His will. So in essence he should have been rewarded for furthering Gods plan. Otherwise God could have just as easily softened Pharoes heart making him a nice guy. Saying he was already bad doesnt really hold water since there are other cases of bad guys that God turned into good guys. (Playing devils advocate here)

I think it holds water, as I don't believe God would force one to against their will to be someone who they aren't. God could not soften Pharaoh's heart if he was already a hard - hearted rebellious cruel person who felt entitled to rule over the Israelites, even when God repeatedly said said to let them go. I don't know who exactly you may be referring to when you say God turned other bad guys into good guys, but again, though God may apply pressure that pressure just brings out what a person already is. It does not force something against their will.

 

[Spiderman]

Once again, I will Harden Pharaoh's heart does not mean I will harden Pharaoh's heart.

When the Bible speaks of a Lake of Fire, Perhaps fire is symbolic for a lake of passionate love and laughing gas.

After all, the Bible is so famous for meaning something other than what it says.

When a scripture verse sounds Preposterous to you, be like every Christian and find a clever explanation for why it doesn't mean what it says. How lovely!

 

[Faithofchristian]

Exodus 7:3 ►

But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

When a verse appeals to them, well, they take it for what it says. But when a verse sounds preposterous, like: God hardened pharaohs heart, then punished all Egypt for it and killed babies and children as a result of Pharaohs hardness of heart

All these Bible Christians suddenly no longer accept the Bible and they create their own God, while criticizing me for rejecting the Bible.

It says, I repeat, I WILL HARDEN PHARAOH'S HEART. He didn't say, "Pharaoh hardened his heart". I in that context is God speaking. He was referring to himself. Yet, Christians see how stupid some of Scripture is, so they come up with this huge unbiblical explanation for saying essentially "The Bible doesn't mean what it says".

So, if the Bible doesn't mean what it says in certain parts, how do you know you can learn anything from a collection of books that don't mean what they say?

You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. . Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

• 
  
  
  • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

• 
  
  
  • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2:23-25 NIV

• 
  
  
  • Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(Sounds like sex-slavery to me!)

• 
  
  
  • He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.... He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. 2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT

• 
  
  
  • You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

(God justifies slavery but of course, it's his word)

• 
  
  
  • Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

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  • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

(As if they did it to themselves and are to blame)

• 
  
  
  • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf (midget), or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV"

(What if they were born that way? Well, if God has a problem with how he made them he should make them without blemish)

And it says kill people for working on the wrong day of the week. Do you realize how crazy that is? Capital punishment for working on Saturday. REALLY??


Why should I believe a book full of such insanity was inspired by God? Is that the best God can do? The Bible was spoken orally for generations before getting written down. There was plenty of time for those stories to become distorted from what originally happened!

If I may say, You said --->
Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

That's because those Christians that you ask, have no idea what the scripture's does say.
They only go by what their Pastors, Preachers tells them. So if it doesn't fit into what they been taught by man's teachings.

It's of no value to them.

Now as for the Pharaoh of Egypt, God never destroyed or killed the Pharaoh of Egypt, But God did use the Pharaoh of Egypt to reach out to the other Egyptians. To show them the error of their ways.

How many people do you know of, that will sacrifice themselves to save others, it's happened. We have Christ Jesus for that example.he sacrifice himself to save others.

likewise, God took the Pharaoh of Egypt to reach out to save others in Egypt. As well as people in Israel.

But people seems to think, what God did, is so awful, but yet God never killed the Pharaoh of Egypt. Only made him to be the sacrifice to reach out to save others, from the error of their ways.

Kinda like Christ Jesus Sacrifice himself, to save others, right.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Exodus 7:3 ►

But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt

Why is it that whenever I present that verse to Christians or any verse that doesn't scratch their itchy ears, they come up with a long explanation of why Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

When a verse appeals to them, well, they take it for what it says. But when a verse sounds preposterous, like: God hardened pharaohs heart, then punished all Egypt for it and killed babies and children as a result of Pharaohs hardness of heart

All these Bible Christians suddenly no longer accept the Bible and they create their own God, while criticizing me for rejecting the Bible.

It says, I repeat, I WILL HARDEN PHARAOH'S HEART. He didn't say, "Pharaoh hardened his heart". I in that context is God speaking. He was referring to himself. Yet, Christians see how stupid some of Scripture is, so they come up with this huge unbiblical explanation for saying essentially "The Bible doesn't mean what it says".

So, if the Bible doesn't mean what it says in certain parts, how do you know you can learn anything from a collection of books that don't mean what they say?

You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. . Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

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  • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

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  • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2:23-25 NIV

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  • Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

(Sounds like sex-slavery to me!)

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  • He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.... He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. 2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT

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  • You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

(God justifies slavery but of course, it's his word)

• 
  
  
  • Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

• 
  
  
  • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV

(As if they did it to themselves and are to blame)

• 
  
  
  • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf (midget), or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV"

(What if they were born that way? Well, if God has a problem with how he made them he should make them without blemish)

And it says kill people for working on the wrong day of the week. Do you realize how crazy that is? Capital punishment for working on Saturday. REALLY??


Why should I believe a book full of such insanity was inspired by God? Is that the best God can do? The Bible was spoken orally for generations before getting written down. There was plenty of time for those stories to become distorted from what originally happened!

I know some Bible scholars who know the whole Bible in great detail. They say that the Bible is inspired by God and that it's all correct from cover to cover.
They say that most people hate God because of the way He deals with sinners, like when He destroyed the whole world with a flood and only eight people were spared.

We can see that God has no problem with killing babies and children, He says in the Bible that everyone belongs to him and He can do whatever He wants with them. The Bible says that everyone has sinned and everyone deserves to go to hell, but God chose to save a lot of people and allow them eternal paradise after this life is over. All of those He didn't choose to save will spend eternity in hell.

Every single prophecy in the Bible is proving to be 100% correct, 80% of prophecies have already come to pass and the other 20% are happening now. God will destroy the world again soon, this time He will use fire to burn the whole world up and then He will create a new world and all those whom He didn't save will be cast into hell where they will remain forever.

I know a lot of people hate God, but all of those who God chose love Him with all of their heart mind, soul and strength. I am one of His elect Saints, so I have no problem with anything God does. He has every right to do whatever He wants with His puppets.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I'm saying it does not mean what you are implying.

The first occurrence where it is said that God will harden Pharaoh's heart is a prophetic message given to Moses. Since God knows the future He already knew the state of Pharaoh's heart and his cruel disposition toward Israel and rebellious pride toward any other authority than his own. From the first plague to the fifth it is stated that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. It wasn't until the sixth plague/judgement that the scriptures state in fulfillment of God's words to Moses that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. The plagues were called and considered judgements (Ex. 7:4) upon Pharaoh and Egypt for their treatment of the children of Israel.

Nevertheless, God gave Pharaoh repeated opportunities to repent and do what was right. God always gives ample opportunity for change, freedom, or escape from judgement. Pharaoh could have stopped the plagues at anytime, instead he hardened his own heart 10 times and refused to let the people go. That is who he was. This brought upon himself God's further hardening. This is the teachings of the scriptures throughout. If a person refuses to listen to God, refuses to change and continues in wrong-doing over and over again their own hard heart will be given further opportunities and further hardened by God for the purpose of openly revealing the true condition of the person's heart.

Can you explain exactly how God knows the future ?
And can you give the book and chapter and verses where this is written at ?