I used to attend what many refer to today as church, but

[YoursTrue]

The truth of the matter is simple enough, it doesn’t matter whether God exists or not. What matters is what we have done with the words contained therein.

Every country across this planet have contained four (4) of the Ten Commandments within their “laws”.

The guide to living a useful and peaceful life is spelled out in scripture. All we have to do is read it and do it and then it will be done.

Or we could take what we want, kill whomever we want; and in the process kill ourselves off until there is no one left.

It is immaterial whether God exists or not. What is important is what we do with what we read, for good or bad

In my view of things -

You are right in your presumptive conjectures. Although, I am happy to say, I have learned from the Bible that God will step in before mankind kills itself off. (whew for me and those concerned...it's over our heads.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The truth of the matter is simple enough, it doesn’t matter whether God exists or not. What matters is what we have done with the words contained therein.

I agree that God is generally irrelevant. I don't see why the Bible is especially important, though.

Every country across this planet have contained four (4) of the Ten Commandments within their “laws”.

Another way of expressing this same idea: the Bible incorporated ideas that have been common in many cultures.

The guide to living a useful and peaceful life is spelled out in scripture. All we have to do is read it and do it and then it will be done.

Or we could take what we want, kill whomever we want; and in the process kill ourselves off until there is no one left.

Even better: we can just disregard the Bible.

Everything in it that's demonstrably good can be arrived at without it, while everything in it that's questionable or downright evil can be avoided.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are right in your presumptive conjectures. Although, I am happy to say, I have learned from the Bible that God will step in before mankind kills itself off. (whew for me and those concerned...it's over our heads.)

This seems to me to be a dangerous thing to assume... and even more dangerous for people to rely on.

 

[Rival]

You said, "Come to Mondas and you will have no need of emotions. You will become like us.
Feelings? Feelings? Yes, we know of this weakness of yours. We are fortunate. We do not posses feelings."
And I say: that's funny.

'Funny?' What is that?

​

 

[james dixon]

Post 5: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:03 pm
Like this post
I just watched the movie "Ghost"

It was a real experience -

 

[GodInUs]

I got a vibe off your posts that you were asking why people didn't attend church so you could overcome their objections. If that impression was wrong, I apologize.


I'm fine with actual explanations of any length. I'm less okay with useless tangents. When I don't respond to your whole post, it's because I'm disregarding the parts I think are irrelevant.


You can just put quote tags around the quoted text. This:

[Quote]
This is a quote.
[/quote]

Will display as this:

you were asking why people didn't attend church so you could overcome their objections

OH! Negatory! No, no no! Do you get your feathers all ruffled if I don't believe the same way as you do? I do realize there are those misled ones who thinks, "Well by golly I just have to get this person to convert to MY faith! Oh yes, I do!" Sadly, their clueless, that's not even what the Bible say's at all. Then again people profess to believe and do as the Bible says BUT nope, they don't, hypocrites. It's not me who converts you, I'm just suppose to be Christlike to you (what's referred to as being a witness for Christ, His church), treat you like I would want to be treated, with respect and love. It's the Spirit who lives in His followers who does the rest, it's God who calls you, or you could say, sparks an interest or a curiosity or a craving or.....know what I mean, maybe, maybe not, it's o.k., either way. Yeah I'm aware that there are those "who are out to get ya!" Well by golly IT'S UP TO MEEEEEE to convert as many souls to Christ as possible, the same ones who think there's no prayer in school today, sure, o.k.!

I'm fine with actual explanations of any length. I'm less okay with useless tangents. When I don't respond to your whole post, it's because I'm disregarding the parts I think are irrelevant.

No worries, not a big deal to me, you don't have to respond what you don't feel like responding to, or at all. There's possessive and pushy people out there I realize, not one here, thank God! It's is up to YOU what you want to respond to or not, doesn't matter to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

... no one really told me why.

I figured that sometimes it was some sort of ritual roleplay to express reverence or emotion.

The actual importance of it was all over the place for some reason.

Then I began to understand that some people somehow actually believed in that "God" thing and even in its existence as a literal human being.

Then I realized that there would be a need to point out that I was an agnostic and an atheist so that people would not always make wrong assumptions.

Then I found out that some of my relatives were Spiritists, which was a bother.

Then I learned about Taoism, Buddhism, and religion in general.

Then I learned about religious communities by way of an accidental misuderstanding.

Then I realized that many cultural Christians do not really know a lot about the roles and forms of religion, nor of theism and non-theism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

OH! Negatory! No, no no! Do you get your feathers all ruffled if I don't believe the same way as you do? I do realize there are those misled ones who thinks, "Well by golly I just have to get this person to convert to MY faith! Oh yes, I do!"

I've seen it happen plenty of times, so I wouldn't have been surprised if that was what you were doing, too.

Sadly, their clueless, that's not even what the Bible say's at all. Then again people profess to believe and do as the Bible says BUT nope, they don't, hypocrites.

I don't really care what the Bible says.

I mean, it's had a fair impact on our culture and language, but I certainly wouldn't be looking to it for divine wisdom when we haven't even established that there's a "divine" out there to dispense wisdom at all.

 

[GodInUs]

BTW: while I wasn't exactly trying to ask you for your proof of the existence of God, Jesus, etc., I think you should understand where I'm coming from.

I've never seen any Christian - or any theist in general, actually - give any reasonable justification for even the existence of God. Everything I've ever seen is consistent with God simply being a human invention... but even if we that aside, I think that if I'm extremely generous and grant that there's no compelling evidence for or against the existencr of God, this still means that anyone making claims about God's nature, past deeds, future plans, or likes and dislikes is necessarily pulling all of it out of their butts.

Any conclusion that relies on the existence of God can't be any more certain than the conclusion that God exists at all... and my impression from talking to theists about this for more than a decade is that there's no good reason to be certain at all that God exists or that any particular religionis true.

This means that when you make claims about, say, how Jesus wants Christians to think about church, I feel safe in saying that these claims are complete fabrications. Maybe not by you personally, but by someone.

Short version: a theist who can't demonstrate that their god exists has no justification for any claims about their god.

Here's my short version, let's see how short I can make it here I am learning that God is not someone man can know God with his natural mind/brain. It comes natural as humans to try and figure everything out with OUR brains, natural. I've only been able to come to the realization of God and to hear Him, to sense that "still' small "quiet" voice when I like Psalm 46:10 says, "Be STILL, and KNOW that I am God." It can definitely, I'll say once more, "definitely" be a huge challenge to get to know someone that you don't see physically in the natural. It's where as humans we live in the natural realm, God, SUPERNatural realms. The unseen, or kind of, not until you get to KNOW Him more and more and He becomes more and more real to you. Such a thing cannot be grasped or experienced without His Spirit (The Holy Spirit) coming to live and dwell on the inside of you. Spirit = Supernatural you will hear Him with or through your own spirit and His, your spiritual ears so to say. I'm still learning to STOP!!!! And BE STILL, it's hard for me, I'm learning though, it comes over time with His help, like everything else, hence, it's a Relationship, NOT a religion. WOW!! yeah, right this is short huh

 

[GodInUs]

I've seen it happen plenty of times, so I wouldn't have been surprised if that was what you were doing, too.


I don't really care what the Bible says.

I mean, it's had a fair impact on our culture and language, but I certainly wouldn't be looking to it for divine wisdom when we haven't even established that there's a "divine" out there to dispense wisdom at all.

Yeah, I've had those same questions and wonders at a time in life too, but now like back in say late 90's oh wow, there are no words I can give to you. I grew up the whole churchanity and religious hum drum. You could've asked me if I believed in God, oh yeah absolutely for sure I would say blah blah blah. Sure I knew about Him, I didn't really know him though, I didn't even realize it. If someone told me otherwise I wouldn't have believed them at all. In the late 90's though, there are no words I can give you. It was literally out of this world, it was God like you don't see Him today, nope! I've been in services, SO MAAAAANY, they would say, "Oh, God's presence is here!" I would be like ugh yeah sure, guess it is if you say it is, durr! In the late 90's in my whole walk with God I had NEVER experienced God like I did and will again one day, I have no doubt of it. No one had to tell me, no one, no one had to tell me God's Presence was there, it wasn't in my head. In my inner man there was NO DOUBT (sorry about the caps), no doubt that I can't even put into human words what it was like, there are no words, no doubt, I couldn't doubt, it was beyond human comprehension or experience, it was a power and a Presence, it was better than sex I thought then, I was saying literally saying to myself in utter shock and amazement that people would die for this. It was something better than life on this earth, I'll just stop there. I just could go on and on, believe me, you know I can.

 

[YoursTrue]

'Funny?' What is that?

​

Very good. I can't say I like that in your vocabulary, but I do.

 

[GodInUs]

I agree that God is generally irrelevant. I don't see why the Bible is especially important, though.


Another way of expressing this same idea: the Bible incorporated ideas that have been common in many cultures.


Even better: we can just disregard the Bible.

Everything in it that's demonstrably good can be arrived at without it, while everything in it that's questionable or downright evil can be avoided.

Yeah as for the Bible, I have another thread if you look on my profile page, it says something like Do we limit God by placing to much emphasis upon the Bible today (paraphrased)? I have my questions, doubts and concerns, sure I won't lie, their not books of the Bible, their letters. But there's A LOT of things about the Bible that people say who profess to believe it and follow it. The Bible is not followed in its entirety, no it's not and anyone who says they do I'd be careful with, I'm careful with most people who participate in the whole Sunday morning ritual practices anyway. I don't judge them, but I can relate to them and I've been there done that. I wouldn't avoid them but I'm cautious because well I know the mentalities. I don't know it all but I'm VERY aware of the thinking and behaviors and all. It's not something I miss at all and I actually have a relationship with God now than when I was attending a service on Sunday's. It's more of a hindrance to me and when I was attending my relationship that I have now with God, nothing at all in comparison, I wouldn't even say I had a relationship with God then. Oh I thought I did, absolutely you wouldn't be able to convince me otherwise, looking back though, wow! I can definitely understand when people say they can't stand Christians.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yeah, I've had those same questions and wonders at a time in life too, but now like back in say late 90's oh wow, there are no words I can give to you.

I didn't say anything about any "questions or wonders."

 

[GodInUs]

I didn't say anything about any "questions or wonders."

Those probably wouldn't have been the choicest words to use for you, those were more for me when you were discussing the Bible I've had questions and wonders about it all, even with God too. So I shouldn't have said you but more me

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here's my short version, let's see how short I can make it here I am learning that God is not someone man can know God with his natural mind/brain. It comes natural as humans to try and figure everything out with OUR brains, natural. I've only been able to come to the realization of God and to hear Him, to sense that "still' small "quiet" voice when I like Psalm 46:10 says, "Be STILL, and KNOW that I am God." It can definitely, I'll say once more, "definitely" be a huge challenge to get to know someone that you don't see physically in the natural.

If you've defined your God in a way that you have no way to justify your belief that it exists, then, well, you have no way to justify your belief.

It's where as humans we live in the natural realm, God, SUPERNatural realms.

As I touched on earlier, I don't have much use for dividing the world into "natural" and "supernatural." Instead, I look at the world in terms of "things we have good reason to believe exist" and "things we don't."

It seems to me that people generally call things "supernatural" to make an excuse for the fact that they don't meet a normal standard of evidence. Personally, I'm not willing to compromise my standards just because someone calls a thing "supernatural."

The unseen, or kind of, not until you get to KNOW Him more and more and He becomes more and more real to you. Such a thing cannot be grasped or experienced without His Spirit (The Holy Spirit) coming to live and dwell on the inside of you. Spirit = Supernatural you will hear Him with or through your own spirit and His, your spiritual ears so to say. I'm still learning to STOP!!!! And BE STILL, it's hard for me, I'm learning though, it comes over time with His help, like everything else, hence, it's a Relationship, NOT a religion. WOW!! yeah, right this is short huh

From what you're describing, it sounds like you have to put a lot of work into convincing yourself that God is real before you'll feel like you have "confirmation" that God is real.

This doesn't strike me as a reliable pathway to truth.

 

[GodInUs]

If you've defined your God in a way that you have no way to justify your belief that it exists, then, well, you have no way to justify your belief.


As I touched on earlier, I don't have much use for dividing the world into "natural" and "supernatural." Instead, I look at the world in terms of "things we have good reason to believe exist" and "things we don't."

It seems to me that people generally call things "supernatural" to make an excuse for the fact that they don't meet a normal standard of evidence. Personally, I'm not willing to compromise my standards just because someone calls a thing "supernatural."



From what you're describing, it sounds like you have to put a lot of work into convincing yourself that God is real before you'll feel like you have "confirmation" that God is real.

This doesn't strike me as a reliable pathway to truth.

If you've defined your God in a way that you have no way to justify your belief that it exists, then, well, you have no way to justify your belief.

I'm not sure if you are or not, this is why I'll ask, but are you trying to figure God out with your mind, your brain knowledge? Because your wanting ME to justify to you, God. If so, if you can find a way to do that (which you won't) Please do let me know. Well that is if this is what your asking, is it?

 

[GodInUs]

As I touched on earlier, I don't have much use for dividing the world into "natural" and "supernatural."

I understand that you "don't have much use for dividing the world into "natural" and "supernatural" but just like me breathing, oh there's no doubt in me whatsoever of the supernatural. This is the main way I get to who and what God is like, definitely not through my own natural abilities. That's why I was wondering if this is something you were trying to have me do. Now don't get wrong here there are PLEEEEENTY of people, and it sounds like you and many others have come into contact with them, I'm sure you have, but like I've said before, "they think their going to get you saved." That's why their pests, annoying, I wanna slap or spray them with bug spray, hhhmm never tried that.

 

[GodInUs]

you have to put a lot of work into convincing yourself

That's funny, <sarcasm> oh tons you wouldn't believe it, too much work, its so tiring. Please tell me you believe me, please (laughing big time) <sarcasm> Your allowed to believe what and how you want to but as for me I have NO DOUBT there is a God. I don't even want to use the words "no doubt" its beyond that, but "ME" you want ME to try and convince you about God or of Him. He's not stupid, He's a big boy He can do that on His own. You will laugh at this more than likely, but He knows more about you, than you about, you. That may sound foolish or stupid to you, I wouldn't be surprised if so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure if you are or not, this is why I'll ask, but are you trying to figure God out with your mind, your brain knowledge?

No, I'm not. I'm saying that human knowledge and belief only happens in our minds, so anything that is beyond the human mind is something that no human being believes in.

Belief means conceiving of a thing as true, so we can't believe in what we can't even conceive.

Because your wanting ME to justify to you, God. If so, if you can find a way to do that (which you won't) Please do let me know. Well that is if this is what your asking, is it?

I didn't ask anything.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I understand that you "don't have much use for dividing the world into "natural" and "supernatural" but just like me breathing, oh there's no doubt in me whatsoever of the supernatural.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I mean that if someone else calls something "supernatural" and they give good reasons to believe that the thing exists, I'll agree that it exists; I just won't call it "supernatural."

This is the main way I get to who and what God is like, definitely not through my own natural abilities. That's why I was wondering if this is something you were trying to have me do.

What way do you have to know about a thing - like reliably be able to tell whether it's true - that doesn't involve your "natural abilities?"