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"I trust in Jesus for my salvation"

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
erm said:
The literal meaning of "I trust in Jesus for my salvation" is "Jesus calls the shots. Whatever he says about getting saved, I will believe."....
A person must at least know Jesus a little bit and trust in whatever Jesus says about salvation in order for the statement " I trust in Jesus for my salvation" to be true.
What you have here is a system by which you seek to explain the statements in the NT rather than an absolute definition of anything. Another thing you have is an argument: a set of words by which you seek to convince and capture people.

I see a conflict between what you are saying and, say, James chapter 1 and with Matthew chapter 7. The theme seems to be that anyone can receive wisdom from God (as opposed to only those who perform the appropriate Jewish rites and prayers). Matthew 7 even contains that very famous and serious statement "Many will say to me in that day 'Have we not prophesied in thy name?...'" Here we see that even those who believe they are operating in his name can in fact be deceived while those who do not believe they are can in fact be doing so! That is the opposite of what you have said. James goes so far as to say that every good thing comes down from the Father of lights. Therefore if someone is doing good, if anyone has benefited then it has been from the Father. These doctrines were upsetting to many when they were first taught, but they are the reason that there is no huge list of things a person must do or believe. In the final analysis it doesn't matter what you believe if you are taking care of children and the poor and living with kindness justice and peace toward everyone. That is after all what religion is all about, true religion I mean.
 
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e.r.m.

Church of Christ
What you have here is a system by which you seek to explain the statements in the NT rather than an absolute definition of anything. Another thing you have is an argument: a set of words by which you seek to convince and capture people.

I see a conflict between what you are saying and, say, James chapter 1 and with Matthew chapter 7. The theme seems to be that anyone can receive wisdom from God (as opposed to only those who perform the appropriate Jewish rites and prayers). Matthew 7 even contains that very famous and serious statement "Many will say to me in that day 'Have we not prophesied in thy name?...'" Here we see that even those who believe they are operating in his name can in fact be deceived while those who do not believe they are can in fact be doing so! That is the opposite of what you have said. James goes so far as to say that every good thing comes down from the Father of lights. Therefore if someone is doing good, if anyone has benefited then it has been from the Father. These doctrines were upsetting to many when they were first taught, but they are the reason that there is no huge list of things a person must do or believe. In the final analysis it doesn't matter what you believe if you are taking care of children and the poor and living with kindness justice and peace toward everyone. That is after all what religion is all about, true religion I mean.
James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. [18] He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Talks about what we receive from the Father, not what we do, like

Matthew 5:45 ...He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Where does it say that those who do not helieve they are can in fact be doing so?

You can't throw out a requirement for belief because Jesus has establshed it
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

I see no conflict.

There is no scriptural definition of I trust in Jesus for my salvation because that phrase isn't in the Bible.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
I think to believe or place one's trust in Jesus for salvation in the biblical context means that one is totally in agreement with God that Jesus life, death, and resurrection alone provides salvation. One's complete trust and reliance is upon Christ's finished work for forgiveness of sins, to live a new changed life at present and have hope of eternal life.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
erm said:
James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. [18] He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Talks about what we receive from the Father, not what we do, like
It would be convenient to your argument were that the case. Some of the good gifts from above are people, such as 'The poor'. The poor are not educated and often cannot read. The wealthy and wise people tend to sweep them under the rug and to feel that these are somehow less spiritual. Clever people tend to think they should teach, but James says that the wise and understanding should show their wisdom through a good life and good works. Those who are wealthy in understanding who are not in Christ lord it over those who are ignorant. They do it by talking, by dragging them to courts and by judging them on the quality of their attire, their speech, manners and knowledge.
Matthew 5:45 ...He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Where does it say that those who do not helieve they are can in fact be doing so?

There is more than one example, but one of them is Revelation 3:14-18 " ....These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.... You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."

You can't throw out a requirement for belief because Jesus has establshed it
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

To begin with you have already thrown out most of John 3, despite quoting verse 18. You want to define 'Faith' in such as way as to suit your argument, but the word used is 'Pistis' which can be either belief or obedience depending, and verse 18 is part of a dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus which closes with " This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." In other words Jesus denounced some people, saying they had not listened to him because they were evildoers. You want to make this part of a very complex argument about believing the right doctrines, which couldn't be further from Jesus point of view. Walk carefully for you may find yourself taking the same position as the opponents of Jesus.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
I think to believe or place one's trust in Jesus for salvation in the biblical context means that one is totally in agreement with God that Jesus life, death, and resurrection alone provides salvation. One's complete trust and reliance is upon Christ's finished work for forgiveness of sins, to live a new changed life at present and have hope of eternal life.
What about Also the things Jesus actually says about salvation?
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
It would be convenient to your argument were that the case. Some of the good gifts from above are people, such as 'The poor'. The poor are not educated and often cannot read. The wealthy and wise people tend to sweep them under the rug and to feel that these are somehow less spiritual. Clever people tend to think they should teach, but James says that the wise and understanding should show their wisdom through a good life and good works. Those who are wealthy in understanding who are not in Christ lord it over those who are ignorant. They do it by talking, by dragging them to courts and by judging them on the quality of their attire, their speech, manners and knowledge.
The Bible never described the poor as a gift.

There is more than one example, but one of them is Revelation 3:14-18 " ....These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.... You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."
This is an example of the opposite, not an example of those don't believe they are, but actually are.

To begin with you have already thrown out most of John 3, despite quoting verse 18. You want to define 'Faith' in such as way as to suit your argument, but the word used is 'Pistis' which can be either belief or obedience depending, and verse 18 is part of a dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus which closes with " This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." In other words Jesus denounced some people, saying they had not listened to him because they were evildoers. You want to make this part of a very complex argument about believing the right doctrines, which couldn't be further from Jesus point of view. Walk carefully for you may find yourself taking the same position as the opponents of Jesus.
Not complicated at all. Trusting in Jesus for one's salvation is believing in what Jesus did and said. I believe in the rest of chapter 3 as well.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
On this world there is. But I do not know what you are asking.

I believe that when the Bible speaks of being saved it means to be delivered, like a package. We can help people along the way to the place where they are going. Psalm 23 The supreme helper imo is Yehoshua Messiah. I believe he knows the way. We do not. A frubal for talking to me :D

I am asking what there is to be saved from.

I mean, if there was no danger, there would be no need for saving, right?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I am asking what there is to be saved from.

I mean, if there was no danger, there would be no need for saving, right?

How about eternal darkness?

You can't get out of your body.
You did not put you in that parcel of flesh.
You cannot go anywhere without it.
You have to maintain the chemistry just for the coming of another day.

That will end.
Into the box you go.
Into the ground goes the box.

Still in there?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am asking what there is to be saved from.

I mean, if there was no danger, there would be no need for saving, right?

The danger is losing one's way. There are people who are glad if you lose your way. If you do not make it to the destination (I do not know what it is) other people who have not made it will feel better than they would if they knew it is something good to obtain.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
How about eternal darkness?

You can't get out of your body.
You did not put you in that parcel of flesh.
You cannot go anywhere without it.
You have to maintain the chemistry just for the coming of another day.

That will end.
Into the box you go.
Into the ground goes the box.

Still in there?

Your answer relies on my being afraid of death.
I am not.

your answer also assumes I need the idea of there being something beyond death to not fear death.
I do not.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
The danger is losing one's way. There are people who are glad if you lose your way. If you do not make it to the destination (I do not know what it is) other people who have not made it will feel better than they would if they knew it is something good to obtain.

So what is this destination so many people are concerned with losing their way to?
and why is not making it to said destination a bad thing?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So what is this destination so many people are concerned with losing their way to?

I believe the problem is people are NOT concerned with losing their way. Most people I know are way way too confident it seems. But sometimes their confidence is misplaced. They trust dogma and not spirit. I do not know what they think their destination is. My destination is whatever the reward for a good performance is. I shall call it Happy Rest.

why is not making it to said destination a bad thing?

I don't know.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I believe the problem is people are NOT concerned with losing their way. Most people I know are way way too confident it seems. But sometimes their confidence is misplaced. They trust dogma and not spirit. I do not know what they think their destination is. My destination is whatever the reward for a good performance is. I shall call it Happy Rest.
If you do not know where the destination is, how do you know you are not on the right path?

I don't know.
Fair enough.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you do not know where the destination is, how do you know you are not on the right path?
I believe I did not say the destination is a where. It is a what.
How do I know I am not on the right path? I wonder if you mean to be funny? I think you mean how do I know I am on the right path. I only suspect I am. I don't know much.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I believe I did not say the destination is a where. It is a what.
Hmmm...
I see that you did.
My mistake.


How do I know I am not on the right path? I wonder if you mean to be funny?
Funny?
How so?


I think you mean how do I know I am on the right path. I only suspect I am. I don't know much.
So in essence, you do not know if you are not on the right path {I.E. are on the wrong path} to reach your destination any more than you know if you are on the right path?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I feel like I should apologize to the original poster going a little off track like this. Please accept my apology. I can't not answer a question.

Funny?
How so?
The way it is worded is funny. A double negative. Saying how my head feels would be going way off topic.

So in essence, you do not know if you are not on the right path {I.E. are on the wrong path} to reach your destination any more than you know if you are on the right path?
I know I am on the right path much more than I don't know I am on the right path. And both of those I know more than that I am on the wrong path. There actually isn't a wrong path according to Jesus because what isn't a path way is a broad way.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
I feel like I should apologize to the original poster going a little off track like this. Please accept my apology. I can't not answer a question.

The way it is worded is funny. A double negative. Saying how my head feels would be going way off topic.


I know I am on the right path much more than I don't know I am on the right path. And both of those I know more than that I am on the wrong path. There actually isn't a wrong path according to Jesus because what isn't a path way is a broad way.

No need, but thanks :)
 
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