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I think i may convert to islam

Faih

New Member
Its mostly due to scholarly stuff on Jesus. Like ebionites stuff, historicity of Jesus (Watched some stuff by Bart Ehrman) etc that i've figured that islam seem to make most sense i feel.

Although i dont trust Hadiths, and i have some doubts whether quran is 100% well preserved. Considering manuscript differences. But still, there seem to be somewhat more correct in the case of Jesus... i dunno to be honest : 3. But its like religions claims this and that. So its more interesting i guess.

But i wonder if i can have some help on the quran. I have read it two times. One times unchronological (Basically as it is). And chronologically (The datings when it was revealed).

I have read it and i kinda get some stuff about it. Yet its so hard to understand, like some stuff are really convoluted. Just wondering what you guys think
 
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Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Its mostly due to scholarly stuff on Jesus. Like ebionites stuff, historicity of Jesus (Watched some stuff by Bart Ehrman) etc that i've figured that islam seem to make most sense i feel.

Although i dont trust Hadiths, and i have some doubts whether quran is 100% well preserved. Considering manuscript differences. But still, there seem to be somewhat more correct in the case of Jesus... i dunno to be honest : 3. But its like religions claims this and that. So its more interesting i guess.

But i wonder if i can have some help on the quran. I have read it two times. One times unchronological (Basically as it is). And chronologically (The datings when it was revealed).

I have read it and i kinda get some stuff about it. Yet its so hard to understand, like some stuff are really convoluted. Just wondering what you guys think

Good Luck...
Don't hesitate to ask me any question that comes to your mind...
and hopefully you would be satisfied with my answers
 

Explorer

New Member
If I were to make a decision like the one you are confronted with, I would consider things like, human rights, gender equality, homophobia, tolerance for different opinions, discrimination and social justice.
Then I would consider the claims that a particular paradigm makes and the reality that prevails. Just a thought. Hope this is helpful.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I explored Islam for a short time, and I can see so much good in it. But, I don't believe that the Qur'an is the 'word of god.' Do you believe that to be the case?
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I think what you can accept as the word of God depends on what you would expect from an all knowing and perfect deity
If someone follows Islam, he/she believes that the Qur'an is the word of god. If he/she does not believe that, then he/she isn't following Islam. How one reasons and interprets the Qur'an is one thing, but at the base of it, one needs to believe that the Qur'an is at the very least...inspired from Allah.
 

Faih

New Member
If someone follows Islam, he/she believes that the Qur'an is the word of god. If he/she does not believe that, then he/she isn't following Islam. How one reasons and interprets the Qur'an is one thing, but at the base of it, one needs to believe that the Qur'an is at the very least...inspired from Allah.
Much quranic dispersancy exists if one look at old manuscripts and compare it with the modern ones. So its highly likely that its not as it was back then, since they differ so much from each other
Well, you can convert, and if you change your mind...you can leave it. That's the way religion should be. It's not a prison, if you dislike it or find that it doesn't suit your personal world view, you can depart from it.
More of a truth seeker. Although i have objections. Like i am not a blind sheep in general. I for example dont believe gospels are written by eyewitnesses nor people who knew them. And there are so much differences in early christianity like paul the apostle and ebionites etc.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Much quranic dispersancy exists if one look at old manuscripts and compare it with the modern ones. So its highly likely that its not as it was back then, since they differ so much from each other

More of a truth seeker. Although i have objections. Like i am not a blind sheep in general. I for example dont believe gospels are written by eyewitnesses nor people who knew them. And there are so much differences in early christianity like paul the apostle and ebionites etc.

It's interesting you say all this, because when I explored Islam, I too felt this way. Faith is a personal thing but religion does come with a set of rules, and stories and ideas that cause it to be categorized under a particular religion. Islam isn't what we wish to make it...to follow it is to follow Islam. I understand your point though.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
It's interesting you say all this, because when I explored Islam, I too felt this way. Faith is a personal thing but religion does come with a set of rules, and stories and ideas that cause it to be categorized under a particular religion. Islam isn't what we wish to make it...to follow it is to follow Islam. I understand your point though.
Hey friend , nice that you said faith is a personal thing .
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Hey friend , nice that you said faith is a personal thing .
well hello :) while there are things we disagree on, i think you are a kind and loving religious person, godobeyer. as least to me, i've seen this. only if everyone could carry their religion like that.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
But i find it weird why muhammad would need info from the people of the book when he is the messenger of allah?
Surat Yunus [10:94] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

The people of the book received prophets and messengers. This verse is if u doubt the angel gabriel and the revelation we sent you, then ask the people of the book about the Oneness of Allah, angel Gabriel. Also in the scriptures of jews and christians it mentions the coming of a prophet.


If you really want to be muslim then u have every right to explore first Islam. After exploring, make then decision weither u want to embrace islam or not.

[Through a messenger, saying], "Do not worship except Allah . Indeed, I am( Prophet Muhammad PBUH) to you from Him a warner and a bringer of good tiding.

And [saying], "Seek forgiveness of your Lord and repent to Him, [and] He will let you enjoy a good provision for a specified term and give every doer of favor his favor. But if you turn away, then indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a great Day.



The messenger of Allah pbuh was the best advisor, comfortor and the best in delivering the message from his Lord. He did so in love for the ummah, for their care, he wants for them to enter Paradise by the mercy of Allah.

Well, you can convert, and if you change your mind...you can leave it. That's the way religion should be. It's not a prison, if you dislike it or find that it doesn't suit your personal world view, you can depart from it.
i agree with this notion. Yes there is freedom to believe and disbelieve.
 
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DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.................

I have read it and i kinda get some stuff about it. Yet its so hard to understand, like some stuff are really convoluted. Just wondering what you guys think
Peace be on you....If you like to read how verses of Holy Quran provides guidance for various issues in human life, here are three (of several) Ahmadiyya-Muslim resources:

https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
The Physical, Moral and Spiritual States of Man
The State of Man after Death
The Object of Man’s Life and the Means of its Attainment
The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in this Life and the Next
Sources of Divine Knowledge

==========================================

https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf
Inter-Religious Peace
Social Peace
Socio-economic Peace
Economic Peace
Political Peace
Individual Peace

===========================================

https://www.alislam.org/library/books/World-Crisis-and-Pathway-to-Peace.pdf
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/World-Crisis-and-Pathway-to-Peace.pdf
Islamic Perspective on the Global Crisis
Islam’s Teachings of Loyalty and Love for One’s Nation
The Devastating Consequences of a Nuclear War and the Critical Need For Absolute Justice
The Path to Peace—Just Relations Between Nations
The Key to Peace—Global Unity
Can Muslims Integrate Into Western Societies?

and

Letters to the World Leaders
 

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
Its mostly due to scholarly stuff on Jesus. Like ebionites stuff, historicity of Jesus (Watched some stuff by Bart Ehrman) etc that i've figured that islam seem to make most sense i feel.

Although i dont trust Hadiths, and i have some doubts whether quran is 100% well preserved. Considering manuscript differences. But still, there seem to be somewhat more correct in the case of Jesus... i dunno to be honest : 3. But its like religions claims this and that. So its more interesting i guess.

But i wonder if i can have some help on the quran. I have read it two times. One times unchronological (Basically as it is). And chronologically (The datings when it was revealed).

I have read it and i kinda get some stuff about it. Yet its so hard to understand, like some stuff are really convoluted. Just wondering what you guys think


Hi,

In regards to understanding the quran I would suggest you to watch the lectures by nouman Ali khan he is a founder of all bayyinah institute he focuses on teaching,explaining the Qur'an and how to understand it linguistically..and the best way to understand the message of the Quran. Its aimed towards Muslims and non Muslims living in the western society who don't speak Arabic. I think this will be good for anyone Muslims or non Muslims who wishes to understand what the Quran is and what it teaches.

I'll post a link when I'm using my computer
 

TheSounding

village idiot
Howdy,

I am a convert to Islam, so I would be happy to discuss with you my journey and beliefs. What I believe is very different from most Muslims because I take a Western scientific approach and I don't eat what is fed to me. I don't accept what people say Islam is just because it is traditional or popular.

First, I don't believe in supernatural phenomena, and so Muhammad was not visited by an angel, rather he came to conclusions through reflection. Second, I believe Muhammad was a Christian in that he lived by values inspired by the teachings of Jesus. Third, every prophet in the Quran is referencing Muhammad. They are all parables of him. If these points intrigue you then I'd be happy to chat more. I think you would find it enjoyable.

I take an analytical and realistic approach to Islam. The Quran doesn't define the world, the world defines the Quran.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.......First, I don't believe in supernatural phenomena, and so Muhammad was not visited by an angel, rather he came to conclusions through reflection.
Peace be on you. Welcome.
Hopefully following line (and the whole chapter from reference) will be beneficial.

Holy Quran
[ch2:v98]
Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel — for he it is who has caused it to descend on thy heart by the command of Allah, which fulfils that which precedes it, and is a guidance and glad tidings to the believers —

[41:31]
As for those who say, ‘Our Lord is Allah,’ and then remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, saying: ‘Fear ye not, nor grieve; and rejoice in the Garden that you were promised.

===========================================

"..If we widen the scope of our study, we observe that many authentic cases of revelation are also reported outside the domain of religion................The major religions of the world believe that their prophets and also many other holy men received revelation from an external source called God. Others consider this to be a mistaken inference and do not accuse them of wilful fraud, since they could genuinely have mistaken a purely internal experience for a message received from an external source. But if this was so, then the foundations of all the so-called Divine religions would be on very shaky ground. The truth of such claims could only be proved if ample external evidence supports it..............the genuineness of revelation is more reliably identified by outsiders with the help of external evidence. The external evidence may be available to contemporary people, or it may not be available because it may emerge later in time with the emergence of things which are predicted. None could have imagined them because they belong to a future era of knowledge and discovery. The truth of such revelations are in fact meant to convince the people of later ages whose advanced knowledge testifies to the truth of Divine revelations of the past. Hence it is not at all difficult, for the observers as well, to distinguish between psychic experiences on the one hand, and genuine communication from God on the other...."
Ref: The Nature of Revelation
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/revelation/part_4_section_1.html

==========================================

THE BELIEF IN THE ANGELS @ Angels
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/books/study-of-islam/angels.html

==========================================

https://www.alislam.org/library/links/Miracles-and-the-Law-of-Nature.html
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/links/Miracles-and-the-Law-of-Nature.html


Second, I believe Muhammad was a Christian in that he lived by values inspired by the teachings of Jesus.
"The Prophet’s sa Religion Prior to his Commission
Since Islām with its detailed injunctions was revealed later, no one can claim or has ever asserted that the Holy Prophet sa was a follower of Islāmic injunctions prior to its revelation. However, it is evidently proven from history that the Holy Prophet sa in conformity to his pure nature, always refrained from the filthy rituals of the Arab society and never practised idolatry. Therefore, during the time of his prophethood, the Holy Prophet sa used to say to Ḥaḍrat ‘Ā’ishahra, “I have never eaten from the sacrificial offerings made to idols”. 1 Ḥaḍrat ‘Alīra relates in a narration that once someone said to the Holy Prophet sa, “O Messenger of Allāh, have you ever worshiped idols?” The Prophet sa replied, “No.” Then the people inquired, “Have you ever consumed alcohol?” The Prophet sa responded, “No.” Then he said, “I have always detested these things, but prior to Islām, I had no knowledge of religious law or faith”. 2

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 As-Sīratul-Ḥalbiyyah, By ‘Allāmah Abul-Farj Nūr-ud-Dīn ‘Alī bin Ibrāhīm, Volume 1, p. 180, Bābu Mā Ḥafiẓahullāhu Ta‘ālā bihī fī Ṣigharihīsa min Amril-Jāhiliyyah, Dārul-Kutubil-‘Ilmiyyah, Beirut, First Edition (2002)

2 As-Sīratul-Ḥalbiyyah, By ‘Allāmah Abul-Faraj Nūr-ud-Dīn ‘Alī bin Ibrāhīm, Volume 1, p. 182, Bābu Mā Ḥafiẓahullāhu Ta‘ālā bihī fī Ṣigharihīsa min Amril-Jāhiliyyah, Dārul-Kutubil-‘Ilmiyyah, Beirut, First Edition (2002)

Ref: Page 161 @ https://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/Seal-of-Prophets-Vol-1.pdf
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/holyprophet/Seal-of-Prophets-Vol-1.pdf



Third, every prophet in the Quran is referencing Muhammad. They are all parables of him.
They were the most pious persons of their times.

[4:167]Surely, We have sent revelation to thee, as We sent revelation to Noah and the Prophets after him; and We sent revelation to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and his children and to Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave David a Book.

They gave news about Holy Prophet (pbuh).
Moreover:
Al Islam Ahmadiyya - Media Library - Audio and Video Archive
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/r.php?q=muhammad%20in%20bible

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/links/in_vedas.html



The Quran doesn't define the world, the world defines the Quran.

[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds.
The word is used 'aalameen' it is plural of world. At the time of coming of Quran, people did not know any other world.

People still are not sure about Extraterrestrial life, Quran is:
".......

specific verse on the existence of extraterrestrial life runs as follows:
Arabic_Page330_2.gif

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures (da'bbah) He has spread forth in both...2

Da'bbah covers all animals which creep or move along the surface of the earth. It does not apply to animals which fly or swim. It is certainly not applicable to any form of spiritual life. In Arabic a ghost will never be referred to as da'bbah, nor an angel for that matter. The second part of the same verse speaks not only of the possibility of extraterrestrial life, but it categorically declares that it does exist—a claim which even the most modern scientific researchers have not been able to make so far with any measure of certainty. Yet, this is not all that this verse reveals. Wonder upon wonder is added when we read at the end of this verse, that He (Allah) will bring together the life in the heavenly bodies and the life on earth when He so pleases:

Arabic_Page331.gif

...And He has the power to gather them together (jam-'i-him) when He will so please.3

Jam-'i-him is the Arabic expression in this verse which specifically speaks of bringing together of life on earth and the life elsewhere. When this meeting of the two will take place is not specified, nor is it mentioned whether it will happen here on earth or elsewhere. One thing however, is definitely stated: this event will most certainly come to pass whenever God so desires. It should be kept in mind that the word jama' can imply either a physical contact or a contact through communication. Only the future will tell how and when this contact will take place, but the very fact that more than fourteen hundred years ago such a possibility was even predicted is miraculous in itself.

This revelation of the Quran was made at a time when cosmology as a science was not yet born. A different age of conjectural visualization prevailed which had to go a long way before it could contemplate the existence of extraterrestrial life. Even today such claims are only found in science fiction....."
Ref:The Quran and Extraterrestrial Life
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/revelation/part_4_section_7.html

[7:55] Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods; then He settled Himself on the Throne. He makes the night cover the day, which pursues it swiftly. And He created the sun and the moon and the stars, all made subservient by His command. Verily, His is the creation and the command. Blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

Ref: alislam.org/quran

[38:67] ‘The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between the two, the Mighty, the Great Forgiver.’

Good wishes.
 

TheSounding

village idiot
Peace be on you. Welcome.
Hopefully following line (and the whole chapter from reference) will be beneficial.
Good wishes.

Thanks for the welcome. And unto you be peace.

Some years ago I practiced popular Islam but found myself doubting, something which the Quran declares its message is absent of—doubt. I had trouble accepting the Quran at face value. It didn't make sense to me that fundamentals of the religion would be taken on faith when the religion was clearly against faith/conjecture, rather the religion insisted on truth/evidence. So I decided to approach Islam in a new way. I assumed two things: that Muhammad was capable of knowing only what his culture dictated, and that he experienced nothing unique apart from the natural human experience. I began putting myself in Muhammad's shoes, reading the codex of his life—Quran—and reflecting on how he felt about life and how he viewed himself.

You cited the verse:

“Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel, let him know that it was He Who made him descend upon your heart, by God’s leave, confirming His revelation, a guidance and glad tidings to the faithful.”

First, there is no documentation, no examination of angelic beings beyond which is anecdotal, meaning there is no factual basis for interpreting ‘angels' as literal beings. It is not certain they exist. Although, when figuring that Gabriel is a metaphor for inspiration (Holy Spirit) the above verse becomes relevant, for each of us has felt some kind of inspiration. Second, my interpretation is this: how can one deny that God 'sent down' inspiration when God is the ‘Lord of the Worlds’, when He originates everything, when He is the created of all things?

You cited the verse:

“As for those who say ‘Our Lord is God’ and are upright in deed, angels shall be made to descend upon them:
‘Fear not, and do not grieve. Here are glad tidings of the Garden which you were promised.”

I would read this here verse in addition:

“Happy is the Abode of the pious: the Gardens of Eden that they enter, beneath which rivers flow, in which they shall find all that they desire. Thus does God reward the pious. It is they whom the angels carry away in death, being pure. They tell them: ‘Peace be upon you! Enter the Garden in recompense for your deeds.’ [16:32]”

My interpretation is that the call to happiness is the real appeal of the message. Happiness in life, happiness now. 'Happy is the Abode of the pious'. Heaven is the metaphor for that. When I read 16:32 and keep in mind Muhammad's compassion for humanity's suffering, and that he sought to soothe them by drawing them under his authority, by granting them ‘Heaven’ — when realizing that and appreciating the way it's presented in poetry, I feel like weeping in elation because it is evident he embodied Mercy. There is no doubt. It's certain.

Clairvoyance is something of fantasy. It has not been documented outside of ancient tales. The same goes for alleged scientific miracles. Alleged miracles go beyond anything we can replicate and test. One shouldn't hinge their faith on such.

“We brought down upon you signs and wonders most EVIDENT; only the dissolute can disbelieve in them. Can it be that every time they make a covenant, a group of them disavows it? In truth, most of them have no faith. [2:100]”

Notice the mention of evidence and covenant. It is the covenant to guarantee happiness by Mercy.

Like with all other religions, the religion's founder is always held to a degree above the natural human condition. It is said they experienced what others have not. But in any case there is no certainty that they had such experiences or conditions. It is doubtful, which is something Islam is clearly against. Conjecture only causes confusion, and confusion conflict.

And you cited this verse:

“We have revealed to you, as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, the Tribes; to Jesus, Job and Jonah, Aaron and Solomon; and We revealed the Psalms to David: prophets whose stories We narrated to you already and prophets whose stories We have not narrated to you – And God spoke to Moses in plain speech – prophets, bringers of glad tidings as well as warners, lest mankind have any argument with God after their coming. God is Almighty, All-Wise. [4:165]”

Warren Bennis Leadership Theory | AdviseAmerica.com

Warren Bennis is the man who has pioneered the modern study of leadership. His analysis of what makes an effective leader led him to conclude that there are three traits:

1. Humbleness. Being a leader isn’t about making yourself popular or famous. It’s about leading a team to be better than they are without you and giving them the credit for their results. In other words, you’re an equal member of the team, just one with the role of a leader.

2. Humanistic: Great leaders can’t just see in black and white because humanity operates within shades of grey. That’s why leaders take a humanistic perspective and make an effort to see where their team is coming from because that’s how a leader can help guide the team to where they need to go. That doesn’t mean all decisions, ethics, or moralities aren’t defined, but it does mean that many circumstances don’t need an equal level of definition.

3. Democratic: The chain-of-command works in the military because there are times when you need a soldier to do what they’re told so they don’t die. That one second when they question an order could literally be the moment that a bullet or mortar strikes them! The business world isn’t the same environment as the military, for example, which means it shouldn’t have the same attitude either. Bennis found, in fact, that the leaders who incorporate the opinions and perspectives of their entire team would be more effective over the long term than those who dictated circumstances.

My point in citing this is to show that Muhammad clearly adhered to these principles and was not egocentric. His style of leadership was exactly this, humble, compassionate (humanistic) and merciful (democratic). By focusing attention on the tales of prophets past, he was able to address certain aspects of his being and message without being pretentious. He a friendly man of grace.

Here is why I say Muhammad lived by Christian values, notice the connection:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)”

“To you has come a messenger, from among your number,
Aggrieved by the hardship you suffer,
Concerned for you,
Tender and compassionate towards the believers.
If they turn away, say: ‘God suffices me. There is no god but He. In Him I trust. Lord of the great throne is He.’ [Q. 9:129]”

The principle of my interpretation isn't unique to just me. There are certain persuasions of Islam that interpret likewise. If you are interested in discussing those you can send me a PM. And it is interesting you cited Ahmadiyya sources. I am curious as to why you fancy that persuasion.

God bless.
 
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