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Featured I love this Muslima her ideas on Islam

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by stvdv, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I love this Muslima her ideas on Islam. How she explains it, I could be a Muslim, I think. Very refreshing.

    She fights for the freedom to have a personal relationship with Allah
    Do not impose your ideas on others. Leave others free in their interpretation
    No need to have Imaams teach you the "how and what" about Islaam; unless you chose so

    She just addressed all the points, that I felt uncomfortable with in Islam; many others might feel the opposite
    47minutes in total; bit long, but I enjoyed it, and being locked in my house .. plenty of time to watch
    I was happy to see, that I can Love Islam also, in the way she practises Islam

    Great to see, that Middle East and West are maybe getting closer; starting to talk is a good first step.

    I liked many parts: just to mention a few; these 5min:
    26m15s: She was kicked out asking too many questions
    27m40s: Or maybe because being different than others
    28m30s: Friendly Imaam telling he disagrees throwing women out, when asking too many questions
    28m45s: Woman shares experience about brutal Islam in Middle East, but now in West she is happy to be free to speak out, and now she is happy being Muslima
    30m15s: Really a "topper" how she explains Islam supremacist; I fully agree with her on this

    *Note: Normally I can start youtube exactly on 26m15s, but seems not to work on RF, corrrect?
     
    #1 stvdv, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  2. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Real firecracker, that one! :eek::D
     
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  3. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Perfectly said. Amazing woman, beautiful to see "That girl is on Fire", reminds me of my favorite youtube "girl"

     
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  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The video is interesting, and does address, in a fashion, the problems Islam faces today, but it is too idealistic as far as expectations of change. The Quran was written in a different age and time when tribalism ruled, and that still remains the same today, as the different sects of Islam center around tribal difference.

    The concept of independent thinking (Ijtihad) she refers to in the Baha'i Faith as the Independent Search for Truth. This principle flourished in Islam up until the 13th century, but not in the contemporary world.
     
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  5. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    This is a great video, at least the indicated segment.

    @shunyadragon has a pessimistic view of all traditional religions including Islam because doctrine from all religions is from a different time.

    From my optimistic viewpoint, there is a positive influence struggling for expression in all religions including Islam. Of course this energy is facing opposition because that's how human nature operates. But my belief is that the positive energy will win.
     
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  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Actually I go with most of the above, but I believe it is more realistic to realize the problems inherent in ancient religions and worldviews if that is the singular basis for their sense of community and belonging, which for the most part it is the main reason people believe as they do, and relate to others who believe differently. .

    What I described about the independent thinking (Ijtihad) in the history of Islam and the contemporary state of Islam today is accurate.
     
  8. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    One issue is speaking in terms of "Islam" as if it were a monolith like the Catholic Church. Islam is a very diverse religion as are all the other major traditional religions.

    That written, I do agree that traditionalist and fanatical Muslims are fighting against the resurgence of ijtihad.
     
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  9. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I watched the whole thing and I applaud Irshad Manji for her courage in speaking honestly and frankly.

    She is a brave Muslima :)
     
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  10. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Yes. She is incredibly brave, as a Muslima, to speak out.The West encouraged to speak our mind. In Middle East women have less freedom to do so.
     
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    My view takes into consideration the diversity in Islam, and by the way Christianity. By the way despite the diversity they use the same scriptures, and many concepts and the problems particularly their relationships with those that believe differently, are uniform throughout most of the religions.

    The problem is that these beliefs are justifiable by referring to ancient scriptures and the tribal nature of the culture. By considering the ancient scriptures even slavery may be justified by the ancient scriptures in recent history.

    A comparable example is the prevalent view of the science of evolution and the history of the universe. Forty percent + of all Christians do not accept the science, because the scriptures tell them so.

    Actually the fundamentalist movements are growing in both religions, violence and the deteriorating relationship is growing with those that believe different in recent history based on what is taught in their scriptures.
     
    #11 shunyadragon, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  12. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Nice video. I've seen her speak before but it was years ago. I'm trying to find it.
     
  13. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I think I saw her speak with Salman Rushdie once or something.
     
  14. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly a typical Hollywood ending. But after reading the plot it seems like a good movie.
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Was my first YouTube I saw of her. And seeing this, I am interested to see some more
    Maybe you saw her in one in this list?
    salman rushdie Irshad Manji - YouTube

    Good to see, that Muslims in the West open up more to our Western way of "Freedom to think for your self". One of the good ones we have here.
     
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  16. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    I watched it in its entirety and I have the following questions: As a non-believer in both the Islam ideology and in the Quran as a perfect infallible document from God

    Irshad comes right out and says the following - correct me if I am wrong

    1. The "moderate" muslims are milquetoasts conceding the high ground to the extremists / fundamentalist section
    2. She considers herself a reformist Muslim
    3. She thinks certain verses in the Quran are wrong / misinterpreted / outdated and need to be called out - Ergo - is she advocating for changes to the Quran?

    If so - then that is tantamount to invalidating the entire "given by god" religious premise - that is the way of life and the very foundation of Islam - whether it is Itjihad or Sharia or whatever else

    If the Quran needs to be changed - then IMHO it is similar to some Christians acknowledging that neither the virgin birth nor the resurrection are likely - the entire organized faith would then collapse as there is no raison d'être - sure those - like Irshad - that want to be Muslim - can of course continue to be - but the claim of "comes from god" and is "the way of life" goes entirely by the wayside.
     
  17. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Interesting points, I can’t really claim to speak for Irshad, but from what I understood she sees it more as her way of life rather than being “the way of life” for all. I got that impression because she rejects what she calls Islamosupremacism.
     
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  18. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    I would tend to agree - but then at the risk of derailing the thread - I would ask - what is left between the Islamic and Christian message devoid of its special significance and that laid down by Sanatan Dharma - eons ago - if you have read the Gita and aspects of Advaita Vedanta - there is essentially nothing "new" that either Christianity or Islam offer (to my way of thinking) other than the micro managing and the way of life directions for everything from lending money - to behavior towards "other unbelievers" to "laying down with people of one's own gender"

    Take those outdated laws out of the way - and the differences melt away pretty rapidly - completing the circle I dare say Irshad has not done a study of Advaita Vedanta - else she'd be singing a different tune IMHO
     
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  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I think there would still be key differences, for example if I remember correctly she identifies her belief in an eventual ultimate judgement day where individuals have to face Allah. How would that fit in with concepts such as re-incarnation, liberation etc?
     
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  20. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    You are correct - there is no "judgment day" in the dharmic faiths AFAIK - that is purely an Abrahamic concept - based on the concept of divine retribution - as far as the eastern philosophy goes - birth - being separated from the divine - is all the hell there is. When one's karma is to the point where the good outstrips the not-so-good - one is eligible to merge with the essence and be freed from the cycle of rebirth. But I am sure you were aware of that ... :)
     
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