Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
I only recently learned of the "TERF" movement, I was suprised it even existed, and was kind of shocked at how transphobic some of the rhetoric is - seeing MTF transexuals as "infiltrators" etc.
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- Thread starter Debater Slayer
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Yes, there's some problems within feminism as a whole. Oppressive socio-economic structures and ideologies tend to **** on the most marginalized regardless of the intentions of the group and/or movement. We're still quite misogynist overall, quite racist, quite homophobic, quite bi-phobic, quite trans-phobic, quite ableist, quite ageist, quite classist, and quite fat-phobic as a culture, and feminism is still seeing itself not immune to these hurdles. We as a whole need to do better to stop continuing ****ing on who the prevailing culture ****s on.
Did I miss any, btw?
Interesting. I've always stayed clear of this forum for fear of being shouted off with variations of "not your narrative".
My general interest in human rights, morality, well being for all, and - selfishly - my daughters' well being make me interested in feminism, but I've found many feminists hostile to any interest from men.
My general interest in human rights, morality, well being for all, and - selfishly - my daughters' well being make me interested in feminism, but I've found many feminists hostile to any interest from men.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
I can't open marginalizedgroups.exe at the moment, but I think you've covered most of 'em.
Out of curiosity, when you mentioned "oppressive structures and ideologies" affecting the most marginalized, presumably you're talking about Patriarchy. Do you feel the TERF movement is more of a by-product of Patriarchy, rather than Feminism?
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
I did it to preempt them on the attack so that one of them would start an argument with me...
You see, the reason many don't like the radical feminists is because so many are way too over the top in everything they do.
On another forums site I had my asexuality listed, much as it is now, and went to view a feminist discussion.
Well apparently having "male" in my profile is some mistake, as I was immediately called a rapist.
A woman abuser, patriarchy supporter, and a few other rather not nice things.
But I'm asexusal! I can't even get it up for a woman, let alone rape one.
These people lowered the overall intelligence bar for feminism.
They should receive the same treatment they dish out and I am happy to do that.
All groups should take responsibility for their ***hole members, this is my way of doing such.
No argument started here, just an explanation of my motives.
As I said earlier, I know a very nice radical feminist. She also told me that some other radical feminists at the meetings she attended were in heterosexual relationships.
Radical feminists are people like everyone else; they have their good and their bad. I think so many people demonize them because they are... well, radical. They are not "soft" enough to appeal to the mainstream, which is why they are generally unpopular.
Cool.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Then they aren't the ones I'm talking about and are safe from my impending wrath
.
I can't open marginalizedgroups.exe at the moment, but I think you've covered most of 'em.
Out of curiosity, when you mentioned "oppressive structures and ideologies" affecting the most marginalized, presumably you're talking about Patriarchy. Do you feel the TERF movement is more of a by-product of Patriarchy, rather than Feminism?
I personally feel the TERFs are a by-product of patriarchy. The stance on what makes a "real" woman or not is too close to the prescribed gender roles and biological absolutism/essentialism that runs rampant in patriarchy structures.
Here's my thoughts:
- feminism covers the various ranges of sex and gender inequality and injustice. Radical feminists see the inequality and injustice in core and nuanced cultural establishments more so than, I guess one could say, mainstream feminists.
- misandry is a different sphere of thought, and one that is androphobic, benevolent, and/or hostile toward maleness. Misandry and feminism are two separate spheres completely, though men and women can and do on occasion find themselves in either or both. But one cannot be "so far feminist that they become misandrist", since it has it's own spectrum of perspective.
- there's just people who are ***holes. Third sphere. And again, people can live in each or any combination of these spheres.
***hole feminists and misandrist feminists suck.
lovemuffin
τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
It's amazing that even in the DIR there can't be a feminism thread that doesn't involve a criticism of feminism within the first 5 replies
It's amazing that even in the DIR there can't be a feminism thread that doesn't involve a criticism of feminism within the first 5 replies
The lurkers love it, though. Makes them happy to see feminists being pushed around a bit.
Good morning, feminist section!
So, this question popped into my head in light of a recent debate: as a feminist, what do you consider to be the main difference between the labels "feminist" and "egalitarian"? Obviously all of us here self-identify as feminists, so we have a reason or reasons to prefer the former label over the latter. I'm interested to hear other feminists' opinions on this.
So, this question popped into my head in light of a recent debate: as a feminist, what do you consider to be the main difference between the labels "feminist" and "egalitarian"? Obviously all of us here self-identify as feminists, so we have a reason or reasons to prefer the former label over the latter. I'm interested to hear other feminists' opinions on this.
Hmm, maybe I'll start doing some research and contemplation for an essay regarding Jung's Anima-Animus states of development and integration and feminism.
Anima development in men is directly connected to how they view women, with the more developed anima being more individual orientated and less prejudiced towards women generally. An undeveloped and unintegrated Animus in women will often encourage meme-ridden broadbrushing among women.
Is this a worthy topic to explore?
Anima development in men is directly connected to how they view women, with the more developed anima being more individual orientated and less prejudiced towards women generally. An undeveloped and unintegrated Animus in women will often encourage meme-ridden broadbrushing among women.
Is this a worthy topic to explore?
For the lurkers who love to hate
...this ones for you straight from the Feminist Echo Chamber...Feminism is a subset of egalitarianism by definition. Being that feminism recognizes where women of all stripes, colors, sizes, ages, classes, appearances, etc. are as a group denied culturally and/or legally the same rights, liberties, and opportunities as men and seeks various avenues to correct the denial.
Feminism as an overall movement to correct this denial recognizes the suffering that is attached to the everyday sexism women around the world experience on various levels. We understand due to how deadly or abusive the consequences are for women who don't toe the line of being a "real woman", and how gender roles hurts everyone as a result.
Egalitarians who self-describe see themselves as evolved beyond feminists, and believe feminism doesn't do enough or is "just as bad as MRA's", though I've found their rhetoric to be remarkably similar to MRA's rhetoric and spend the majority of their time on how feminism sucks.
In other words, I've found self-described egalitarians to follow the same path and speak the same words as the likes of Paul Elam and Karen Straughn, who both are virulently anti-feminism. Hence, they spend little time online discussing equality measures for men and women and spend the majority of their time lurking here and one other pages or groups, falsely believing feminists don't allow criticism of feminism because we have a DIR, using flawed premises and bad logic to criticize feminism at times in Gish Gallop style, linking to youtube videos as sources for their research rather than sourcing scholars in the field of sociology and anthropology, all with the intent to "expose feminism" with a cavalier attitude.
I've found self described egalitarians most often find their way into feminist spaces and cause the most trouble on and off line with harassment, double standards, and personally for me several episodes of rape and death threats. All say the same thing...that feminism deserves to be criticized, that the criticism should be at their convenience and their decision, and that anything regarding harassment in feminist spaces is proof enough for them that we just want to silence people who don't agree.
I've been through this **** for close to 40 years being raised in a feminist household, traveling around the U.S., vocalizing my feminist perspective, and going through being tear gassed and shot at with rubber bullets when I think people are being denied human rights. It would be nice if my fellow egalitarians would stand next to me if they care so much about equality for all people, but I have yet to find one willing to walk in public against the odds.
They'd rather stay behind a computer and type out how feminism is bull****, in my experience.
Haters gonna hate.