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I live in a smart city, can I be concerned yet?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Xavier Graham SA, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    No. Because if that was actually the case , people wouldnt go as extensively as they do now with massive integrated surveillance and control systems.

    It would stay circa 60s and 70s where surveillance didn't exceed the norms of that era where most of it was largely self contained and non integrated in the hands of individual people protecting their own particular interests.
     
  2. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    While public surveillance certainly goes overboard at times, I find comparisons of such in developed, relatively free countries to something like 1984 or thoroughly dictatorial countries to more often than not be hyperbolic.

    I can say this (without going into too much detail): many people who have lived in an authoritarian, heavily corrupt third-world country know that abuse, tyranny, and corruption can easily take hold of a country without any sort of technologically advanced public surveillance. All you need is poor education and corrupt state institutions.
     
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  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    God is watching. Well big government.
    Don't do anything God, er I mean the government wouldn't want you to do.
    Though one might want to be concerned about which God, umm.. government is watching.
     
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  4. Bodie

    Bodie Member

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    In the U.S. at least the NSA logs the Ip Addresses of anyone who logs into or visits the TOR website or searches for privacy services, the reasoning is is that why would anyone want to be anonymous if they weren't doing anything wrong, your perceived rights do not matter.
     
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  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    In every time and place on Earth, humans beings have wanted to be in control of their circumstances ... as much as possible. Not all of us all the time, but enough of us at any given time. And that is what is feeding this increase in surveillance. But all this increased surveillance fuels different results at the same time in that it does provide us with a lot more security even though it also provides those who wish to exploit or abuse us for their own gain with specific information that would help enable their agenda. And then between those two more opposing results, there is a whole lot of "meh". For most of us, most of the time, all that surveillance will result in, "meh". It will have no appreciable impact. And for those that it will impact at some point in time, the question becomes; will that impact be more positive, or more negative?
     
    #45 PureX, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  6. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    For example, the UK managed to "emulate" China's surveillance and control methodology years before China did, in a staggering feat of reverse causality, where evil Communists influenced entire nations backwards into time!
     
  7. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    All signed into law by the Bush government, and then later expanded under Trump.
     
  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    The UK started in 2001 after 9/11.

    China in 1949.
     
  9. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    The Security Service has existed since 1909, and its powers were not regulated until the 1980s (and only brought in compliance with basic human rights in the 1990s).
     
  10. Xavier Graham SA

    Xavier Graham SA God is Love, is love, is love. OM, AV KAH AHH!

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    The state has a monopoly on certain markets as it stands. It doesn’t mean that markets cannot exist without a state. Not sure why your connecting ancap philosophy to this topic.
     
  11. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    I'm not the one blaming "socialism" and "China" for what's a logical consequence of the centuries-long marriage of capitalism and authoritarianism.
     
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  12. Xavier Graham SA

    Xavier Graham SA God is Love, is love, is love. OM, AV KAH AHH!

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    Imo, this line of thinking is dangerous. Because enough people think it, so it allows states to set up surveillance states. Doesn’t every state have a track record of being corrupt and invasive? I think so. So why trust them, they have proven that they are untrustworthy and corrupt.
     
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  13. Xavier Graham SA

    Xavier Graham SA God is Love, is love, is love. OM, AV KAH AHH!

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    I think you and I disagree on whether or not capitalism can exist without being corrupted. Anarcho-capitalism is capitalism minus the authoritarianism.
    And the resulting smart city technology and the such, they are funded through socialist means, right? Through collective rule and ordinance, and government funded. Idk I just don’t think one can blame capitalism itself for a surveillance state, that’s just me.
     
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    As i said britain was the most surveiled country in the world, no one bothers except criminals. Why not trust them to help reduce crime?

    However American have the attitude they can do what they like without consequence due to some piece of paper signed a couple of hundred years ago.

    If you don't like it then wear a mask
     
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  15. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I take you were referring to mass surveillance of populations on a large integrated and networked scale.
     
  16. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Surveillance to that extent means you essentially live in a visual prison that's designed to control people. Not protect them.
     
  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    No it doesn't, dont forgot i have lived in the most surveiled country in the world, it was no impediment to anything i did, or to anyone else i knew there

    However if you are paranoid about what yoy do then i can imagine it would seem frightening.
     
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  18. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    I never said I trust them. I just said I don't care if they look at me or listen to me.

    To me, it similar to having a beat cop walking the street watching and listening. At least with surveillance, what is done or said doesn't rely on the perspective on one individual, who could potentially be every bit as untrustworthy and corrupt.
     
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  19. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    No, we disagree on whether capitalism can be "corrupted" in the first place. ;)

    The government is part and parcel of our capitalist society. You might as well blame coal for polluting the planet, or cars for making streets dangerous to kids. Most surveillance technology has come supplied by capitalists at the behest of capitalists - any shop that requires surveillance is directly responsible for the encroachment of it.

    Because our capitalist masters say so.
     
  20. Bodie

    Bodie Member

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    You forgot Obama who continued the enforcement of domestic surveillance, wonder why that is? It's irrelevant though, domestic spying goes well beyond the petty red and blue bickering.
     
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