I Like Religion Because - I Dislike Religion Because. . . . . . . .

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, I appreciate the sentiment. And, I feel like I understand more where you are coming from on this issue. Keep in mind, I am pointing out potential danger, not actualized danger. Religious beliefs can certainly be a positive force, as long as questioning those beliefs is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Most detintely.

By the wsy. You win!

way not wsy gosh dn it

 

[Demonslayer]

If a religion persuades to do good, then I respect it. If it persuades to do evil, I do not.

But it does both, so do you respect it or not?

I don't respect it because I find non-religious people do the same good things, but many bad things that are cause by religion are unique to religion.

Secular law and non-religious people are against stealing, killing, cheating, lying, etc. Everyone knows these things are 'wrong', with or without a God framework. I'm not religious at all anymore and I still give to charity, stay faithful to my wife, I don't steal or cheat on my taxes, I help people when I can, etc. I can't think of a "good" thing that religion supports that is rejected by the non-religious.

On the other hand, non-religious people do NOT support stoning people who cheat on their wives, unequal rights for people based on sexual preference, falling in love only with people of your same religion, vilifying normal healthy sexual activity before marriage, killing the infidel, or telling children that people outside of their faith go to a place called Hell when they die. These 'bad' things are unique to religion.

Therefore when religion persuades people to do good, I find it unnecessary because the same good is done without it. When religion persuades people to do bad, I find it harmful. Unless someone can name some good things that are unique to religion.

So I guess I'm a believer in the Steven Weinberg quote:

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

 

[Scott C.]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

I assume you're a good person, who intuitively knows right from wrong, and tries to do good. You may do far more good in the world than I do. Whether you believe in God or not, it's the light from God that teaches you right from wrong and motivates you to do good. You can't escape true religion and it's influence. It guides us all whether we see it or not. And, based on your list of things that are good and bad, I conclude that your disbelief in God prevents you from seeing the wrong in some things. One needs a perspective based on God and his purposes to understand the right and wrong of some things in life.

 

[Demonslayer]

Whether you believe in God or not, it's the light from God that teaches you right from wrong and motivates you to do good.

No it isn't. If this were true everyone would be motivated to do the same things. Why are some motivated to blow up marketplaces or fly planes into buildings, while others are motivated to help old ladies across the street and give to charity?

If there was some universal 'light from God' that motivated us all whether we know it or not, we'd see universal motivation and universal morality. We don't see that. Even among those who believe in God, some are motivated to shoot abortion doctors, some are motivated to support legal abortion, some are motivated to protest gay marriage, some are motivated to support gay marriage.

It's very clear there isn't one idea of "good" that God beams into everyone's head.

 

[Scott C.]

No it isn't. If this were true everyone would be motivated to do the same things. Why are some motivated to blow up marketplaces or fly planes into buildings, while others are motivated to help old ladies across the street and give to charity?

If there was some universal 'light from God' that motivated us all whether we know it or not, we'd see universal motivation and universal morality. We don't see that. Even among those who believe in God, some are motivated to shoot abortion doctors, some are motivated to support legal abortion, some are motivated to protest gay marriage, some are motivated to support gay marriage.

It's very clear there isn't one idea of "good" that God beams into everyone's head.

We have free will to accept or ignore our conscience, the light from God. Why some choose evil and others choose good, is hard to say. But free will is at play.

 

[leibowde84]

We have free will to accept or ignore our conscience, the light from God. Why some choose evil and others choose good, is hard to say. But free will is at play.

Can you support your claim that our conscience is the "light from God"? Because, thus far, you have stated it as fact, but you have yet to provide any support for that conclusion.

 

[Demonslayer]

We have free will to accept or ignore our conscience, the light from God. Why some choose evil and others choose good, is hard to say. But free will is at play.

So when someone fights against gay marriage, for example, are they obeying the light from God or ignoring it?

 

[Demonslayer]

Muslims believe any alcohol intake is a sin against God, thus drinking would be ignoring the Light from God.

Catholics use wine as part of their ceremony, thus drinking wine would be accepting the Light from God.

Houston, we have a problem.

 

[Scott C.]

Can you support your claim that our conscience is the "light from God"? Because, thus far, you have stated it as fact, but you have yet to provide any support for that conclusion.

I can only provide scriptural proof from my scriptures. I can't imagine how I could possibly prove, without the aid of divine revelations, that the influence of God is at work in teaching us right from wrong.

Here's where my theology on the subject comes from, in part:

Book of Mormon, Moroni 7:16

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; ...

Doctrine and Covenants 88

6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;

7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—

13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

 

[leibowde84]

I can only provide scriptural proof from my scriptures. I can't imagine how I could possibly prove, without the aid of divine revelations, that the influence of God is at work in teaching us right from wrong.

Here's where my theology on the subject comes from, in part:

Book of Mormon, Moroni 7:16

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; ...

Doctrine and Covenants 88

6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;

7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—

13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

Not asking you to prove it, just support it. And using scripture is enlisting circular reasoning. Scripture has not been verified as being accurate as of yet.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I dislike organized, dogmatic/doctrinal book-based religions because they restrict the soul and freedom. They do not come naturally/from within the person. I think true religion is something that naturally arises from within, from our own individual spirit and subconscious. It's dynamic and can't really be described.

 

[Scott C.]

Not asking you to prove it, just support it. And using scripture is enlisting circular reasoning. Scripture has not been verified as being accurate as of yet.

How do you suggest that I support the notion that there's a light or spirit that proceeds from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space without using scripture?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

How do you suggest that I support the notion that there's a light or spirit that proceeds from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space without using scripture?

Conventionally, a person making a claim supports that claim with reference to relevant and supporting facts.

 

[arthra]

Well for me religion has contributed to my life on many levels... in social terms my wife and are Baha'is and have built our family around Baha'i values... I chose a profession to help others rather than exploiting others and my Faith guided many of my decisions. In raising our children we exposed them to many people and cultures to enrich them and help them be liberal and tolerant... our Faith helped us accomplish this.

 

[Aquitaine]

.

Talking about religion in general, not any religion in particular.



So, what are your deepest, most heartfelt feelings about religion?............................................................................................Just kidding, only looking for your thoughts, sober or otherwise.


.

Honestly, my opinion of religion tends to be a negative one, I just see it too easily being used as a tool for ignorance, hatred, superstition and bigotry.
On the plus side however, religion (or rather spirituality) can bring so much happiness and fulfilment to people's lives, that I would never want it to be taken away from them.

 

[Scott C.]

Conventionally, a person making a claim supports that claim with reference to relevant and supporting facts.

Do you not expect people to express religious views on a religious forum?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you not expect people to express religious views on a religious forum?

Quite the contrary, of course. But I don't give religious views a free pass when they make factual claims. Do you think it is reasonable to just accept whatever someone says as being true, just because it is a religious view?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm rather quite neutral towards it. It's not so much the religion I like or dislike (I have to get more into specifics for that discussion), but rather the person who is doing the religious part. Just like anyone else acting out any other role, the religious person can be a kind and generous saint or cruel and sadistic devil.

 

[psychoslice]

You have your own religion though.

Its not really a religion, I just called it that because what else could I call it that others would have an idea of what I mean, so yea don't get caught up in the label.

 

[Scott C.]

Quite the contrary, of course. But I don't give religious views a free pass when they make factual claims. Do you think it is reasonable to just accept whatever someone says as being true, just because it is a religious view?

What I declare as fact is of course my opinion. I can explain why I believe it and how I came to my conclusions. But it's not possible for me to empirically prove that matters of faith are indeed fact. This should come as no surprise. Can I prove that there is a God, or more specifically, that Jehovah of the Bible is God? Of course not. Nevertheless, on this site and in other places, I will continue to refer to God as a fact. It gets really old to be asked to prove that God is real. I would think atheists would tire of asking for proof. If I'm asked to explain why I believe in God and why I'm so personally convinced, I'll be happy to do so. In fact, I enjoy it. But if you require that believers prove that everything that they believe is true, the believers might as well drop off the website and the atheists can have fun talking to each other alone.