I Like Religion Because - I Dislike Religion Because. . . . . . . .

[BSM1]

does your eye offend you?

Good question. Looking at it that way I may have to have my wife's middle finger surgically removed.

 

[Thief]

Who said anything about "saving" anyone? I don't even know what you mean by that word.

Instead, I just think that the choice between blind, superstitious belief informed by a vague fear of death (which I don't really have in the first place) and a rational approach to existential questions is actually rather simple and quick.

you said something about rescuing people from their superstitions...

and who are you to label another person's belief as superstition?
and then recue them away from their superstitions

 

[LuisDantas]

you said something about rescuing people from their superstitions...

By George, that is not "saving" anyone. It is just having basic human decency.

and who are you to label another person's belief as superstition?

I happen to be Luis Dantas, but I could be anyone really. There is no particular requisite to be met.

and then recue them away from their superstitions

Someone who often has to face the choice between doing so or failing to.

Again, that is in no way remarkable. Unfortunately.

 

[Demonslayer]

There's nothing wrong with the former. The latter is very very sad. I dont know if some realize it, though.

I don't know if there is nothing wrong with someone so ingrained in religious ideas that they can't seek non-religious meaning in life. Don't you know a lot of sad/angry/confused religious people with no direction? I do.

Some people are comfortable with religion defining their lives, and for those folks that's fine. Some have religion so strongly thrust on them at such and early age that they don't know they have a choice. They are uncomfortable with their faith but it's so ingrained they can't seek a truth that fits them better. I think those cases are sad.

 

[Thief]

By George, that is not "saving" anyone. It is just having basic human decency.




I happen to be Luis Dantas, but I could be anyone really. There is no particular requisite to be met.




Someone who often has to face the choice between doing so or failing to.

Again, that is in no way remarkable. Unfortunately.

I think you should withdraw.....and consider why you are here in a religious forum

 

[leibowde84]

only if they are actually helping....

That what I said ... "helping" people to question their own beliefs. No need to repeat what I just said.

 

[leibowde84]

I have considered.....and said so....

and no....I see no quality in you that you can save anyone.

Well, at least he isn't vague with his comments.

 

[leibowde84]

I think you should withdraw.....and consider why you are here in a religious forum

I assume it is to debate religious beliefs/dogma/ideas. And, he does a good job of being direct rather than vague . It's pretty absurd to think that a religious debate forum would be confined to religious people. Actually, that would be a travesty, imho. Very boring.

 

[leibowde84]

you said something about rescuing people from their superstitions...

and who are you to label another person's belief as superstition?
and then recue them away from their superstitions

I think it's fair to demand that the religious defend their beliefs as not being mere superstitions. If they can't, that is a clear indication that they should question said beliefs and get to the bottom of what made them start believing in the first place and whether that reasoning is sound. That is ALWAYS beneficial for EVERYONE.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't know if there is nothing wrong with someone so ingrained in religious ideas that they can't seek non-religious meaning in life. Don't you know a lot of sad/angry/confused religious people with no direction? I do.

Some people are comfortable with religion defining their lives, and for those folks that's fine. Some have religion so strongly thrust on them at such and early age that they don't know they have a choice. They are uncomfortable with their faith but it's so ingrained they can't seek a truth that fits them better. I think those cases are sad.

People who are not forced to believe and rather Want to believe, I see nothing wrong with that. If their religion is all they see and it helps them find meaning, who am I to say they are wrong or they have an unhealthy relationship with their religion. Not everyone falls in the category of religious abuse. I mean there was one person here that said he/she was completely happy in their faith that there were no flaws. Which surprise me because I love myself some chocolate. Its one lf my favorite flavoes but it does leave an after taste.

Who can claim perfection? As long as no one is hurt. Did you read my example/post of my therapist and the man who hears voices?

He may be dellusioned and he lives with it. He is no longer in need of medical attention. Same as the religious, if we want to compare them to those delluted. There is nothing wrong with thejr dellusion as long as its helping them.

I cant see why it is so wrong that religion helps people.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think you should withdraw.....and consider why you are here in a religious forum

Withdraw from what?

 

[leibowde84]

People who are not forced to believe and rather Want to believe, I see nothing wrong with that. If their religion is all they see and it helps them find meaning, who am I to say they are wrong or they have an unhealthy relationship with their religion. Not everyone falls in the category of religious abuse. I mean there was one person here that said he/she was completely happy in their faith that there were no flaws. Which surprise me because I love myself some chocolate. Its one lf my favorite flavoes but it does leave an after taste.

Who can claim perfection? As long as no one is hurt. Did you read my example/post of my therapist and the man who hears voices?

He may be dellusioned and he lives with it. He is no longer in need of medical attention. Same as the religious, if we want to compare them to those delluted. There is nothing wrong with thejr dellusion as long as its helping them.

I cant see why it is so wrong that religion helps people.

What about kids though? Should they be brought up to believe things that aren't accurate simply because their parents have held true to their faith?

 

[leibowde84]

Withdraw from what?

Good question. Not sure what he meant by that. I like how he threw the tired ... "why is a non-religious person on a religious debate forum" ... at you, though. I've found that when theists on RF get pushed into a corner, they lash out using either this or the equally tired personal assaults on your personal beliefs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What about kids though? Should they be brought up to believe things that aren't accurate simply because their parents have held true to their faith?

If their parents feel that is reality, logically why would they not?

If the parents feel stealing is wrong, then why is it wrong to "teach" not force them to believe that it is a d the consequences of it. Later on in life, that child might do otherwise. They can change their view and steal all they want. Howeverx according to the parents (not me) if that is their morals and it isnt being forced on the child, I see nothing wrong with that.

For me personally, it would be nice to grow up ina healthy, religious environment. However, I love learn about others truth. So defining mine from childhood would not help Me.

Not All kids feel the same way when they are older. Thats why I see nothing wrong with it in and of itself.

 

[leibowde84]

If their parents feel that is reality, logically why would they not?

If the parents feel stealing is wrong, then why is it wrong to "teach" not force them to believe that it is a d the consequences of it. Later on in life, that child might do otherwise. They can change their view and steal all they want. Howeverx according to the parents (not me) if that is their morals and it isnt being forced on the child, I see nothing wrong with that.

For me personally, it would be nice to grow up ina healthy, religious environment. However, I love learn about others truth. So defining mine from childhood would not help Me.

Not All kids feel the same way when they are older. Thats why I see nothing wrong with it in and of itself.

I think human progression in understanding is paramount to any religious belief. When we stifle progress by adhering stubbornly to religious beliefs, ignoring any evidence that contradicts them, we aren't only harming ourselves, but our future as a species. Religious beliefs are fine, but when stubbornness denies someone's ability to learn and discover, that is dangerous and unacceptable.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I dislike religion because it portrays lies as truth to children too young to know the difference.

I think Dawkins referred to the religious brainwashing of the young as a form of child abuse, and maybe he has a point.

 

[Demonslayer]

People who are not forced to believe and rather Want to believe, I see nothing wrong with that

No I suppose not. I just wonder how many people think they 'want' when in reality they have no choice because the belief was drilled in at such a young age they couldn't shake it.

Not everyone falls in the category of religious abuse. I mean there was one person here that said he/she was completely happy in their faith that there were no flaws.

I know that, sure. I just think many people who report being completely comfortable and happy in their religion are negatively affected in ways they don't even realize. Not all religious people, I'm in agreement with you on that.

Which surprise me because I love myself some chocolate. Its one lf my favorite flavoes but it does leave an after taste.

LOL, especially the dark chocolate and that's the stuff that's good for you.

Who can claim perfection? As long as no one is hurt. Did you read my example/post of my therapist and the man who hears voices?

He may be dellusioned and he lives with it. He is no longer in need of medical attention. Same as the religious, if we want to compare them to those delluted. There is nothing wrong with thejr dellusion as long as its helping them.

I didn't read it, is it in this thread? What post #?

I cant see why it is so wrong that religion helps people.

It's not, I just don't think it helps people as often as it harms, and I think people gloss over the harm and overly emphasize the help.

I think you might have commented on this story before when I told it once, but my grandmother was very religious. She was very comfortable with her religion, and in most aspects of her life it 'helped' her. When her husband died she said "he's with Jesus and I'll see him again." As she contemplated her own death, she looked forward to everlasting life in heaven. She was kind to people, she gave to charity. She felt she had a purpose in the world as one of God's children.

And then when I fell in love with a Jewish woman, she refused to come to the wedding and stopped communicating with me.

If you ask her, she would have told you religion helped her greatly in life. Gave her a purpose and moral guidance.

Did it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think human progression in understanding is paramount to any religious belief. When we stifle progress by adhering stubbornly to religious beliefs, ignoring any evidence that contradicts them, we aren't only harming ourselves, but our future as a species. Religious beliefs are fine, but when stubbornness denies someone's ability to learn and discover, that is dangerous and unacceptable.

Do you think religious beliefs themselves prevents one from learning or he use and indoctrination of those beliefs whatever it is prevents learning?

 

[Demonslayer]

If their parents feel that is reality, logically why would they not?

If the parents feel stealing is wrong, then why is it wrong to "teach" not force them to believe that it is a d the consequences of it

Replace "stealing" with "being homosexual" or "marrying outside the religion" and you'll have your answer.

 

[leibowde84]

Do you think religious beliefs themselves prevents one from learning or he use and indoctrination of those beliefs whatever it is prevents learning?

I think this has been proven to be the case in certain circumstances. Of course, there are no absolutes, so there are always exceptions. But, there is an apparent danger.