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I just saw this ridiculous commercial for the 2nd time:

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The one in the Bible....no 'fantastic' interpretation needed, just interpretation using reason.
Interpretation using reason? Excellent idea ─ that rules out magical explanations for a start. Then it must be a myth because (a) there never was a time when the whole earth was under water (b) there was no means for getting one breeding pair of all the earth's animals to Turkey and then home again after (c) the technology to build a wooden boat capable of holding those animals and their food for a year without resupply didn't exist until the 20th century if even then (d) it was a myth in Mesopotamia before it was a myth in Canaan ie it's not a Hebrew tale, it's a Sumerian one and dates back to the 3rd millennium BCE ie before Yahweh had been invented (e) if the flood had happened every species of land animal would show a genetic bottleneck and all the bottlenecks would date to the same date, but nothing even remotely resembling that is found (f) if the flood had happened there'd be a single unmistakable geological flood layer all over all continents and the ocean floor, but nothing even remotely resembling that is found either (g) if as the script requires the top of Mt Everest was under water then proponents of the tale need to account for an extra 1.113 bn cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth, and of course they can't (h) there is no set of coherent hypotheses that could make the ark possible and (as I know well) defenses of the ark story always lead to nonsense, selected misreadings, distortion, evasion, attempts to explain away, purported dismissal of inconvenient evidence and so on and (i) anyway by and large I know a myth when I hear one.
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
No one ever discusses the unimaginably horrific storms that would have occurred when all that rain and well water got dumped into the oceans and seas*. Now picture a vessel with no means of propulsion or steering in the midst of it.

* 337 inches/hour.

On the other hand, it was pictures like this ...
bf66c6f8-01e0-4751-ae6d-edd247db2e1c_1.0e99f17f581d8bd50fe5a1ea27092f23.jpeg


...shown in Sunday School that made me, at age nine, realize that god was no more real than my comic book characters.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
...if as the script requires the top of Mt Everest was under water then proponents of the tale need to account for an extra 1.113 bn cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm curious as to how you got to 1.113 bn cm. I came up with 98,000,000 cm.

Using difference between volume of two spheres...
Height of Everest ~ 1/2 mile
Radius at equator sea level 3959 259,953,000,000
Radius at top of Everest 3959.5 260,021,000,000
Difference ~ 98,000,000 cm
Surface area of the Earth is 197 million square miles. Everest is about five miles high, close to 5.5, not half a mile high.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Ricky Gervais's take on Noah:

Warning, a little bit of naughty language!

 

sealchan

Well-Known Member

Does anyone seriously believe the Noah's Ark Myth? And if so can you be clear about which version you believe in? There are multiple interpretations of the myth in the Bible, so merely saying "The one in the Bible" will not tell anyone anything useful.

I like the version in the movie Noah directed by Darron Aronofsky. The fallen angels came and helped.

I don't believe that literally happened but I would like to see the Bible updated to include that.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member

Does anyone seriously believe the Noah's Ark Myth? And if so can you be clear about which version you believe in? There are multiple interpretations of the myth in the Bible, so merely saying "The one in the Bible" will not tell anyone anything useful.

You know what would really be cool? Build a museum of science oriented toward future projects in space...both those in the works around the world and those that people only dream of. And a big part of that would be an exhibit of science fiction ideas of what those long term plans might be including self-sustaining biospheres such as in Silent Running.

The relevance here is that this would eclipse Ken Ham's museum and help us all to see where our hearts and minds are at...and not get saddened by the willful ignorance.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Boy, other than small variations within different translations I always thought the story goes as follows.

Genesis 6:9-22
Noah and the Great Flood


9 This is the history of Noah’s family. He was a good man all his life, and he always followed God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11-12 When God looked at the earth, he saw that people had ruined it. Violence was everywhere, and it had ruined their life on earth.

13 So God said to Noah, “Everyone has filled the earth with anger and violence. So I will destroy all living things. I will remove them from the earth. 14 Use cypress wood and build a boat for yourself. Make rooms in the boat and cover it with tar inside and out.

15 “This is the size I want you to make the boat: 300 cubits[c] long, 50 cubits[d] wide, and 30 cubits[e] high. 16 Make a window for the boat about 1 cubit[f] below the roof.[g] Put a door in the side of the boat. Make three floors in the boat: a top deck, a middle deck, and a lower deck.

17 “Understand what I am telling you. I will bring a great flood of water on the earth. I will destroy all living things that live under heaven. Everything on the earth will die. 18 I will make a special agreement with you. You, your wife, your sons, and their wives will all go into the boat. 19 Also, you will take two of every living thing on the earth with you into the boat. Take a male and female of every kind of animal so that they might survive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, animal, and creeping thing will come to you so that you might keep them alive. 21 Also bring every kind of food into the boat, for you and for the animals.”

22 Noah did everything God commanded him.

Genesis 7:1-24
The Flood Begins


7 Then the Lord said to Noah, “I have seen that you are a good man, even among the evil people of this time. So gather your family, and all of you go into the boat. 2 Get seven pairs (seven males and seven females) of every kind of clean animal. And get one pair (one male and one female) of every other animal on the earth. Lead all these animals into the boat with you. 3 Get seven pairs (seven males and seven females) of all the birds. This will allow all these animals to continue living on the earth after the other animals are destroyed. 4 Seven days from now, I will send much rain on the earth. It will rain for 40 days and 40 nights, and I will wipe everything off the face of the earth. I will destroy everything I made.” 5 Noah did everything the Lord told him to do.

6 Noah was 600 years old at the time the rains came. 7 He and his family went into the boat to be saved from the flood. His wife and his sons and their wives were on the boat with him. 8 All the clean animals, all the other animals on the earth, the birds, and everything that crawls on the earth 9 went into the boat with Noah. These animals went into the boat in groups of two, male and female, just as God commanded. 10 Seven days later the flood started. The rain began to fall on the earth.

11-13 On the 17th day of the second month, when Noah was 600 years old, the springs under the earth broke through the ground, and water flowed out everywhere. The sky also opened like windows and rain poured down. The rain fell on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights. That same day Noah went into the boat with his wife, his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and their wives. 14 They and every kind of animal on the earth were in the boat. Every kind of cattle, every kind of animal that crawls on the earth, and every kind of bird were in the boat. 15 All these animals went into the boat with Noah. They came in groups of two from every kind of animal that had the breath of life. 16 All these animals went into the boat in groups of two, just as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord closed the door behind Noah.

17 Water flooded the earth for 40 days. The water began rising and lifted the boat off the ground. 18 The water continued to rise, and the boat floated on the water high above the earth. 19 The water rose so much that even the highest mountains were covered by the water. 20 The water continued to rise above the mountains. The water was more than 20 feet[a] above the highest mountain.

21-22 Every living thing on earth died—every man and woman, every bird, and every kind of animal. All the many kinds of animals and all the things that crawl on the ground died. Every living, breathing thing on dry land died. 23 In this way God wiped the earth clean—he destroyed every living thing on the earth—every human, every animal, everything that crawls, and every bird. All that was left was Noah and his family and the animals that were with him in the boat. 24 The water continued to cover the earth for 150 days.

Genesis 8:1-22
The Flood Ends


8 But God did not forget about Noah. God remembered him and all the animals that were with him in the boat. God made a wind blow over the earth, and all the water began to disappear.

2 Rain stopped falling from the sky, and water stopped flowing from under the earth. 3-4 The water that covered the earth began to go down. After 150 days the water was low enough that the boat touched land again. The boat stopped on one of the mountains of Ararat. This was the 17th day of the seventh month. 5 The water continued to go down, and by the first day of the tenth month, the tops of the mountains were above the water.

6 Forty days later Noah opened the window he had made in the boat. 7 Then he sent out a raven. The raven flew from place to place until the ground was dry and the water was gone. 8 Noah also sent out a dove. He wanted it to find dry ground. He wanted to know if water still covered the earth.

9 The dove could not find a place to rest because water still covered the earth, so the dove came back to the boat. Noah reached out his hand and caught the dove and brought it back into the boat.

10 After seven days Noah again sent out the dove. 11 And that afternoon the dove came back to Noah. The dove had a fresh olive leaf in its mouth. This was a sign to show Noah that there was dry ground on the earth. 12 Seven days later Noah sent the dove out again. But this time the dove didn’t come back.

13 After that Noah opened the door[a] of the boat. He looked and saw that the ground was dry. This was the first day of the first month of the year. He was 601 years old. 14 By the 27th day of the second month, the ground was completely dry.

15 Then God said to Noah, 16 “Leave the boat. You, your wife, your sons, and your sons’ wives should go out now. 17 Bring every living animal out of the boat with you—all the birds, animals, and everything that crawls on the earth. These animals will make many more animals, and they will fill the earth again.”

18 So Noah went out with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives. 19 All the animals, everything that crawls, and every bird left the boat. All the animals came out of the boat in family groups.

20 Then Noah built an altar to honor the Lord. Noah took some of all the clean birds and some of all the clean animals and burned them on the altar as a gift to God.

21 The Lord smelled these sacrifices, and it pleased him. The Lord said to himself, “I will never again curse the earth as a way to punish people. People are evil from the time they are young, but I will never again destroy every living thing on the earth as I did this time. 22 As long as the earth continues, there will always be a time for planting and a time for harvest. There will always be cold and hot, summer and winter, day and night on earth.”
What other versions have you heard of?

Or are you talking about interpretations of THIS story? If so, the only one I've heard is a literal interpretation, Aside from this the story is considered a myth. One or the other.

.

How about the Gilgamesh one...or the story of Manu and the fish flood story...there are so many to choose from?

Or this one...

Ice Age Floods National Geologic Trail (U.S. National Park Service)
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
You know what would really be cool? Build a museum of science oriented toward future projects in space...both those in the works around the world and those that people only dream of. And a big part of that would be an exhibit of science fiction ideas of what those long term plans might be including self-sustaining biospheres such as in Silent Running.

The relevance here is that this would eclipse Ken Ham's museum and help us all to see where our hearts and minds are at...and not get saddened by the willful ignorance.

...and I forgot to add that I see the Noah story as a story of scientific engineering in response to knowledge of a future environmental crisis. Climate change could be a big part of it as well. The idea of facing a choice of moving off the planet or staying behind to face either a self-made planetary extinction or an asteriod predicted to strike the earth in 120 years (just made that up people)...that is what I see as the value of Noah's story for us today.

Noah's virtue is having the strength to prepare for God's onslaught by years and years of hard work and focus and faith that the effort will be worth it in the end. This is why humanity survives and thrives and why it has been "chosen" by God...the old Noah story is out of date and getting sillier by the scientific second.

Hmmm...I just need few wealth donors and someone who knows how to do stuff. Haha!
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I see that this museum includes dinosaurs...what the @#$@%! I guess Ken Ham sees the wisdom of updating the Bible...and of changing your preaching to reach your audience (of children). Boys love dinosaurs and if your fun museum has dinosaurs then that sells tickets.

Also one can't have one's mythic ancient history not include dinosaurs for fear of alienating the little boy crowd.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?

Does anyone seriously believe the Noah's Ark Myth? And if so can you be clear about which version you believe in? There are multiple interpretations of the myth in the Bible, so merely saying "The one in the Bible" will not tell anyone anything useful.

But you got to admit that the Kentucky Ark is very informative. I never knew there were dinosaurs in Noah's time.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Interpretation using reason? Excellent idea ─ that rules out magical explanations for a start. Then it must be a myth because (a) there never was a time when the whole earth was under water (b) there was no means for getting one breeding pair of all the earth's animals to Turkey and then home again after (c) the technology to build a wooden boat capable of holding those animals and their food for a year without resupply didn't exist until the 20th century if even then (d) it was a myth in Mesopotamia before it was a myth in Canaan ie it's not a Hebrew tale, it's a Sumerian one and dates back to the 3rd millennium BCE ie before Yahweh had been invented (e) if the flood had happened every species of land animal would show a genetic bottleneck and all the bottlenecks would date to the same date, but nothing even remotely resembling that is found (f) if the flood had happened there'd be a single unmistakable geological flood layer all over all continents and the ocean floor, but nothing even remotely resembling that is found either (g) if as the script requires the top of Mt Everest was under water then proponents of the tale need to account for an extra 1.113 bn cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth, and of course they can't (h) there is no set of coherent hypotheses that could make the ark possible and (as I know well) defenses of the ark story always lead to nonsense, selected misreadings, distortion, evasion, attempts to explain away, purported dismissal of inconvenient evidence and so on and (i) anyway by and large I know a myth when I hear one.

Surface area of the Earth is 197 million square miles. Everest is about five miles high, close to 5.5, not half a mile high.

Sometime ago I calculated the following for the flood waters.


difference in earth and mt everest with inner earth reserve.png




.
 
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