I just saw this ridiculous commercial for the 2nd time:

[Subduction Zone]

So it seems to me that, from what you are saying, everyone that believes in a creator is stupid, and those that don't are rational thinkers...???
So all those brilliant scientist that believes, from what they observe, that life must have been created, are not using their head....???

So the scientist that were all brainwashed from birth, but came to believe in evolution, had a miraculous brain transplant from outer space, and therefore were able to think rationally...???
But the others weren't fortunate enough to get such a transplant, and were stuck with brainwashed minds that would not allow them to think rationally. So they remain in a stupor believing in a stupid creator...???


You know what Bob? I'm going to leave you now, and let you enjoy yourself.
Hey look! You even know how many animals went on board the ark...

Uh. See Yah.

Hardly, he is saying that you are a victim. Not that you are stupid. But since you do seem to know that you are wrong deep down so many times you are strawmanning his argument to make him look bad.

Many intelligent people believe the flood myth. The problem is that they base this belief upon religious indoctrination Since even a middle school student can understand why there was no flood the believers do end up looking as if they lack intelligence as a result. The religion, as are the superstitious, are victims of cognitive dissonance quite often. Your belief in the Ark is no different than the belief of a pitcher in a "lucky pair of socks".

 

[ScottySatan]

I'd just like to add that I've been to the creation museum with open mind and it's not good for religious scholars like us. It does not argue for creationism, it's much more of a preaching to the choir situation. It's preaching the gospel with an occasional jab to the face of Science. And Science is not around to defend itself. No counterarguments from Science present. Really, I'd argue no arguments from the museum folks to begin with.

What a shame, I know creationism can argue better than this. Hell, I can argue better for creationism than this.

 

[ecco]

I think that for the weak in faith the Bible is an all or nothing book.

So clearly there are differences in thinking even among Christians.

Religious belief is not a black and white matter. There are as many shades of grey as there are people.

Some, like me, argue that gods, and the very concept of gods, are nothing more than the creations of man's imaginings. They are at the far left end of the table.

Some, like an acquaintance of mine, believe "God said it, I believe it". They are at the very right end of the table.

Most people are somewhere between those ends. I call them pickers and choosers.

 

[ecco]

I consider myself rational and I believe in God. Is it rational to deny evidence? Is it irrational to deny the existence of what cannot be explained, described or demonstrated? I have to deal with these questions daily. I cannot find it in myself to condemn someone that has come to a conclusion opposite of mine when mine in based on faith alone. It is not even something that I can explain to myself. It exists in me and I accept it.

Young children, especially in this Country, are led to believe that, once a year, a fat man in a red outfit will descend into their homes and leave presents.

Around age 8 or 9 they start hearing opposing views from friends and older siblings. Eventually they ask for confirmation from those they trust the most, the parents. Children accept when their parents tell them the, often, painful truth.


Young children, in most Countries, are led to believe that god exists. They say prayers to Him at meals and before going to bed. They are taken to churches.

Rarely, if ever, do they start hearing opposing views from friends and older siblings. If they do ask for confirmation from those they trust the most, the parents, they are usually told that yes, God does exist. Children accept what their parents tell them.

 

[ecco]

Tell me. Do you think a tight rope walker has faith? Why, or why not?

You know that there two separate and different definitions of the word "faith".

What you are doing here is trying to conflate the two meanings. That's a tactic that many theists often try to use. It's a dishonest tactic.

faith
/fāTH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More

2.strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

​

The tight rope walker has faith - confidence- in his abilities and in the capabilities of his riggers. You have #2.

 

[ecco]

WORTH REPEATING

Most were brainwashed from birth. Proof?

The vast majority of people believe the same religion as their parents, or other relatives, or at least, the major religion of their culture.

IF you had been born in India? Odds are you'd be Hindu.

IF you had been born in Korea or Japan? Odds are you'd be Buddhist or some form of ancestor worship.

IF you had been born in Saudi Arabia? You'd either be Muslim, or dead.

Ain't it amazing that the One True Religion™ JUST happens to match where you were born?

 

[ecco]

So it seems to me that, from what you are saying, everyone that believes in a creator is stupid, and those that don't are rational thinkers...???

He never used the term "stupid". But you know that, don't you.

So all those brilliant scientist that believes, from what they observe, that life must have been created, are not using their head....???

Several of those brilliant scientists have stated that regardless of what they find scientifically, they will still believe in the Biblical version. This cognitive dissonance is the result of intense childhood indoctrination.

So the scientist that were all brainwashed from birth, but came to believe in evolution, had a miraculous brain transplant from outer space, and therefore were able to think rationally...???

No. Some people are not indoctrinated as much as others. Some are able to overcome even severe indoctrination.

Case in point:

Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner (born January 14, 1944 in Long Beach, California) is a former evangelist preacher and actor. He first gained public attention during the late 1940s when his parents arranged for him at age four to be ordained as a preacher, due to his extraordinary speaking ability. He was the youngest known in that position. As a young man, he preached on the revival circuit and brought celebrity to the revival movement.[1]

He became a celebrity again during the 1970s when he starred in Marjoe (1972), a behind-the-scenes documentary about the lucrative business of Pentecostal preaching. This won the 1972 Academy Award for Best Documentary Film. This documentary now is noted as one of the most vehement criticisms of Pentecostal preaching​

But the others weren't fortunate enough to get such a transplant, and were stuck with brainwashed minds that would not allow them to think rationally. So they remain in a stupor believing in a stupid creator...???

Believing in something that has been drummed into your head since childhood has nothing to do with being in a stupor.

Based on the Biblical accounts, I wouldn't refer to your creator as stupid. I would use terms like petty, vindictive, egotistical, incompetent, deceitful and cruel.

You know what Bob? I'm going to leave you now, and let you enjoy yourself.
Uh. See Yah.

Since you apparently put Bob the Unbeliever on ignore, I thought I'd address your comments.

Feel free to ignore me too. That's always an option open to people who cannot rationally defend their positions.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

So it seems to me that, from what you are saying, everyone that believes in a creator is stupid, and those that don't are rational thinkers...???.

Yep. Except for the "stupid" bit-- very intelligent people can be sufficiently brainwashed, to set aside their brilliance, and wallow in the irrational idea of an unproven concept: creator.

That entire claim is without reason, why?

Because it 100% relies on FAITH.

And FAITH is the SURRENDER OF REASON. Always has been, always will be. YOU CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING BY FAITH.

So all those brilliant scientist that believes, from what they observe, that life must have been created, are not using their head....???.

That would be you, writing something that simply isn't true. ALL belief in a creator requires FAITH, FIRST. See above.

Once you have damaged your mind with FAITH? Everything you see becomes "created" -- and that is irrational.

So the scientist that were all brainwashed from birth, but came to believe in evolution, had a miraculous brain transplant from outer space, and therefore were able to think rationally...???.

Nope. They simply learned to overcome the bullsh8t that is FAITH.

It's not that difficult to do, actually. Ask 90% of atheists you may run in to-- most were brainwashed from birth-- but they got better. You can too.

But the others weren't fortunate enough to get such a transplant, and were stuck with brainwashed minds that would not allow them to think rationally. So they remain in a stupor believing in a stupid creator...???

.

Strawman. A kind of ridiculous one, seeing as how you cannot overcome your childhood brainwashing to think of a more clever strawman.

You know what Bob? I'm going to leave you now, and let you enjoy yourself.
Hey look! You even know how many animals went on board the ark...

How many animals? That would be ... none. Seeing as the Ark never existed in the first place...

But do run away, and be happy with demolishing your silly strawman.

Building strawman "arguments" and then gleefully knocking them over appears to be your #1 strategy.