I just saw this ridiculous commercial for the 2nd time:

[nPeace]

The brainwashing takes place many years prior. And age, and diminishing mental capacity?

Does the rest.

So you mean that all who are taught about creation and/or God, are brainwashed, and no matter the age they remain brainwashed?
So someone who was never taught about creation and/or God, becomes brainwashed as long as they believe in creation - even if they are a brilliant scientist at the age of 45?
Are you suggesting that no person 90 years and over can think and reason properly?

Likely what you call "atheist" was not anything of the sort-- but merely a theist who didn't go to church, or some other dodge.

Likely that's what you want to believe, but no, I am talking about atheist and agnostics that were raised, and grew up that way, and then they came to the conclusion that they got here by creation.
How are they brainwashed.

But even it it was? Why do gods NEVER manage to convince someone who is utterly rational, and in control of all their faculties?

People who are rational, and in control of the reasoning faculties, are convinced that God is real - not because he convinces them, but because they used their reasoning abilities and became convinced.
Are you suggesting that no person that believes in God "is utterly rational, and in control of all their faculties"?

Why is it, a person has to suffer some extreme stress, before your god manages to become "convincing"?

I don't find that to be the case. However, perhaps you are one who has had that experience?
Are you suggesting that all persons who believe in God do so only after/because they "suffer some extreme stress"?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So your ugly comment back up the tree, where you were quite certain your god was gonna "beat me up" was NOT your point?

Okay-- you did not use the phrase "beat me up" but that WAS the meaning of your words: You actually believe your god was going to cause me great harm in some way...! Pretty evil, if you ask me.

And no--- I don't fear your myth. I also don't worry if Santa Claus will leave me a coal, at Xmas Time.

Neither am I concerned if the Government Orbital Mind-Control LASERS will beam Republican Propaganda directly into my brain.

And yes: I place ALL these in the same silly category: Fantasy.

I don't think you are in danger of being beaten up by God for not believing. From my perspective, that would be between you and Him. Personally, I don't think he is going to capriciously remove a unique and valuable voice from the discussion. Even if that is how He is described in the Old Testament. Even God has moved on from that time.

I'm not worried about orbital mind-control lasers neither. Where do people come up with these things?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So you mean that all who are taught about creation and/or God, are brainwashed, and no matter the age they remain brainwashed?
So someone who was never taught about creation and/or God, becomes brainwashed as long as they believe in creation - even if they are a brilliant scientist at the age of 45?
Are you suggesting that no person 90 years and over can think and reason properly?


Likely that's what you want to believe, but no, I am talking about atheist and agnostics that were raised, and grew up that way, and then they came to the conclusion that they got here by creation.
How are they brainwashed.


People who are rational, and in control of the reasoning faculties, are convinced that God is real - not because he convinces them, but because they used their reasoning abilities and became convinced.
Are you suggesting that no person that believes in God "is utterly rational, and in control of all their faculties"?


I don't find that to be the case. However, perhaps you are one who has had that experience?
Are you suggesting that all persons who believe in God do so only after/because they "suffer some extreme stress"?

If belief in God is faith-based, reasoning ability is not required to come to a position that God exists. In fact, reasoning ability would lead you away from a position that God exists, since there is no way to prove the existence of God.

 

[nPeace]

So your ugly comment back up the tree, where you were quite certain your god was gonna "beat me up" was NOT your point?

Okay-- you did not use the phrase "beat me up" but that WAS the meaning of your words: You actually believe your god was going to cause me great harm in some way...! Pretty evil, if you ask me.

And no--- I don't fear your myth. I also don't worry if Santa Claus will leave me a coal, at Xmas Time.

Neither am I concerned if the Government Orbital Mind-Control LASERS will beam Republican Propaganda directly into my brain.

And yes: I place ALL these in the same silly category: Fantasy.

Thanks for admitting that you like to put words in people's mouth, and twist them to suit you, and you don't care that that's actually being dishonest, so long as you can try to put someone in a bad light.

The last person that kept pushing that agenda, got put on ignore, so if you keep that up, you can be sure I'll let you join him.
Is that a trend between close anti-Creation buddies around here?

 

[nPeace]

If belief in God is faith-based, reasoning ability is not required to come to a position that God exists. In fact, reasoning ability would lead you away from a position that God exists, since there is no way to prove the existence of God.

Do you and I have the same understand of what faith is?
What's faith to you?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So you mean that all who are taught about creation and/or God, are brainwashed, and no matter the age they remain brainwashed?
So someone who was never taught about creation and/or God, becomes brainwashed as long as they believe in creation - even if they are a brilliant scientist at the age of 45?
Are you suggesting that no person 90 years and over can think and reason properly?


Likely that's what you want to believe, but no, I am talking about atheist and agnostics that were raised, and grew up that way, and then they came to the conclusion that they got here by creation.
How are they brainwashed.


People who are rational, and in control of the reasoning faculties, are convinced that God is real - not because he convinces them, but because they used their reasoning abilities and became convinced.
Are you suggesting that no person that believes in God "is utterly rational, and in control of all their faculties"?


I don't find that to be the case. However, perhaps you are one who has had that experience?
Are you suggesting that all persons who believe in God do so only after/because they "suffer some extreme stress"?

I think his point is that Christians raised in an atmosphere that does not allow or discuss other views--except to write them off as the actions of Satan or evil--have no choice but to believe as they are told. That much of what we are told as Christians growing up is accepted without question. I recall being shot down many times for asking questions for which adults neither had answers nor understood that they should have answers.

I consider myself rational and I believe in God. Is it rational to deny evidence? Is it irrational to deny the existence of what cannot be explained, described or demonstrated? I have to deal with these questions daily. I cannot find it in myself to condemn someone that has come to a conclusion opposite of mine when mine in based on faith alone. It is not even something that I can explain to myself. It exists in me and I accept it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Do you and I have the same understand of what faith is?
What's faith to you?

Probably not, but possibly we do follow the same understanding. I cannot know without your contribution.

Faith is believing in something despite a lack of evidence for that something.

What is your definition?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Do you and I have the same understand of what faith is?
What's faith to you?

Let's just say that I have a gut feeling that God exists. I cannot support that feeling with evidence.

 

[nPeace]

I think his point is that Christians raised in an atmosphere that does not allow or discuss other views--except to write them off as the actions of Satan or evil--have no choice but to believe as they are told. That much of what we are told as Christians growing up is accepted without question. I recall being shot down many times for asking questions for which adults neither had answers nor understood that they should have answers.

I disagree with those who shot you down.
It's unfortunate that that does happen.
However, it's not done by everyone.

I consider myself rational and I believe in God.

I do too.
Why do you believe in God, and think it's rational.

Is it rational to deny evidence?

I don't think so.

Is it irrational to deny the existence of what cannot be explained, described or demonstrated?

It depends on what you are trying to explain.

I have to deal with these questions daily. I cannot find it in myself to condemn someone that has come to a conclusion opposite of mine when mine in based on faith alone. It is not even something that I can explain to myself. It exists in me and I accept it.

I think you need to explain what you understand faith to be.

 

[nPeace]

Let's just say that I have a gut feeling that God exists. I cannot support that feeling with evidence.

That's not faith, as far as I know.
How do I describe that?
Suppose you never ever heard about God, do you think you would have a gut feeling that God exists? Why, or why not?

Tell me. Do you think a tight rope walker has faith? Why, or why not?

@Dan From Smithville
I probably shouldn't have said that's not faith, but rather your faith is not the same as my faith.
I'll explain later.

 

[nPeace]

Probably not, but possibly we do follow the same understanding. I cannot know without your contribution.

Faith is believing in something despite a lack of evidence for that something.

What is your definition?

My definition is found in Hebrews 11:1
Let me know what you understand by it please.

 

[nPeace]

I don't think you are in danger of being beaten up by God for not believing. From my perspective, that would be between you and Him. Personally, I don't think he is going to capriciously remove a unique and valuable voice from the discussion. Even if that is how He is described in the Old Testament. Even God has moved on from that time.

I'm not worried about orbital mind-control lasers neither. Where do people come up with these things?

Do you believe the God of the NT will torment people in Hell?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's not faith, as far as I know.
How do I describe that?
Suppose you never ever heard about God, do you think you would have a gut feeling that God exists? Why, or why not?

Tell me. Do you think a tight rope walker has faith? Why, or why not?

@Dan From Smithville
I probably shouldn't have said that's not faith, but rather your faith is not the same as my faith.
I'll explain later.

Then please explain your understanding of faith. I would be interested to read it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Do you believe the God of the NT will torment people in Hell?

Do you believe the God of the NT will torment people in Hell?

Do you know that everyone that does not believe is bound for Hell?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My definition is found in Hebrews 11:1
Let me know what you understand by it please.

I can look it up, but that is not your words. I am more interested to know your understanding of faith.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My definition is found in Hebrews 11:1
Let me know what you understand by it please.

What does "evidence of things not seen" mean to you? How can you have evidence of something that you cannot have evidence for?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My definition is found in Hebrews 11:1
Let me know what you understand by it please.

How is my statement "Faith is believing in something despite a lack of evidence for that something" different from the claim of Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"?

Hebrews 11:1 is a rather ambiguous statement that doesn't explain faith any better than I have.

 

[nPeace]

Then please explain your understanding of faith. I would be interested to read it.

What does "evidence of things not seen" mean to you? How can you have evidence of something that you cannot have evidence for?

Okay. Good question.
I'll like to refer to the question I posed, about the tight rope walker, and I will apply your faith, and mine.

First I will explain faith.
One has hope and expectations (beliefs) in things not seen, but they have evidence of these realities.

The tight rope walker reaching the other side of the rope is unseen. It is not a reality. <mistake> It is a really though unseen.
However, the tight rope walker has evidence of the things unseen, the realities not beheld.

What evidence?
His experience in successfully doing it before.
His knowledge of what makes it possible for him to do it - taking other things into consideration that may even require more faith, like his balance beam - if he has one, the rope and the fact that it will not do something out of the ordinary - like bounce like a rubberband, the wind - which cannot be seen, etc.
All of this is evidence.

A person who has never seen tight rope walking in his life, nor done it...
This is the one acting on gut feeling. He has no evidence, but he acts blindly.

Another example of faith, is seen in farming. A farmer who sows seed, has evidence that the seeds will sprout according to the kind of seed sown. His expectations for a carrot seed is not cabbage. His experience and knowledge dictates that.

We don't have to see the wind to know that there is a force in action. We have the evidence of its reality - even if at the time we don't know what the wind is, or can't explain it.

Do you know that everyone that does not believe is bound for Hell?

What do you mean by bound for hell? Do you mean that they will be cast into a fiery place of torment?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

So you mean that all who are taught about creation and/or God, are brainwashed, and no matter the age they remain brainwashed?.

Pretty much, yep. Living in the USA? Washes your brain from birth, with the religious indoctrination, pretty much all the time. You cannot escape it.

So someone who was never taught about creation and/or God, becomes brainwashed as long as they believe in creation - even if they are a brilliant scientist at the age of 45?.

Never happened. Nobody born in a modern country is free from religious brainwashing effects. It's literally everywhere, in the literature, in the TV, on the news, etc. Even the stupid politicians are shoving religion with every single ugly speech they make.

Are you suggesting that no person 90 years and over can think and reason properly?.

No.

Likely that's what you want to believe, but no, I am talking about atheist and agnostics that were raised, and grew up that way, and then they came to the conclusion that they got here by creation.
How are they brainwashed..

None such. They were all exposed to the ugly god-virus from the beginning. Otherwise, such irrational notions would never have taken root in a sane, rational brain.

People who are rational, and in control of the reasoning faculties, are convinced that God is real .

You just described an oxymoron: Not unlike saying a "married single guy".

- not because he convinces them, but because they used their reasoning abilities and became convinced..

Not a chance. As there is absolutely zero rational reason to believe in gods. If you HAD such a thing? YOU WOULD TELL US EVERY CHANCE. But you don't, so you don't.

Are you suggesting that no person that believes in God "is utterly rational, and in control of all their faculties"?.

By definition, actually. Because belief in god is irrational... so...

I don't find that to be the case. However, perhaps you are one who has had that experience?.

Of course! But YOU also believe in a Magic Boat that held 50,000 individual animals for nearly a YEAR and NONE ATE THE OTHERS.

So you are hardly an example of rational thinking...

Are you suggesting that all persons who believe in God do so only after/because they "suffer some extreme stress"?

Oh no! Most were brainwashed from birth. Proof?

The vast majority of people believe the same religion as their parents, or other relatives, or at least, the major religion of their culture.

IF you had been born in India? Odds are you'd be Hindu.

IF you had been born in Korea or Japan? Odds are you'd be Buddhist or some form of ancestor worship.

IF you had been born in Saudi Arabia? You'd either be Muslim, or dead.

Ain't it amazing that the One True Religion™ JUST happens to match where you were born?

 

[nPeace]

Pretty much, yep. Living in the USA? Washes your brain from birth, with the religious indoctrination, pretty much all the time. You cannot escape it.

Never happened. Nobody born in a modern country is free from religious brainwashing effects. It's literally everywhere, in the literature, in the TV, on the news, etc. Even the stupid politicians are shoving religion with every single ugly speech they make.



No.


None such. They were all exposed to the ugly god-virus from the beginning. Otherwise, such irrational notions would never have taken root in a sane, rational brain.


You just described an oxymoron: Not unlike saying a "married single guy".


Not a chance. As there is absolutely zero rational reason to believe in gods. If you HAD such a thing? YOU WOULD TELL US EVERY CHANCE. But you don't, so you don't.


By definition, actually. Because belief in god is irrational... so...



Of course! But YOU also believe in a Magic Boat that held 50,000 individual animals for nearly a YEAR and NONE ATE THE OTHERS.

So you are hardly an example of rational thinking...



Oh no! Most were brainwashed from birth. Proof?

The vast majority of people believe the same religion as their parents, or other relatives, or at least, the major religion of their culture.

IF you had been born in India? Odds are you'd be Hindu.

IF you had been born in Korea or Japan? Odds are you'd be Buddhist or some form of ancestor worship.

IF you had been born in Saudi Arabia? You'd either be Muslim, or dead.

Ain't it amazing that the One True Religion™ JUST happens to match where you were born?

So it seems to me that, from what you are saying, everyone that believes in a creator is stupid, and those that don't are rational thinkers...???
So all those brilliant scientist that believes, from what they observe, that life must have been created, are not using their head....???

So the scientist that were all brainwashed from birth, but came to believe in evolution, had a miraculous brain transplant from outer space, and therefore were able to think rationally...???
But the others weren't fortunate enough to get such a transplant, and were stuck with brainwashed minds that would not allow them to think rationally. So they remain in a stupor believing in a stupid creator...???


You know what Bob? I'm going to leave you now, and let you enjoy yourself.
Hey look! You even know how many animals went on board the ark...

Uh. See Yah.