I just don't know....

[Landerage]

Well, the concept of genetic switches was proposed several decades ago so it's not -that- recent... I mean, it's new compared to the heliocentric planetary system, but science has progressed some since then.
Perhaps, before you make absolute statements about what science knows and does not know, maybe you should actually do some studying.

Im sorry been around 3 years since I studied evolution, and the professor said they didnt know why yet.. anyways it's not the point.
What I meant by why, is that everything science do is explaining how this happens but never why this happen, however religion explain the "why" part but still not in a total way.
And you didnt answer me about what I said concerning mutation and the beautiful miracles gathering..
I dont know what evolution have to say about fruit taste sweet etc.. but I think your implying to chemical and biological processes etc.. etc.. more details but doesn't really explain the relationship between a human needs and what he finds in his nature. It's about the "why" not the "how"
I do think that your were a little persuaded by the sentance I said earlier

I mean the sun could have just rise and wake us up in our sleep in a very unbalanced way, nature can be ugly and trees can be black or endless other possibilities that would have made life miserable. or imagine if our eyes can only see in black and white.. linking all together not just on a biological side would make me sure that someone organised that

and might have made you think a little bit which I hope . Well best wishes

 

[bobhikes]

Welcome to the real world. Just be happy with what you know and try to make others happy.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I dont know what evolution have to say about fruit taste sweet etc.. but I think your implying to chemical and biological processes etc.. etc.. more details but doesn't really explain the relationship between a human needs and what he finds in his nature. It's about the "why" not the "how"

You're STILL dodging the question?
Look, can you answer it or not?
Seeing as my fifth grade elementary school students can, and you apparently are unable to, I have no other choice but to conclude that you don't know the first thing about Evolution and that you are talking out of your bum.

Last chance:
Thinking in evolutionary terms, why does fruit taste sweet and why are flowers beautiful and fragrant?

And yes, this is a test.

 

[Landerage]

You're STILL dodging the question?
Look, can you answer it or not?
Seeing as my fifth grade elementary school students can, and you apparently are unable to, I have no other choice but to conclude that you don't know the first thing about Evolution and that you are talking out of your bum.

Last chance:
Thinking in evolutionary terms, why does fruit taste sweet and why are flowers beautiful and fragrant?

And yes, this is a test.

Sry I can't answer that, but you can tell me your point of it maybe it seems something important. I hope you wasn't saying that im stupid in the way u said it, but idc...

 

[crocusj]

The answer of "why" is found in religion and if you dont wish to beleive it then it's your own choice.

Fantastic. So, why then?

 

[crocusj]

Thinking in evolutionary terms, why does fruit taste sweet and why are flowers beautiful and fragrant?

And yes, this is a test.

So better to ferment and because I'm a farter. Do I pass?

 

[jarofthoughts]

Sry I can't answer that, but you can tell me your point of it maybe it seems something important. I hope you wasn't saying that im stupid in the way u said it, but idc...

Well, considering that you cannot answer that question I am forced to conclude that you know next to nothing about the Theory of Evolution and have little if any understanding of its workings.
Thus I would highly recommend that until you have educated yourself to a much higher degree you should refrain from making bold statements about what it can and cannot explain.
I try to avoid calling people stupid but in this case I think the adjective ignorant might be appropriate.

 

[jarofthoughts]

So better to ferment and because I'm a farter. Do I pass?

Sorry mate. That's an 'F'.

 

[`mud]

Beautiful flowers attract the bees all the time,
and the sweetness of fruit lures the gnats.
But a big black fly prefers a big turd first !
~
Just I thought I'd throw that in !
~
`mud

 

[rageoftyrael]

Well, i'm gonna try and answer your question, jarofthoughts, and hopefully not look stupid. I would imagine that a flower being fragrant has to do with attracting the bees, hummingbirds, and such so that they are better able to pollinate. As for them being beautiful, if we ignore the subjective aspect of that word, and just try to answer the question, i imagine it would be for the same reason they are fragrant. they are "beautiful" to attract attention, to be pollinated.

As for apples tasting sweet, i don't know to much at all about apples and how they work, but i would just like to point out that not all things have to revolve around people. I don't know how apples spread, so i can't tell you why i think it is. But, there are literally millions of different types of plants, and when you think about it, of those millions, we can only safely consume a small fraction of them. So, what about an apple is so special? If you look at it from a statistical point of view, there had to be a few we could eat..... the fact that they taste good, is subjective, especially since not all people agree that apples are as awesome as you seem to think, Landerage.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Well, i'm gonna try and answer your question, jarofthoughts, and hopefully not look stupid. I would imagine that a flower being fragrant has to do with attracting the bees, hummingbirds, and such so that they are better able to pollinate. As for them being beautiful, if we ignore the subjective aspect of that word, and just try to answer the question, i imagine it would be for the same reason they are fragrant. they are "beautiful" to attract attention, to be pollinated.

And that is an adequate answer.
The evolutionary basis is simply that fragrant flowers which smelled appealing to insects would have been better at reproducing because they would have pollinated more easily, and thus there is a selection pressure for flowers to smell sweet (or, at least, attractive to insects).

Of course, this is not the only strategy adopted by plants for reproduction, but it appears that it is one that a lot of people sometimes forget, and thinking that it is so that we can have something nice to smell is just ignorant.

The point of the question is to show whether someone has understood the evolutionary advantage of smelling appealing or not, which goes to show how well they have understood the basic principles of the Theory of Evolution.

 

[Copernicus]

Of course, this is not the only strategy adopted by plants for reproduction, but it appears that it is one that a lot of people sometimes forget, and thinking that it is so that we can have something nice to smell is just ignorant.

It is worth pointing out that plants don't really have a literal "strategy", but it is almost impossible to teach people anything without the use of metaphors that help them relate a new concept to familiar experiences. Intelligent beings "strategize", not organisms faced with selection pressure. Sometimes people get confused by the metaphors and start thinking of evolution as a kind of intelligent process that moves in a deliberate direction. Strategies have goals. So people often come to the false conclusion that humans are more "evolved" than other animals, when, in fact, all animals are equally "evolved". Many theists believe that God has influenced the direction of evolution to produce human beings as a kind of "end product" of evolution.

 

[rageoftyrael]

Well, at least those theists are willing to concede the validity of evolution. Even if they do warp it for their own use.

 

[jarofthoughts]

It is worth pointing out that plants don't really have a literal "strategy", but it is almost impossible to teach people anything without the use of metaphors that help them relate a new concept to familiar experiences. Intelligent beings "strategize", not organisms faced with selection pressure. Sometimes people get confused by the metaphors and start thinking of evolution as a kind of intelligent process that moves in a deliberate direction. Strategies have goals. So people often come to the false conclusion that humans are more "evolved" than other animals, when, in fact, all animals are equally "evolved". Many theists believe that God has influenced the direction of evolution to produce human beings as a kind of "end product" of evolution.

Very true.
No flower ever sat down and thought "Now, if only I smelled sweeter I am sure that the bees would find me appealing and come collect my pollen".
Alas, it is hard to explain these things without some analogies, but you are indeed correct; it is vital to understand that no conscious decision is behind biological evolution.

 

[rageoftyrael]

Yeah, not only that, people don't understand that evolution doesn't always mean better. it just means change. an inferior change CAN become common, through evolution. humans, for example. at this point, due to how well we control our environment, and that our technology has increased enough that we are able to keep people with diseases, genetic defects, etc. alive, so that they can procreate, we are evolving in the opposite direction. defects are slowly becoming more common. and that is evolution. to an extent, of course.

 

[waitasec]

So, as i look at the world, as i allow what i know and think i know to ruminate in my head, i've come to the conclusion, somewhat, that i've no clue whether there is a god or not. Nothing makes sense! Every answer presented has flaws that i find quite readily, and even the answers where i don't find flaws quickly, i eventually find them later. When i talk about my beliefs in the afterlife, and the answers presented by science as possible explanations, i simply have come to the conclusion, that i don't really believe in much of anything at this point.

Evolution? Makes sense for the most part, but the dilemma i see is say one cell "evolves". Now, isn't this a fairly random process? So, why would another "evolve" the same way? What makes them compatible, to mate, if you will? That's one issue i have with evolution. The big bang theory, well, that's easy, there's no proof whatsoever, so why would i believe it?

Basically, i'm an atheist who doesn't even profess, nay, even feel belief for the answers most atheists cling to happily. And yet, when i look upon the whole god issue, i feel no belief there either. I don't see it one way or the other.

I can see why deists choose to believe in something larger than us, because it hardly makes sense that everything would come about randomly, and yet, why not?

Lol, at this point i'm rambling. What i'm looking for here is maybe how you guys feel about it. Am i the only one who just doesn't believe in any of it? What the heck is going on? And why? Of course, asking why presupposes that there is a design, and i don't believe that.

To me, science doesn't trump religion, if science can't PROVE anything. Though, of course, i just don't believe in religion. You?

science and evolution...these are all just someone else's idea being expanded upon... try to not take it so seriously
the one thing that gives me solace is the here and now...
hug a loved one, and divert potential regrets into opportunity
everything else is just nonsensical...there's one life to live, so live it as if it's the one and only shot..

 

[jarofthoughts]

science and evolution...these are all just someone else's idea being expanded upon... try to not take it so seriously

Of course, why should we take seriously the ideas that has essentially built modern society, which are responsible for saving the lives of billions around the globe and has enriched the lives of billions more.

Nope. No need to take that seriously at all... :sarcastic

 

[waitasec]

Of course, why should we take seriously the ideas that has essentially built modern society, which are responsible for saving the lives of billions around the globe and has enriched the lives of billions more.

Nope. No need to take that seriously at all... :sarcastic

there are ideas that are responsible for other things that are not so nice as well...wouldn't you say?

my point is, it's good to take a step back because sometimes we can't see the forrest for the trees when we are observing specific details.

 

[jarofthoughts]

there are ideas that are responsible for other things that are not so nice as well...wouldn't you say?

Could you clarify please?

my point is, it's good to take a step back because sometimes we can't see the forrest for the trees when we are observing specific details.

And my point was that having at least a basic understanding of the most important idea in human history, the Scientific method, and how it has shaped our society, is important and should be taken very seriously indeed.
Speaking collectively, science has been the most worthwhile endeavour we humans have ever embarked upon and that is not likely to change.

 

[waitasec]

Could you clarify please?

sure, the a bomb for one...
and just because science has revealed opportunities doesn't necessarily mean we should take them.
for example, the invention of the automobile that depends on oil
with regards to the green house effect

And my point was that having at least a basic understanding of the most important idea in human history, the Scientific method, and how it has shaped our society, is important and should be taken very seriously indeed.
Speaking collectively, science has been the most worthwhile endeavour we humans have ever embarked upon and that is not likely to change.

i agree with this 100% but we have to contend with our human nature as the OP suggested... ones self doubt.

which again would prove the scientific method to be the most important contribution to society