1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured I have another question for YOU to ignore

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by savagewind, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,454
    Ratings:
    +521
    Religion:
    Christian
    An idol is anything that is held higher than God. That becomes your idol of worship.
     
  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe if a person is leading a wicked life and they think that is who they are then they deserve hell. I believe he is not a buly because a bully is unjust but God uses His power justly.
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that is tantamount to what I said.
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't think I was removed but I certainly was muffled and sometimes I am here as well.
     
  5. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    If you might please get beyond your opinion of me and consider this question.
    If God has really protected what the Bible really is supposed to teach
    why does God not also protect life?
    Why was Eve not protected?
    Why were the kings of Israel not protected?
    Why are little children not protected?
    Why are animals not protected?
    Why is nature not being protected?
     
  6. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    If a person has to believe that God made all the men who wrote, copied. translated and copied the Bible do it all right does he not also have to believe that God can but won't make everyone else live right?
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe God can't do two opposite things at the same time.
     
  8. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Protecting every word in the Bible and not protecting a small child from rape are not opposites unless one is righteous and the other is evil.

    I don't consider protecting words, jots, and tittles a righteous occupation.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe without the Biblical injunction against rape it is impossible to protect children that way. The other way is to eliminate evil but that is bad news for those who are evil.
     
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    That is true, but what I am contrasting is God's will to protect words but not people.
    I understand that God will not stop a person from doing bad.
    But many people, you included, understand that God WILL stop a person from inserting into the Bible words that are not God's words.
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Have I? Yes, I have.
     
  12. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +116
    Religion:
    Christian
    savagewind,
    I can’t see anything about these Scriptures that is hard to understand. The last verse tells why, they are workers of lawlessness, which is sin, not doing the things mentioned in sincerity. Notice many of the things they mentioned as doing are the same things that Satan, the deceiver does, 1John 3:4, 2Thessalonians 2:8-10.
    If a person’s heart is good, he will be doing the things of the spirit, not of the flesh, Galatians 5:22,23, 16-21.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I understand that and I agree with it.
    It wasn't what the question was about.
    When I was a Jehovah's Witness, I remember being warned about letting the conscience become calloused or insensitive.
    I see that insensitivity is becoming epidemic especially among the Jehovah's Witnesses.
    The question is about the logic of the Word.
    If it is the END when Jesus says, "get away from me" and at the end evil will be eliminated where oh where! is he telling them to get away TO?

    Where is he telling them to get away to?

    Isn't it at the end Jesus judges and the wicked are destroyed?

    Can you tell how destroyed means they can actually "get away"?
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,547
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe I would love to believe that but I have read the Good News version of the Bible.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +116
    Religion:
    Christian
    savagewind,
    Jesus was trying to impress upon those he was talking to, that there Works were not acceptable to him, at that time. Jesus was not condemning them to death, remember the Bible tells us that Jesus came to save men not to condemn them, John 3:17. Then verse 18 says that if they did not believe they were judged already. That judging is not permanent, God and His son want all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, 1Timothy, 2:1-6, 2Peter 3:9.
    Jesus was not always sweet and kind as some think. Jesus could read hearts, and he said things to shock his listeners, who he had talked to before, and he saw that his regular way of teaching was not getting through to them. One very good example is at Matthew 23:33. Here Jesus was talking to the religious leaders, and he was trying to shock them out of their ways, that was leading them into Gehenna, a symbol of everlasting death. Another case is at John 8:43-47, where Jesus tried to shock the religious leaders, by telling them that their father was the Devil. We know that many of the religious leaders finally listened to his words, because many later became believers, so Jesus knew exactly what was needed, and just because they were certainly going wrong, many repented, Acts 6:7.
    One of Jesus’ parables touches on this same point, Matthew 13:24-30. Here Jesus tells his followers to let the believers and the unbelievers grow together until the Harvest Time. This shows that anyone has until Jesus comes again to decide. Both God and Jesus is patient with all, but time is running out quickly today. All the troubles we see in the world today are the things that Jesus said would be happening as a Sign, that Jesus is at the very door, Matthew 24:3. Jesus’ disciples asked for a sign, and Jesus went in detail in this 24th chapter, Mark 13th and Luke 21st chapter,
    about what would be happening when he would return. When Jesus returns, it will be for Judgement of this world, it will be to late to decide, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 17:31, 2Thessalonians 1:6-9. Agape!!!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    @12jtartar Thank you. Verse 22 says "on that day". What day? You say it isn't about the end of those false Christians but isn't it?
     
  17. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Are the people Jesus talking to here - Matthew 7:23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
    the same people as Jesus is talking to here? - Matthew 25:45 "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

    And, do the people he speaks to there have a second chance after that?

    The Jehovah's Witnesses (I think @12jtartar is a JW. Am I wrong?) teach that the day of Jehovah is when the wicked will be destroyed forever. Isn't it?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
  19. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    What is a disciple of Jesus?
    John 8:31 If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciple
    How can you make somebody hold to any teaching?
    John 15:8 This is to My Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
    How can you make someone bear fruit?
    Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
    How can you make someone else's light shine?
    1 Peter 2:12 Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.
    How can you make another person conduct himself with honor?

    A disciple of Jesus is a person who is taught by Jesus, who holds to his teaching, who bears fruit, (not hypocritical fruit!), whose light shines on Jesus Christ (not a one mind organization), and who conducts himself with honor.

    I am not saying that the Jehovah's Witnesses never do those. I am saying that you can't make anyone do those. So, make at Matthew 28:19 is a misunderstanding.

    What do you think about people who insist on believing wrongly ie misunderstanding?

    Will not Jehovah destroy them? If an interested person reads between the lines of the Watchtower what they do really learn?
     
    #1639 savagewind, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +4,209
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    He says (just like the people of Babylon the Great say) that teaching them is what makes them disciples.

    Can you teach a tree to bear fruit? What kind of fruit? The fruit a tree will bear by cultivating it will always and forever be in the image of YOUR teaching!

    Jesus did not make disciples. He gathered them!
     
Loading...