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I have a question for Deeje.And all other jws and non jws

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
What do you think of Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 23:6-9 and Mark 6:47-51?:confused: Does this imply that ghosts are real?:confused: I would like posts from non jws and jws.To get a better comparison of what i am looking at.I would turn full jw.But i am methodist.And the only reason my beliefs go from methodist to jw is my belief about the soul.My methodist side believes in souls leaving the body and going right to heaven.But the jw part of me doesn't.So far my methodist side is winning.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What do you think of Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 23:6-9 and Mark 6:47-51?:confused: Does this imply that ghosts are real?:confused:

Lets see what we have here....
Luke 24:36-39...
"While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: “May you have peace.” 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit. 38 So he said to them: “Why are you troubled, and why have doubts come up in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you see that I have.”

Recall what the disciples thought a "spirit" was? Jesus was casting out "spirits" from people who came to him.
They were evil spirits....not spirits of the dead, but demonic spirits.
It was against God's law to have anything to do with deceptive spirits, so you can understand their concern.
He drew attention to the fact that he was in the flesh...he was NOT a spirit.

Acts 23:6-9....
"Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” 7 Because he said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was split. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all. 9 So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the Pharisees rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him."

Not sure why this is mentioned as Jesus did not subscribe to the beliefs of either of these sects.

Mark 6:47-51...
"When evening had fallen, the boat was in the middle of the sea, but he was alone on the land. 48 So when he saw them struggling to row, for the wind was against them, about the fourth watch of the night he came toward them, walking on the sea; but he was inclined to pass them by. 49 On catching sight of him walking on the sea, they thought: “It is an apparition!” And they cried out. 50 For they all saw him and were troubled. But immediately he spoke to them and said: “Take courage! It is I; do not be afraid.” 51 Then he got up into the boat with them, and the wind abated. At this they were utterly amazed".

When they said "it is an apparition" the Greek word is "phantasma" and it means ....
  1. an appearance

  2. an apparition, spectre (Strongs)
"Ghost" does not belong in that verse. Jesus was still alive when this happened. It was before his execution, not after.

I would like posts from non jws and jws.To get a better comparison of what i am looking at.I would turn full jw.But i am methodist.And the only reason my beliefs go from methodist to jw is my belief about the soul.My methodist side believes in souls leaving the body and going right to heaven.But the jw part of me doesn't.So far my methodist side is winning.

I hope you can resolve your issues Frank.
There is no such thing as ghosts. (as in the spirits of dead people) There are demonic spirits who impersonate the dead to lead people to believe that satan's first lie in Eden was true...."you surely will not die"...but they did, so satan maintained his lie by inventing an immortal soul that goes on living....somewhere else invisibly. The church did the rest by inventing places like hell and purgatory. The dead are dead. They are not conscious at all. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10)

Jesus taught about resurrection.....he even performed a few himself. But in order to resurrect someone, they have to be dead. Immortal souls cannot die, so you have a contradiction.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Selective citation and interpretation can justify many diverse conflicting beliefs, especially if you are relying on ancient text over 2,000 years old of poor provenance..
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So far my methodist side is winning.

It's no about wining sides. this is not a competition. If you're looking for the truth, then check what the bible says . Deeje gave you a very complete answer and there's no point for me to repeat what she said, but please do your own research.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
What i don't get is Acts 23:9.It makes it sound like the Pharisees thought talking to a spirit was a good thing.:confused:
Lets see what we have here....
Luke 24:36-39...
"While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: “May you have peace.” 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit. 38 So he said to them: “Why are you troubled, and why have doubts come up in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you see that I have.”

Recall what the disciples thought a "spirit" was? Jesus was casting out "spirits" from people who came to him.
They were evil spirits....not spirits of the dead, but demonic spirits.
It was against God's law to have anything to do with deceptive spirits, so you can understand their concern.
He drew attention to the fact that he was in the flesh...he was NOT a spirit.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Why? They were accusing Paul....thy didn't like him.

Acts 23:6-9....
"Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” 7 Because he said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was split. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all. 9 So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the Pharisees rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him."

If you look the Sadduees didn't like what Paul was saying.But in Acts 23:9.It says the Pharisees couldn't find anything wrong with him.Also in Acts 23:9 it says the Pharisees thought a spirit could of talked to Paul.And they thought that was a good thing.

Why would the pharisees want to talk to demons?:confused:
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Acts 23:6-9....
"Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” 7 Because he said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was split. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all. 9 So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the Pharisees rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him."

If you look the Sadduees didn't like what Paul was saying.But in Acts 23:9.It says the Pharisees couldn't find anything wrong with him.Also in Acts 23:9 it says the Pharisees thought a spirit could of talked to Paul.And they thought that was a good thing.

Why would the pharisees want to talk to demons?:confused:
Grief, Frank. The Pharisees didn't like Paul, either. It was only one point that they were agreeing on. They were trying to stick it to the Saducees! That's why Paul said it.

They'd probably like to think that Paul was talking to demons.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Your "Methodist side is winning"....because I really think you want it to.

Let the Scriptures teach you ! Reason on things! Acts of the Apostles 17:2
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Lets see what we have here....
Luke 24:36-39...
"While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: “May you have peace.” 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit. 38 So he said to them: “Why are you troubled, and why have doubts come up in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you see that I have.”

Recall what the disciples thought a "spirit" was? Jesus was casting out "spirits" from people who came to him.
They were evil spirits....not spirits of the dead, but demonic spirits.
It was against God's law to have anything to do with deceptive spirits, so you can understand their concern.
He drew attention to the fact that he was in the flesh...he was NOT a spirit.

Acts 23:6-9....
"Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” 7 Because he said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was split. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all. 9 So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the Pharisees rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him."

Not sure why this is mentioned as Jesus did not subscribe to the beliefs of either of these sects.

Mark 6:47-51...
"When evening had fallen, the boat was in the middle of the sea, but he was alone on the land. 48 So when he saw them struggling to row, for the wind was against them, about the fourth watch of the night he came toward them, walking on the sea; but he was inclined to pass them by. 49 On catching sight of him walking on the sea, they thought: “It is an apparition!” And they cried out. 50 For they all saw him and were troubled. But immediately he spoke to them and said: “Take courage! It is I; do not be afraid.” 51 Then he got up into the boat with them, and the wind abated. At this they were utterly amazed".

When they said "it is an apparition" the Greek word is "phantasma" and it means ....
  1. an appearance

  2. an apparition, spectre (Strongs)
"Ghost" does not belong in that verse. Jesus was still alive when this happened. It was before his execution, not after.



I hope you can resolve your issues Frank.
There is no such thing as ghosts. (as in the spirits of dead people) There are demonic spirits who impersonate the dead to lead people to believe that satan's first lie in Eden was true...."you surely will not die"...but they did, so satan maintained his lie by inventing an immortal soul that goes on living....somewhere else invisibly. The church did the rest by inventing places like hell and purgatory. The dead are dead. They are not conscious at all. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10)

Jesus taught about resurrection.....he even performed a few himself. But in order to resurrect someone, they have to be dead. Immortal souls cannot die, so you have a contradiction.

I keep thinking that this is from some website i looked at awhile ago(all the stuff in my first post).And i found it: Death is a departure to the spirit world, not extinction

When you get to the website go all the way down.And you will see "I think I saw a ghost!" (Jesus' Disciples).Please read and tell me what you think.As always i want replies from jws and non jws.To get a good comparison.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
What do you think of Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 23:6-9 and Mark 6:47-51?:confused: Does this imply that ghosts are real?:confused: I would like posts from non jws and jws.To get a better comparison of what i am looking at.I would turn full jw.But i am methodist.And the only reason my beliefs go from methodist to jw is my belief about the soul.My methodist side believes in souls leaving the body and going right to heaven.But the jw part of me doesn't.So far my methodist side is winning.
Hello Frank, I got your PM....I apologise for my late reply.
I really can't add any more than what @Deeje has said.

Other than, saying outright that ghosts are demons, impostering the dead. When you take into consideration that Revelation 12:9 & Revelation 12:12 is telling the truth...I'd beware of any belief that seems to be ubiquitous. 'The dead are alive' is one.

Take care, my cousin. Pray to Jehovah to help you.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
What i don't get is Acts 23:9.It makes it sound like the Pharisees thought talking to a spirit was a good thing.:confused:
Frank, Let's say for argument's sake that the Pharisees thought that talking to a spirit was a good thing.
Question #1. What are they talking to?
a) a dead
b) a living dead
c) a half dead half living dead
d) none of the above (Please state what)

Question #2 What is Gods view of seeking to communicate with the dead, and why did God condemn all of the following?
Deuteronomy 18:10-13
10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. 13 You should prove yourself blameless before Jehovah your God.
 
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