• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I have a question for all the different religions on this board

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What do you think poltergeists are?

"Poltergeist" is from the mid 19th century: from German Poltergeist, from poltern ‘create a disturbance’ + Geist ‘ghost’. (Google search)

Since these "spirits" (geists) are not former humans, but demon spirits who want to cause fear and trembling among humans, spiritism is not something we want to mess around with. The activity of these "spirits can range from childlike mischief (making unexplained noises) to downright maliciousness, influencing humans to carry out unconscionable acts of cruelty. The activities of these spirits are spoken about in scripture....and we are warned to steer clear of them. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
"Poltergeist" is from the mid 19th century: from German Poltergeist, from poltern ‘create a disturbance’ + Geist ‘ghost’. (Google search)

Since these "spirits" (geists) are not former humans, but demon spirits who want to cause fear and trembling among humans, spiritism is not something we want to mess around with. The activity of these "spirits can range from childlike mischief (making unexplained noises) to downright maliciousness, influencing humans to carry out unconscionable acts of cruelty. The activities of these spirits are spoken about in scripture....and we are warned to steer clear of them. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

It's fake.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Probably nothing else, but an uneducated guess onto sources of noises and movements of objects. If you go to old houses wood have different temperature expansion coefficients (not sure if that's how you put it in english) and expansion room is not accounted for. You can get some interesting sounds when the building materials expand because you walk somewhere or the temperature changes. I was recently at a house like that where closing one door could lead to a series of noises, when the fireplace was cooling at night some tensions in the wood also caused some noises.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Most of the time they are definitely tricks of perception.

It really pays off to study a bit of psychology in order to understand them.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
What do you think poltergeists are?
Going by this definition... a ghost or other supernatural being supposedly responsible for physical disturbances such as loud noises and objects thrown around.
I would just replace ghost with spirit being, or remove it all together.
However, that's the name man gives to this phenomenon. I just know that the Bible speaks of spirit beings, that torment, and otherwise interact with persons in one way or other. Mark 5:2-13; 9:16-29

Just wondering what you or others think. Is it possible to move objects with the mind, do you think?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
He gave a valid answer to your question. If you had a more specific mechanism in mind when you asked, you should have specified it.
Oh..? Looking back at my question, it seems clear, but I should probably have taken into consideration how different we think.
I really thought David was just playing, but...

Why do you think it needs to be more specific?
Should I have gone into what the mind is, for example?

Okay. I'll do that then, just for those who really don't know what was meant..
Mind
noun
  1. the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought.
  2. a person's intellect.
I think I should explain that your body requires a number of things to move - muscles and nerves are essential.
What causes body to move?

For example, a paralytic can have a mind, and not be able to move, any part of his body. Some normal functions will still take place, by ongoing processes, like the blood flowing, providing the energy needed for other parts to work. Many of these work automatically, without any effort on our part.

However, to prevent any technicalities that can be inserted even into these explanations, I'll be specific about the mechanism.

My question is about what persons refer to as Telekinesis or psychokinetic ability (Psychokinesis).
Is it possible to move objects with the mind, do you think?
I'll start, because I think I know the answer you and most here will give.

I don't believe it possible.
So what explanation do you suggest as to the supposed theory?

I also want to submit that because people use fraud, and trickery, or lies, does not mean that something should be ruled out, because of this, or lack of understanding.
Otherwise, we should throw the theory of evolution in the garbage, where I believe it belongs.... but let's not get into that here. :D
We can have a separate thread for that.

I want to submit that not everyone claiming to know how do something genuinely know they can. It's like science. I can mix up something, not knowing why I mixed it, and not knowing why I got the result. I'll leave that there. :D
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Oh..? Looking back at my question, it seems clear, but I should probably have taken into consideration how different we think.

I really thought David was just playing, but...
I think he was too but he made a valid point all the same. All too often, these kinds of “supernatural” phenomena are talked about in very casual, generic and fuzzy ways and yet there are people making definitive assertions about ideas being real (sometimes with practical consequences). In a lot of cases this seems to be quite deliberate – they know they can’t back up their claims with facts but don’t want to admit that they’d like them accepted on faith.

In any other field, a claim of something entirely new and unusual existing requires a lot more detail and significant direct evidence to support proposing that specific explanation. Essentially it’s the observation and hypothesis steps in the scientific process and while we not talking formal scientific presentation here, there needs to be at least some structure and detail to the claims.

The thing claims for telekinesis always seem to be missing is any kind of hypothesis (let alone any evidence for it) of exactly how whatever energy exists in the brain/mind is converted to the kinetic energy we know causes physical movement. Ironically, David propose such a mechanism – brain signals trigger muscles and muscles turn chemical energy into kinetic energy. A serious claim that telekinesis exists requires at least a proposed alternative explanation for that process. I can’t answer your question of whether telekinesis is possible without at some kind of development of the idea in that direction.

I want to submit that not everyone claiming to know how do something genuinely know they can. It's like science. I can mix up something, not knowing why I mixed it, and not knowing why I got the result. I'll leave that there. :D
I agree, but someone who does understand could investigate your observations and work out the why (and how). Until they do, you only have the observations. In the context of telekinesis, “objects moving without any apparent cause” would be the observation. Telekinesis could be part of the why.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What do you think poltergeists are?

I have to go with a simple answer, 'unknown.' I do not believe the 'supernatural' exists. What is called the 'supernatural' is simply the natural not understood. I am both a scientist and a Theist, and the natural physical existence is the reflection and manifestation of the attributes of of the 'Source' some call God(s), and the spiritual worlds beyond ours.

As far as the reality of our physical existence I take any claims of the manifestations of the 'supernatural' claimed and supposedly witnessed by many as evidence of spiritual realms beyond the physical with skepticism.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I think he was too but he made a valid point all the same. All too often, these kinds of “supernatural” phenomena are talked about in very casual, generic and fuzzy ways and yet there are people making definitive assertions about ideas being real (sometimes with practical consequences). In a lot of cases this seems to be quite deliberate – they know they can’t back up their claims with facts but don’t want to admit that they’d like them accepted on faith.

In any other field, a claim of something entirely new and unusual existing requires a lot more detail and significant direct evidence to support proposing that specific explanation. Essentially it’s the observation and hypothesis steps in the scientific process and while we not talking formal scientific presentation here, there needs to be at least some structure and detail to the claims.

The thing claims for telekinesis always seem to be missing is any kind of hypothesis (let alone any evidence for it) of exactly how whatever energy exists in the brain/mind is converted to the kinetic energy we know causes physical movement. Ironically, David propose such a mechanism – brain signals trigger muscles and muscles turn chemical energy into kinetic energy. A serious claim that telekinesis exists requires at least a proposed alternative explanation for that process. I can’t answer your question of whether telekinesis is possible without at some kind of development of the idea in that direction.

I agree, but someone who does understand could investigate your observations and work out the why (and how). Until they do, you only have the observations. In the context of telekinesis, “objects moving without any apparent cause” would be the observation. Telekinesis could be part of the why.
Like I said, I thought David was just playing. I do that sometimes myself. ;)
Energy is understood to a degree, but not completely, and perhaps to a very small degree.
There are a lot of thing science don't know or understand, and never will, imo.
The thing about people who are naturalist, is that they call anything impossible as long as they don't see it, or know of it, or even are skeptical about it. @HonestJoe I should add here, until it involve creating an idea as evidence to explain a theory, or fact.
I don't subscribe to such a mind. I call it narrow.
What I don't know, or can't prove, or disprove, is open to me.
There are things people are aware the cannot disprove, yet they will say - "Can't happen, Nope." They even go as far as to say they know, when they know nothing.
To each his own though. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

There was something said which I think demonstrates reasonableness...
*** it-2 p. 411 Miracles ***
...capable scientists are becoming increasingly cautious about saying that a certain thing is impossible. Professor John R. Brobeck of the University of Pennsylvania stated: “A scientist is no longer able to say honestly something is impossible. He can only say it is improbable. But he may be able to say something is impossible to explain in terms of our present knowledge. Science cannot say that all properties of matter and all forms of energy are now known. . . . [For a miracle] one thing that needs to be added is a source of energy unknown to us in our biological and physiological sciences. In our Scriptures this source of energy is identified as the power of God.” (Time, July 4, 1955) Since this statement was made, further scientific development has made it more emphatic.

We know there are things that will never be accepted by the physical man (by that I don't mean mortal - see link).
They are not interested in making such investigations, and neither are they interested in accepting any evidence evidently.
For example...
How can a person test the power of faith, prayer, or spiritually - even spirit, when as I said, they are frauds, tricksters, and people who just do things without knowing why they do them?
We can look at results, but is prayer something someone can run an experiment on?
Isn't prayer something personal - between the individual and God?
Can someone sit in a room and pray for something, in order that researchers can determine that prayer works?
Isn't that the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?
It is to me... So ridiculous it tickles every time.
d5e51f9f998dff6be775493c292386db.gif

The things naturalist think about at times is "killing".

If you are interested, this link gives some ideas of how persons feel Telekinesis is possible from a scientific point of view.
Some physicist believe in this connection. As the above article shows, some link it to Quantum entanglement.
I think there is more to it.

I am currently watching this video, and looking into his story, as to if it can be confirmed by facts.
I'm in the middle of reading about the Patricia Hearst case. Quite an interesting one.
 
Last edited:
Top