I Hate Socialism

[Nakosis]

If you mean contracts to private companies, the so called panacea that will reduce costs, that isn't working out very well in a lot of cases.

Nope, just mean taxes levied to the general population.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you mean contracts to private companies, the so called panacea that will reduce costs, that isn't working out very well in a lot of cases.

Contracts require proper drafting & management.
When government handles things poorly in-house,
things often go poorly when out-sourced by the
same minions who messed up things internally.
But there is still potential for improvement in cost
effectiveness. Just no guarantees.

 

[lukethethird]

Contracts require proper drafting & management.
When government handles things poorly in-house,
things often go poorly when out-sourced by the
same minions who messed up things internally.
But there is still potential for improvement in cost
effectiveness. Just no guarantees.

Contracts can also open doors to kickbacks, cronyism, nepotism, conflicts of interest, and so on. No doubt im some cases they are beneficial, but they are not the all and end all that we have heard about the last few decades.

 

[Revoltingest]

Contracts can also open doors to kickbacks, cronyism, nepotism, conflicts of interest, and so on. No doubt im some cases they are beneficial, but they are not the all and end all that we have heard about the last few decades.

Doing things in-house is also subject to cronyism,
nepotism, conflicts of interest, payroll padding,
payroll fraud, time card fraud, & mismanagement.
All we can do is hope that the best decision in
each case is made.
I've seen the complexities of such things.
I'll spare you stories.

 

[lukethethird]

Doing things in-house is also subject to cronyism,
nepotism, conflicts of interest, payroll padding,
payroll fraud, time card fraud, & mismanagement.
All we can do is hope that the best decision in
each case is made.
I've seen the complexities of such things.
I'll spare you stories.

True, when people are involved...

 

[metis]

Contracts can also open doors to kickbacks, cronyism, nepotism, conflicts of interest, and so on. No doubt im some cases they are beneficial, but they are not the all and end all that we have heard about the last few decades.

According to an old FBI estimate, there is more money involved through white-collar crime than blue-collar crime-- estimated as being four times more.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

According to an old FBI estimate, there is more money involved through white-collar crime than blue-collar crime-- estimated as being four times more.

The single most common and largest form of theft (in monetary value) in the US is wage theft, so this makes a lot of sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

The single most common and largest form of theft (in monetary value) in the US is wage theft, so this makes a lot of sense.

I've seen this...employees who spend much
time goofing off instead of working for their pay.
When my father-in-law worked for Voice Of
America, he had one employee who ran a real
estate business out of a federal government
office. Under orders to give everyone a positive
review, he couldn't stop this wage theft.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I've seen this...employees who spend much
time goofing off instead of working for their pay.
When my father-in-law worked for Voice Of
America, he had one employee who ran a real
estate business out of a federal government
office. Under orders to give everyone a positive
review, he couldn't stop this wage theft.

That's not what wage theft is. Wage theft is when employers fail to provide employees with the full wages or benefits that they are entitled to per contract.

I'm not sure how common slacking employees not being able to be let go is, but I know that wage theft counts for more money stolen than robbery, auto theft, burglary and larceny combined. The most common form of wage theft, apparently, is being made to work through unpaid meal breaks, with minimum wage violations being second, and unpaid overtime being third.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's not what wage theft is.

Hah!
Not from the perspective of an employer.

Wage theft is when employers fail to provide employees with the full wages or benefits that they are entitled to per contract.

I've never experienced that.
But employees stealing from me...big problem.
Anti-employer fans never focus upon that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Hah!
Not from the perspective of an employer.

Erm. No, definitionally.

I've never experienced that.
But employees stealing from me...big problem.
Anti-employer fans never focus upon that.

Do you have any statistics to show that employees stealing from employers tops $20 billion annually?

 

[Revoltingest]

Erm. No, definitionally.

I know the definition of "wage" & "theft".
It applies.
I've also had them embezzle money, & steal tools
BTW, employee wage theft is also called "time theft".

Do you have any statistics to show that employees stealing from employers tops $20 billion annually?

I've not looked any up.
No need to...I oppose all theft.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I know the definition of "wage" & "theft".

Okay. I'm talking about "wage theft", though. When I said it was the biggest form of theft in America, that's the thing I was referring to.

Employees steal wages by what's also called "time theft".

So, if wage theft is the most common form of theft in America, where does "time theft" rank?

I've not looked any up.
No need to...I oppose all theft.

Okay. I think it's a bit weird to get defensive like this when somebody points out that employees having their wages stolen by employers is literally the most common and prolific form of theft in America.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay. I'm talking about "wage theft", though. When I said it was the biggest form of theft in America, that's the thing I was referring to.

I'm pointing out that theft in the workplace is
a bigger problem than what you're addressing.
Based upon my experience & that of other
employers I know, employees stealing is a far
greater problem. For one thing, there are
severe sanctions by the state against employers
who don't pay all the wages or payroll taxes.
But embezzlement isn't even considered a
crime. Personal experience there trying to
get them prosecuted...the Sheriff's Department
won't arrest them, & the prosecutor won't
prosecute.
This situation means there won't be any
readily available statistics on crimes that
never see a courtroom.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm pointing out that theft in the workplace is
a bigger problem than what you're addressing.

Bigger than... the most common and prolific form of theft in America?

Based upon my experience & that of other
employers I know, employees stealing is a far
greater problem.

I'll believe it when there is actual evidence for it.

For one thing, there are
severe sanctions by the state against employers
who don't pay all the wages or payroll taxes.

And yet wage theft is still the most common and prolific form of theft in America.

But embezzlement isn't even considered a
crime. Personal experience there trying to
get them prosecuted...the Sheriff's Department
won't arrest them, & the prosecutor won't
prosecute.
This situation means there won't be any
readily available statistics on crimes that
never see a courtroom.

I don't care. Why do you think your personal experience is relevant when talking about the fact that wage theft is the most common form of theft in the world?

You don't need to get so touchy. Nobody is calling you a thief. This reflexive "No, actually! Employees are worse because... that's what I personally experienced, so... we can literally ignore all the facts."

 

[Revoltingest]

Bigger than... the most common and prolific form of theft in America?

I'm highly skeptical that un-paid wages are
the biggest or most common theft in the country.
I'd expect shoplifting to be the most common crime.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm highly skeptical that un-paid wages
are the biggest theft in the country.

Unpaid wages is just one form of wage theft. I explained that earlier. Wage theft includes forcing people to work through contractually agreed breaks, unpaid overtime, tip stealing, pay deduction and off-the-clock violation.
Wage theft - Wikipedia
Wage Theft is a Much Bigger Problem Than Other Forms of Theft—But Workers Remain Mostly Unprotected
https://www.denver7.com/news/national-politics/the-race/wage-theft-is-the-costliest-crime-in-america

 

[Revoltingest]

Unpaid wages is just one form of wage theft. I explained that earlier. Wage theft includes forcing people to work through contractually agreed breaks, unpaid overtime, tip stealing, pay deduction and off-the-clock violation.
Wage theft - Wikipedia
Wage Theft is a Much Bigger Problem Than Other Forms of Theft—But Workers Remain Mostly Unprotected
https://www.denver7.com/news/national-politics/the-race/wage-theft-is-the-costliest-crime-in-america

I'm still skeptical because time theft
is largely unreported.
I'd expect robberies to be far less,
which don't include shoplifting (per
the one link I read).

But does it matter? All theft should
be treated as a crime...not just
whichever form you think is the worst.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm still skeptical because time theft
is largely unreported.

That's probably beause... it's not a crime? I mean, it's literally not a form of theft? Whereas, wage theft IS a crime and IS a form of theft.

I'd expect robberies to be far less,
which don't include shoplifting (per
the one link I read).

But does it matter? All theft should
be treated as a crime...not just
whichever form you think is the worst.

This is a weird take to have.

"This form of crime is the most prolific form of crime."
"BUT BUT BUT all crime is bad! We should treat ALL crime as crime because all crime bad! Why are we focusing just one what YOU think is the worst! I don't think it matters. I don't even think it's true. Whatever."

I mean, geez. You're acting like you have something hide.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's probably beause... it's not a crime? I mean, it's literally not a form of theft?

Were you an employer, you might think it is theft.

You're acting like you have something hide.

You sound like a cop.
I've much to hide.
It's called privacy.