i had enough of cruelty towards animals

[MSizer]

no its not we are animals wether we are sentiant or not doesnt matter, after all none of us have really been able to hammer down morals right, so what is cruel to you isnt creul to us etc. also there are alot fo benefits to eating meat, far more protein, therefore making us stronger etc, we also keep the animal population down, can you picture any other animal in the UK who will eat teh cows or pigs that now populate our planet?

Im sorry mate I just dont see your point, even if you ignore everything I have said we need to keep animal populations down, cows, sheep, pigs in the west have no natural preditors.

I would understand if you wanted it to be more humane, but come on see sense.

this isn't the tread to debate the topic, but you're wrong about each point you make. I have limited time online today, but if you wish to debate the matter (as you have clearly not thought it through) i will gladly inform you over the course of the next day or two.

The one thing I will say though you use the excuse that we haven't all hammered out our morals. So does that mean that if I haven't figured out yet that something is immoral, it's morally permissible by default? OK, well I'm undecided on the topic of murder, so I'll just go ahead and do it then, since I've hammered out whether it's immoral.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The reason it's best not to eat meat is because animals are our fellow living beings, and really their life is no more our's to take then another human being's is. I have never ever slaughtered an animal for meat in my life.

 

[tarasan]

this isn't the tread to debate the topic, but you're wrong about each point you make. I have limited time online today, but if you wish to debate the matter (as you have clearly not thought it through) i will gladly inform you over the course of the next day or two.

The one thing I will say though you use the excuse that we haven't all hammered out our morals. So does that mean that if I haven't figured out yet that something is immoral, it's morally permissible by default? OK, well I'm undecided on the topic of murder, so I'll just go ahead and do it then, since I've hammered out whether it's immoral.

Ok i take your point, and maybe I havnt thought it through but Im open to my mind being changed Msizer I will start the thread now! remeber msizer loves and hugs

 

[Rainbow Mage]

My dad tried to get me to shoot a doe when he forced me to go hunting with him, I told him no. I couldn't do it. It seemed wrong to me.

 

[Valjean]

Wild animals can, indeed, be brutal, but animals are not moral agents.

Domestic animals are a manufactured commodity. They are not suited to survival independent of humans. If demand decreases so will production. They will simply be discontinued.

 

[Panda]

*MOD POST*
Please remember this is NOT a debate thread. If you want to debate please start a new thread.
​

 

[*Anne*]

My brother-in-law is a hunter. One nephew hunts with him, the other doesn't like it at all.

Vegetarian/Vegan threads always seem to get a lot of traffic. It'll be interesting to see if this topic catches fire, or if forum members will think, "Oh Hell, I don't have the energy for this argument."

 

[Revoltingest]

Wild animals can, indeed, be brutal, but animals are not moral agents.

How is such a thing even knowable?
I'd speculate that big-brained critters such as apes & whales could have a sense of morality.

 

[Madhuri]

I think that is great .lava.
If only more people would take this stand!

 

[DeitySlayer]

How is such a thing even knowable?
I'd speculate that big-brained critters such as apes & whales could have a sense of morality.

Which is beside the point because they have no alternative food sources and do not have the technological capability to modify other food sources to their needs. They eat what they can, simple as.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which is beside the point because they have no alternative food sources and do not have the technological capability to modify other food sources to their needs. They eat what they can, simple as.

I was responding to a post, but consider chimpanzees. They eat
plants, insects & animals. They make choices....moral ones IMO.

 

[Valjean]

The chimps cannot appreciate the consequences of their actions, and I question weather they're capable of behaving otherwise.
True, ethologists have found that some animals have a sense of fairness and justice, but I still question weather this qualifies them as full moral agents.

 

[.lava]

The chimps cannot appreciate the consequences of their actions, and I question weather they're capable of behaving otherwise.
True, ethologists have found that some animals have a sense of fairness and justice, but I still question weather this qualifies them as full moral agents.

interesting. but don't you think animals only do what they do without making decisions? i mean, you need to have an ability to choose between and that makes one moral agent. because his choice would be either moral or immoral. that's not how it works with animals. so if a lion kill babies to mate with female lion, that's not immoral. can't be because that's what a lion would do

.

 

[LuisDantas]

Welcome to the fold, lava!

 

[Revoltingest]

....True, ethologists have found that some animals have a sense of fairness and justice, but I still question weather this qualifies them as full moral agents.

That was my point. I question it too.....& take no side in the matter.

 

[Valjean]

interesting. but don't you think animals only do what they do without making decisions? i mean, you need to have an ability to choose between and that makes one moral agent. because his choice would be either moral or immoral. that's not how it works with animals. so if a lion kill babies to mate with female lion, that's not immoral. can't be because that's what a lion would do

.

That's my point. One incapable of choice cannot be a moral agent. Choice is sine qua non.

 

[.lava]

That's my point. One incapable of choice cannot be a moral agent. Choice is sine qua non.

well, we agree then

PS: what does sine qua non mean?

.

 

[Valjean]

It's a Latin expression referring to an fundamental cause or necessary precondition, .lava

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Welcome to Animal Saviors

Don't watch if you're squeamish. And get as many people as you can to sign this.

Petitions look nice and all, but the real way to voice your concern is to vote with your dollars ( pounds, francs, euros, or whatever is used by you). I know of many people that would sign a petition against KFC and then grab a bucket of chicken there on the way home. If you are going to protest, stick to it wholeheartedly and live your beliefs. That being said, don't overlook our Animal DIR.