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I got the urge to go back to the occult

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I got the urge to go back to the occult.Please pray for me so I don't.:(

You mean I can pray and it will ultimately change your intended behavior?

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Salix,
Wonders how many others are within his control
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
An antichrist like yourself can't expect anything except to die and return to your native earth.

I think God knows who the anti-Christ is....why not let him do the judging?

May I ask which church or denomination you belong to? Or are you the pastor and only member of your own church? Just wondering since you seem to be so sure who the anti-Christ is.

"As you judge...."
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I think God knows who the anti-Christ is....why not let him do the judging?

May I ask which church or denomination you belong to? Or are you the pastor and only member of your own church? Just wondering since you seem to be so sure who the anti-Christ is.

"As you judge...."
It seems you are in disagreement with your own sect. You said that Jesus was not a son of Adam, yet your sect disagrees with you. So does the Scripture. To be a son of Adam means to have sinful flesh. And man, according to Paul, has only one kind of flesh. And to deny that Jesus had come in that same flesh is to be antichrist. According to John.
It's not me who judges you, but the Scripture.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I think God knows who the anti-Christ is....why not let him do the judging?

May I ask which church or denomination you belong to? Or are you the pastor and only member of your own church? Just wondering since you seem to be so sure who the anti-Christ is.

"As you judge...."
I first became interested in Christianity in my early 30's. I joined a Baptist Church and began studying the Scripture. I used to listen to R.C.Sproul, a late Presbyterian minister who had a radio program aired on my way home from work. He got me interested in reading, philosophy and logic. The study of philosophy and logic helped me immensely with my ability to reason. Not to mention my study in mathematics which also helped me a great deal with my ability to think.
I soon got frustrated because of all the sects who could not agree with each other. The only common denominator was the Scripture. They all claimed the same Scripture. So I decided I would learn the Scripture for myself rather than idolizing the "church fathers". It's the best and worst decision I ever made.
I don't belong to any sect because I can see the errors they make.
How can I see that?
I can only say that I have relied only on what the Scripture itself proves by comparing itself with itself.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Where did you leave it? Hopefully in a safe place.

Once in my bedroom, I felt an evil presence hovering over me. Frightened, I jumped out of my bed to escape it. As I reached for the door knob, to exit the room, my hand was unable to grasp it. Still frightened, I felt myself being pulled back towards the bed. :eek:

Suddenly I found myself in bed, looking up at the ceiling. I was unable to move, but I also saw myself in the hallway trying to turn the doorknob and escape. Weird being in two places at once.:confused:

After a minute, a second, a matter of time, I found myself fully lying in bed but unable to move. I had to fight to regain control of my body. First my head, I started to move it side to side. Then my arms, to get them to rise up from my sides. Finally my legs and I was able to sit up and wonder about what I had just experienced.o_O
True story?
Did something similar happen at other times?
Did you ever reach a conclusion on the cause?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It seems you are in disagreement with your own sect.

You said that Jesus was not a son of Adam, yet your sect disagrees with you. So does the Scripture. To be a son of Adam means to have sinful flesh. And man, according to Paul, has only one kind of flesh. And to deny that Jesus had come in that same flesh is to be antichrist. According to John.
It's not me who judges you, but the Scripture.

You misinterpret everything...no wonder you come up with such twisted ideas.

Jesus was not a son of Adam because the now sinful human race was unable to produce a perfect life to balance out the scales of God's perfect justice. Adam paid for his own sin with his own life, but he sold his children into slavery to sin and death through no fault on their part. (Romans 5:12)

Since God's law demanded equivalency, ("eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life") there was no sinless person to offer to God atonement for Adam's children. This is why Jesus came from heaven so that he would NOT be a son of Adam....but a 100% human "son of God." Do you know the difference? All born from Adam are sinners...Jesus was not a sinner and had no sin as his inheritance. He came through a sinful human mother, but his DNA was supplied by God. Jesus in his actions and faith was nothing like Adam.....he was tempted and refused to compromise his faith or his mission.

We do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh.....we deny that he was a sinful descendant of Adam. His flesh was the same as Adam's before sin entered into him and he merited the penalty of death. Jesus was a sinless life offered for a sinless life.....offered for the sinless life that Adam's children lost.

Do you understand the mechanics of the ransom?
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
You misinterpret everything...no wonder you come up with such twisted ideas.

Jesus was not a son of Adam because the now sinful human race was unable to produce a perfect life to balance out the scales of God's perfect justice. Adam paid for his own sin with his own life, but he sold his children into slavery to sin and death through no fault on their part. (Romans 5:12)

Since God's law demanded equivalency, ("eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life") there was no sinless person to offer to God atonement for Adam's children. This is why Jesus came from heaven so that he would NOT be a son of Adam....but a 100% human "son of God." Do you know the difference? All born from Adam are sinners...Jesus was not a sinner and had no sin as his inheritance. He came through a sinful human mother, but his DNA was supplied by God. Jesus in his actions and faith was nothing like Adam.....he was tempted and refused to compromise his faith or his mission.

We do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh.....we deny that he was a sinful descendant of Adam. His flesh was the same as Adam's before sin entered into him and he merited the penalty of death. Jesus was a sinless life offered for a sinless life.....offered for the sinless life that Adam's children lost.

Do you understand the mechanics of the ransom?
First of all, everyone is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his OWN lust/ desires (of the flesh).
And if Jesus was tempted in all points as we are then he had to have the same flesh as we. That's why Paul says that "Just as the children (of God) are flesh and blood, he too partook of the same flesh" Get it?

Eve DESIRED/LUSTED after the fruit because her flesh was sinful, PAL!
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
You misinterpret everything...no wonder you come up with such twisted ideas.

Jesus was not a son of Adam because the now sinful human race was unable to produce a perfect life to balance out the scales of God's perfect justice. Adam paid for his own sin with his own life, but he sold his children into slavery to sin and death through no fault on their part. (Romans 5:12)

Since God's law demanded equivalency, ("eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life") there was no sinless person to offer to God atonement for Adam's children. This is why Jesus came from heaven so that he would NOT be a son of Adam....but a 100% human "son of God." Do you know the difference? All born from Adam are sinners...Jesus was not a sinner and had no sin as his inheritance. He came through a sinful human mother, but his DNA was supplied by God. Jesus in his actions and faith was nothing like Adam.....he was tempted and refused to compromise his faith or his mission.

We do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh.....we deny that he was a sinful descendant of Adam. His flesh was the same as Adam's before sin entered into him and he merited the penalty of death. Jesus was a sinless life offered for a sinless life.....offered for the sinless life that Adam's children lost.

Do you understand the mechanics of the ransom?
I challenge you to a debate on this forum. Do you accept?
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, OP. There are many reasons why we explore other faiths/religions/beliefs, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything bad will come of it. Let yourself feel what you feel, but pray for what you would like to see happen on your path. Too often, people beat themselves up over passing thoughts that really never lead anywhere, they were just passing thoughts. :sunflower:
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I first became interested in Christianity in my early 30's. I joined a Baptist Church and began studying the Scripture. I used to listen to R.C.Sproul, a late Presbyterian minister who had a radio program aired on my way home from work. He got me interested in reading, philosophy and logic. The study of philosophy and logic helped me immensely with my ability to reason. Not to mention my study in mathematics which also helped me a great deal with my ability to think.

The Calvinism promoted by Sproul is not something I can agree with entirely. The Sovereignty of God is something JW's firmly embrace, but not predestination.

I soon got frustrated because of all the sects who could not agree with each other. The only common denominator was the Scripture. They all claimed the same Scripture. So I decided I would learn the Scripture for myself rather than idolizing the "church fathers". It's the best and worst decision I ever made.
I don't belong to any sect because I can see the errors they make.
How can I see that?
I can only say that I have relied only on what the Scripture itself proves by comparing itself with itself.

Thank you for sharing that. I was raised in the church system and came to the same conclusions as yourself.
I can't say I idolize the church fathers any more than you do......you seem to have a very distorted view of either scripture or us......maybe both. :shrug:

First of all, everyone is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his OWN lust/ desires (of the flesh).
And if Jesus was tempted in all points as we are then he had to have the same flesh as we. That's why Paul says that "Just as the children (of God) are flesh and blood, he too partook of the same flesh" Get it?

Wait a minute.....Jesus was 100% human and he was as sinless as Adam was when God created him...unless you think that God created man's flesh to be sinful? Just because he was flesh and blood doesn't make him sinful. Its our actions that make us sinful. Jesus committed no sin....ever.

Having free will, like all of God's intelligent creatures, means that he had choices.....angels and humans were not created to be robots, but to live and learn from their God. They were instructed to obey him, with dire consequences if they didn't. Satan was a perfect angel once, but he too succumbed to temptations, but internal ones. Jesus was a free willed son of God too and he was tempted with the same things that had undone satan. Each one was an appeal to self interest.....but it didn't work. Jesus' resolute and obedient stand demonstrated that Adam could have acted differently in the beginning, because he too was sinless at first.

Eve DESIRED/LUSTED after the fruit because her flesh was sinful, PAL!

All of God's creatures are created with desires...both conscious and unconscious ones. Just because Eve succumbed to temptation doesn't mean that she had no desires...these are natural.....what isn't natural is to break God's laws to fulfill your desires.....you don't have to be sinful to have desires.....what gave you that idea?

And BTW....I am not your PAL. :D I could in all probability be your grandmother though. :p

I challenge you to a debate on this forum. Do you accept?

Not on this forum? It is not really for debates.

But if you wish to enter into a civil discussion on an appropriate forum, I will participate....as long as you don't turn it into a slanging match. I have no desire to fight with you.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The Calvinism promoted by Sproul is not something I can agree with entirely. The Sovereignty of God is something JW's firmly embrace, but not predestination.

I don't agree at all with Calvinism. I was in the early stages of learning when I was influenced by Sproul. Calvinism teaches that one can be fooled into thinking himself one of the elect.



Thank you for sharing that. I was raised in the church system and came to the same conclusions as yourself.
I can't say I idolize the church fathers any more than you do......you seem to have a very distorted view of either scripture or us......maybe both. :shrug:

Well, it certainly couldn't be you who has the distorted view, now could it?



Wait a minute.....Jesus was 100% human and he was as sinless as Adam was when God created him...unless you think that God created man's flesh to be sinful? Just because he was flesh and blood doesn't make him sinful. Its our actions that make us sinful. Jesus committed no sin....ever.
Obviously you don't understand what makes the flesh to be sinful. It's the Law that does it. It's not the flesh itself, because where there is no law there is no sin. When God introduces law, then the flesh becomes sinful. For example, Paul says that he had not known lust except that the law says "Thou shall not covet".
Now, if we look back to Eve, the Scripture says that she desired the forbidden (by law) fruit. The word used for "desired" in her case is the word meaning "covet". Eve coveted the forbidden fruit. So, according to Paul, lust of the flesh is known by the law which says thou shall not covet.
This is probably to meaty for you even though it's milk.

Having free will, like all of God's intelligent creatures, means that he had choices.....angels and humans were not created to be robots, but to live and learn from their God. They were instructed to obey him, with dire consequences if they didn't. Satan was a perfect angel once, but he too succumbed to temptations, but internal ones. Jesus was a free willed son of God too and he was tempted with the same things that had undone satan. Each one was an appeal to self interest.....but it didn't work. Jesus' resolute and obedient stand demonstrated that Adam could have acted differently in the beginning, because he too was sinless at first.

If you ever learn to speak as the Scripture does maybe we could get somewhere. The Scripture does not talk about "free will" it talks about sin.
So, we might ask how sin has come into the world. That would be a good place to start if you want to learn the truth.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
My post explains that.

It explains nothing. Being born again is not a way to gain superiority over others, it is what Jesus taught. You may not like it. That doesn't change that it is what is taught in the Bible.

So, no, you gave no explanation. You simple revealed your hatred for the born-again doctrine.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
True story?
Did something similar happen at other times?
Did you ever reach a conclusion on the cause?

Yes it was true.

No real conclusion. I thought at time there might be something to out of body experiences. Similar experiences have happen, none as dramatic.

Now I am more skeptical of the reality of "astral travel" but I can understand why someone might believe having had such an experience.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
Sure, I just found the experience interesting. The experience of "leaving the body" can feel very real.
Yeah, I agree. Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I thought you were thinking that your experience actually involved evil beings from the unknown type of thing. I'm glad you are not scared and understand your scary experiences are physiological and not real evil beings. Some do believe that.
 
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