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I get vaccine hesitancy, but...

Suave

Simulated character
Yes according to you 20-24 yr old is identical to 18-49 yr old, get real, 49yr olds have a much higher percentage of dying from almost anything than 20-24 yr olds

My bad for not promptly finding influenza death rates for ages 15 to 24. I now have data for that particular age group showing persons ages 15 to 24 do in fact have a nearly 4 times greater chance of dying from Influenza than from C.O.V.I.D.-19.

Okay....I now have data comparing the death rate of C.O.V.I.D.-19 and Influenza for the age group 15 to 24, which still supports my claim that young adults do indeed have a much greater chance of dying from influenza than from C.O.V.I.D.-19.

My dear RF comrade, if you find data suggesting otherwise than what I have hereby claimed, then do please share. Thank you!

Reference: The age distribution of mortality due to influenza: pandemic and peri-pandemic | BMC Medicine | Full Text

(Edit) **Please reference below link, and disregard previous link.

Comparing the Risk of Death from COVID-19 vs. Influenza by Age

(Edit) **Thank you. I stand corrected.**

(Edited) **This article I have read does not provide an infection fatality rate comparison between the common flu and C.O.V.I.D.-19 for persons age 15 to 24.**
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.
I'm willing to let all the wacky stuff about "vaccine shedding" slide, because it's actually getting some of these COVID denialists to mask up and physically distance.

If this was a ploy, it's freakin' brilliant.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Suave, Oh brother, that data is for an especially virulent form of flu called a pandemic flu like the one in 1918, you're comparing data from differing sources that don't collect the data the same way, you need to take a statistics course and stop misusing data.
 

Suave

Simulated character
Suave, Oh brother, that data is for an especially virulent form of flu called a pandemic flu like the one in 1918, you're comparing data from differing sources that don't collect the data the same way, you need to take a statistics course and stop misusing data.

Oh...really? I suspected that data came from recent flu seasons. The 1918 flu pandemic was nasty. An ancestor of mine from Kansas was one of the earliest known cases, he fortunately survived, but others around him died by contracting this virus. I contracted the SARS-Cov 2 about a year ago, I didn't get sick by this, but my then wife had gotten pretty sick by catching this virus from me.
 
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Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Oh...really? I suspected that data came from recent flu seasons. The 1918 flu pandemic was nasty. An ancestor of mine from Kansas was one of the earliest known cases, he fortunately survived, but others around him died by contracting this virus. I contracted the SARS-Cov 2 about a year ago, I didn't get sick by this, but my then wife had gotten pretty sick by catching this virus from me.
You didn't read the article then?
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.
Fear perhaps. A loss of control within the world around them. I am curious about this myself.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.
I was shocked to hear on NPR that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. released a fake documentary film to discourage African-American from getting vaccinated. What is up with that? It quite disheartened me.

As an aside, my wife, daughter and I enjoyed outdoor music at a hard cider brewery on this lovely Saturday afternoon without masks. Life is starting to return to normal.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.

the-covid-vaccine-turned-me-into-a-newt-i-got-better.jpg
 

Suave

Simulated character
You're reading comprehension seems to be severely limited, that survey says `15-24 yr olds are 4 times as likely to die from Covid, only children under 10 are less likely to die of covid than flu

My bad..I did originally misunderstand the article. I have reread the article, this article does not provide an infection fatality rate comparison between the flu and C.O.V.I.D-19. Since more people last year were infected by C.O.V.I.D.-19 than by the flu, a fair comparison of the infection fatality rate can not be determined. We would need to know the number of infections and deaths by influenza last year among persons ages 15 to 24 in order to determine its infection fatality rate in comparison to C.O.V.I.D.-19's estimated 0.006 percent infection fatality rate among persons ages 15 to 24. I can only tell you the information I have for the influenza's infection fatality rate being (edit) **0.0018** percent among persons ages 18 to 49, which of course, you have rightfully objected to as possibly skewing the numbers higher than what the influenza infection fatality rate might actually be for young adults ages 15 to 24.

**Edited influenza infection fatality rate from 0.018 percent to 0.0018 percent**, the original influenza infection fatality rate I reported for age group 18 to 49 was errantly overstated by a factor of 10.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
It's not crazy to hesitate on a vaccine that's still experimental. It may be approved, but it's far from being fully tested out for side effects and such.
Millions of brave people have been vaccinated with very few problems being reported. This includes many elderly with health problems. Yet you have doubts?

The people I think are loopy crazy here are the ones trying to push it on those unsure of the side effects thinking its going to be no problem.
You'd have a point if you were an expert and did reviews on problems people were having, and there were tens of thousands of serious and dramatic problems. But as it is the vaccines have been incredibly successful and reliable and safe.

I say give people time and respect the decisions they make weither they want to vaccinate or not.
The dilemma is the many who will die as a result by continuing to get infected and spreading to others. Would you agree that the unvaccinated quarantine themselves at hime and limit time in stores, and should be banned from social gathering places until they are confident in the vaccines? That's the alternative as the vaccinated can get back to normal lives.

BTW.. speaking of free drinks, there's a program in NY offering just that. A jab and a drink on the house afterwards.
Whatever it takes for a person to find courage.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
My bad..I did originally misunderstand the article. I have reread the article, this article does not provide an infection fatality rate comparison between the flu and C.O.V.I.D-19. Since more people last year were infected by C.O.V.I.D.-19 than by the flu, a fair comparison of the infection fatality rate can not be determined. We would need to know the number of infections and deaths by influenza last year among persons ages 15 to 24 in order to determine its infection fatality rate in comparison to C.O.V.I.D.-19's estimated 0.006 percent infection fatality rate among persons ages 15 to 24. I can only tell you the information I have for the influenza's infection fatality rate being 0.018 percent among persons ages 18 to 49, which of course, you have rightfully objected to as possibly skewing the numbers higher than what the influenza infection fatality rate might actually be for young adults ages 15 to 24.

The last article took the flu death rates from normal years before covid, so yes the Covid is quite a bit more likely to kill you than the flu if you're 15-24 and any age older than that too.
 

Suave

Simulated character
The last article took the flu death rates from normal years before covid, so yes the Covid is quite a bit more likely to kill you than the flu if you're 15-24 and any age older than that too.
Please, if you find the infection fatality rate for the flu by age among persons between the ages of15-24, do please let us know. If it is lower than C.O.V.I.D.'s 0.006 percent I.F.R. among the age group 15 to 24, then C.O.V.I.D. would be more fatal for the population age group 15 to 24, if the flu has a higher than 0.006 percent I.F.R. among persons between the ages of 15 to 24, then the flu would be deadlier for the population age group of15 to 24.

(Edit) ** The flu's I.F.R. is reportedly 0.0018 percent among the age group 18 to 49, this being lower than C.O.V.I.D.-19's I.F.R. of 0.0030 percent among the age group 15 to 19, and 0.0060 percent among the age group 20 to 24. **
 
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Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.

possibly politics gone crazy?

or religion gone crazy?

or just plain people gone crazy?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Please, if you find the infection fatality rate for the flu by age among persons between the ages of15-24, do please let us know. If it is lower than C.O.V.I.D.'s 0.006 percent I.F.R. among the age group 15 to 24, then C.O.V.I.D. would be more fatal for the population age group 15 to 24, if the flu has a higher than 0.006 percent I.F.R. among persons between the ages of 15 to 24, then the flu would be deadlier for the population age group of15 to 24.

Just read the last article you linked to, it contradicts everything you are saying
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.

Give Coronavirus time.
It cannot read expensive signs.
Where I live 1 in 10 adults have taken the vaccinations.
The Delta 'Indian' mutation is speeding through our land, and we are red listed around the World.
But our hospital receptions are quite low, as is our daily death count.

Guess what?.... the folks who are Un-vaxed are mostly the ones getting hospitalised.

Give Covid a chance......... the un-vaxed will be queueing up soon.
Give Coronavirus time.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
..... a vaccine that's still experimental. It may be approved, but it's far from being fully tested out for side effects and such.
It is not "EXPERIMENTAL"; the vaccine is a variant on the already tried and tested flu vaccine.

Also if you catch COVID - side affect can = death
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Funny, when we conscript -- or accept the voluntary -- soldiers that we're going to send off to war (for the "good of the nation" after all) we accept that there may be side-effects. For example, soldiers who come under fire tend to break out in little holes, and those that encounter bombs and IEDs sometimes tend to shed limbs and life.

Have you ever noticed that we have celebrations for them -- things like Memorial Day in the US or Remembrance day in Canada and the UK?

This is a war on a virus. Do none of those precepts apply?


And historically, in wartime, societies have applied intolerable pressures on young men who did not want to go to war. Considerable courage and conviction has generally been required on the part of those who refused to fight.

It's only in the the last 100 years (the world is much, much, older than that), that we've even recognised the concept of conscientious objection.

I come from a country that still, imo, has a deeply unhealthy and dishonest relationship with it's own history of military misadventures. So forgive me if I have even less interest in joining your war on the virus, than I have in joining your war on terror (are we still fighting that one?).

I have been vaccinated. So has my partner, though in her case with significant reluctance. These were our free and partially informed choices. I see no reason not to respect those who make other choices - though fortunately nutters driving vans covered in slogans are a rarity where I live; if I did, that might have a bearing on my tolerance levels.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I guess it wasn't deleted, when I hit the back arrow and held the left click down it was still there.

From the note was this chart.

Is there anyone here good with math that can figure it out?

aMqtwce.jpeg

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ariants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing.pdf
This is one table from a very long and highly technical document that I have not the patience to read through. I think one would need to be an epidemiologist following all this to be sure of knowing what these data points signify. What seems to be the case, at first glance, is that hospital visits (i.e. serious disease) are a lot more common among those who have not been vaccinated. The number of deaths does not seem to correlate so strongly with vaccination status, but the numbers are small and one does not know what confounding factors there may be.

Regarding the UK more generally there is nothing "spooky" going on. The Delta variant is growing because it has been imported from India into S Asian communities with lower than average vaccine take-up rates and in which multi-generation households are common, making transmission to vulnerable elderly people more likely. Since it is 60% more infectious than the Alpha (Kent) variant we had before, it can still grow when conditions are such that the Kent one is fading.

We need more time to get the vaccination rate up in these communities and to get more 2nd doses into people generally. I expect the last stage of relaxation of Covid restrictions will be delayed by a month. The announcement is due tomorrow.
 
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