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I get vaccine hesitancy, but...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    So, here I am, for the first time in months, sitting enjoying a few pints on the patio of my favourite pub, and....

    What drives by but a van with fairly expensively done signs saying such things as "Avoid the Vaccinated" and "Vax from Hell."

    I honestly do not understand -- not in the slightest -- what drives people to such extremes of fear and loathing for something we've been living with (and let me stress that "living" rather than "dying") since (believe it or not) the Chinese began using techniques similar to Jenner's use of cowpox from the year 1000 and onwards, and this was practiced in Africa and Turkey before it spread to Europe. Even then, Jenner's vaccine dates from 1796 which is 324 years ago! And it has been working absolute wonders for us ever since!

    What is making people so loopy-crazy? I seriously do not get it.
     
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  2. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    It seems to be tribal symbolism; a tribal marker.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's not crazy to hesitate on a vaccine that's still experimental. It may be approved, but it's far from being fully tested out for side effects and such.

    The people I think are loopy crazy here are the ones trying to push it on those unsure of the side effects thinking its going to be no problem.

    I say give people time and respect the decisions they make weither they want to vaccinate or not.

    BTW.. speaking of free drinks, there's a program in NY offering just that. A jab and a drink on the house afterwards.
     
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  4. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    My question was about those who are ACTIVELY trying to dissuade and frighten people about the vaccine.

    But in answer to your comment, do you suppose that none of us actually has any obligation to our communities? Don't help, don't cooperate, don't obey, don't get along -- if it doesn't suit your pleasure? I would not want to live in that world.
     
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  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Seriously?

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    You can be hesitant and still think of others at the same time. Some people jump when they see immediate danger (say life threatening surgery) but are hesitant when they are told they have options and they can think about it.

    If someone has a loved one whose at high risk or has COVID would feel because of their experience and immediate concern, "it is wise" for them to be vaccinated. While others who are not to that extreme circumstance would not jump so quickly.

    People who are hesitant to take the vaccine are not "not, not cooperating." It's alright to not understand why people make the decisions that they do, just be mindful someone in France would have a different perspective than in (I don't know) US Idaho. Someone in the mountains would have a different perspective than someone in a heavy city of New York.

    So, vaccine hesitancy isn't a problem. The problem is trying to convince people against their will and when you push to hard, people will jump back.

    Whether you guys know it or not the unvaccinated are the minority.
     
  6. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I was hesitant when the vaccines first got the emergency authorization for that reason. But now we've had north of 100 MILLION people who have been vaccinated in the US alone.

    And we've seen the dramatic decrease in people getting sick in countries that are further along in vaccination compared to countries which are further behind.

    So we know the vaccines work. And with very much north of 100 million people who have had the jab, we have learned that some have various side-effects which is many many more than would have been vaccinated before formal approval in the past.

    So we're well past discovering side-effects.

    Thus the only thing left is formal approval by the government. I have to ask why formal approval is really needed at this point. We have the example of the alzheimer's drug that was approved with scant evidence that it is truly effective. So of what value is a formal government approval?
     
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  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    It's a risk-benefit thing.
    You're more likely to be infected and harmed by Covid, than you are from the vaccine. In fact, from the numbers, you're more likely to be harmed in a traffic accident en route to the clinic than by the vaccine.
    Yes, it's a new vaccine, but its mechanism of action of not of the sort that's likely to have untoward effects down the road.

    People die -- every year -- from aspirin, penicillin and bee stings. Why don't I hear the same grave warnings about these, with their much higher morbidity and mortality rates?
     
    #7 Valjean, Jun 12, 2021
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  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    People see through their own lens. Make their own distinctions. Those who remain defensive and skeptical probably have a good reason for being that way and are attempting to warn others about the potential dangers of a vaccine. I know for a fact that there are those who had horrible reactions and side effects already In my area alone. There are also those who had no problems nor issues as well so it's an individual assessment on vaccine risk vs benefit.


    That's why I maintain this is something that must start with oneself.

    As far as community obligations go, there are people who won't care, nor give a hoot one way or another because others are essentially anonymous strangers they don't know or care to know for both legitimate and unwarranted reasons.

    Personalities vary and some are just not going to be wired the same as others are.

    Everyone I think sees this occur in the world all the time, and acknowledging it is just a fact of life can go a long way in settling ones personal vice over the issue of what other people do or don't do.

    I say the best course is to take care of yourself first and respect the decisions that others make for themselves.
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Well maybe it's what is needed. Complete full approval by the FDA.
     
  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Funny, when we conscript -- or accept the voluntary -- soldiers that we're going to send off to war (for the "good of the nation" after all) we accept that there may be side-effects. For example, soldiers who come under fire tend to break out in little holes, and those that encounter bombs and IEDs sometimes tend to shed limbs and life.

    Have you ever noticed that we have celebrations for them -- things like Memorial Day in the US or Remembrance day in Canada and the UK?

    This is a war on a virus. Do none of those precepts apply?
     
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  11. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    I am glad to be safely C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccinated along with two thirds of the U .S. adult population now being safely C.O.V.I.D-19 vaccinated. However, I do realize there is an elevated risk of heart inflammation to mRNA C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccinated young adult men who may be risking a 1 in 10,000 chance of getting heart inflammation by an mRNA C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccine in exchange for near certain immunity against a disease that to these young adults is far less lethal than influenza. With this dangerous side effect risk, I don't blame young adults for not getting vaccinated.
     
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  12. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I guess that's a fundamental difference. I don't need a government agency to give me a final stamp of approval on my decisions. To me it's a "nice to have" but not required.

    I judge much more from what people who have scientific expertise have to say along with my paying attention to the actual science so I can see if what I'm being told is in alignment with what is being reported. I've done that with my doctors from time-to-time.

    That extends far beyond final approval of a vaccine. For example, I saw a dramatic effect when our former dog got acupuncture. There was no placebo effect nor confirmation bias possible with the dog. Other people remarked on it as well without knowing that she had been treated.

    But everyone is different.
     
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  13. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    There's a fair question. What's the statistical risk of having a side-effect? What's the risk of it being serious? Compare that to the risk of getting the disease, having a serious outcome and including infecting loved ones who might have a real medical contraindication..
     
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  14. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I think I know. There is a mixture of different kinds of people, and some of the people enjoy confusing others. I mean they actually enjoy confusing others. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone. I'm saying that sprinkled in with everyone, some people are always going to enjoy this. Some of them will grab conspiracy theories and fan the flame, just for chaos sake.

    ***edit*** ... or to watch reactions and study people. There could be more than one reason, but my point is some people thrive on chaos.
     
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  16. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    I consider this to be a poor analogy regarding the risk incurred by the young combat soldier who I am guessing has a far greater chance of dying in combat than he would by a disease that to him is many times less lethal than influenza.
     
  17. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    There's a lot out there to read on it.

    And the story is still unfolding now.

    I keep thinking we'll know more in a couple weeks.

    These Covid vaccines are not the same as the sterilizing vaccines we were familiar with in our youth.

    At a Scarborough gas station, I saw an old motor home with an electronic computer display mounted to the roof saying: "DON'T TAKE THE VACCINE. IT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST." and then visit www. com something or other. And then some guy got back in his car and screeched his tires out of the place. It was a bit on the stressful side.

    I almost posted a note on the other thread today. I let it sit for a bit and then deleted it. It was not a good note. But there's not enough data in the sample. Something spooky over there in the UK. I might do it tomorrow. We should know more in a couple of weeks.

    I didn't get vaccinated yet.

    I don't give medical advice, even to my in person friends.

    At this point in my read, I have no plans to seek out vaccination.
     
  18. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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  19. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    #19 Suave, Jun 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  20. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Yes according to you 20-24 yr old is identical to 18-49 yr old, get real, 49yr olds have a much higher percentage of dying from almost anything than 20-24 yr olds
     
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