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I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Obviously I’m speaking about the beliefs of the Abrahamic Religions.
Buddhist’s or not I can question things.
I hear you and am sympathetic. Ok....the beliefs of. Belief is ephemeral, shifty, a tool. It is a tool, but it can make things happen. It can create. It can create a new age for example, but please allow me to try again at answering your question.
Let’s imagine I created a Robot, armed it and sent it into town to Kill as many people as possible.
Am I not Guilty, should I stand accused.

God created Satan, yet everyone points the finger at Satans deeds, Satan is doing what God created him to do.

So God is the creator of Evil but gets a free pass, why?
So why did God create Satan? The problem of anger which leads to violence is a problem of central interest in all of the Pentateuch books from Genesis through to Deuteronomy. This is the 'Satan' actually, although the Hebrew term satan can refer to individuals. It carries the connotation of destructive anger. A person or a group can be a satan, meaning it is some kind of destructive enemy. I suppose you'd have to read the Hebrew language to know what are the limits to which the term could be employed.

In Christian scriptures when people get angry one way to describe it is to say that "Satan entered" them. This usage probably comes from Genesis 4:7 which says sin is crouching at Cain's door. This causes Cain to kill his own brother. Cain is not condemned for killing his brother, but rather he is exiled probably on the argument that he was out of his mind or lost control of his temper. Nevertheless many groups take this in a different sense, viewing Satan as a spirit being with the power to occasionally possess people, tempt them. Satan possesses Cain, causing him to become the first murderer.

Technically Satan preexists creation and is a problem that creation is supposed to resolve, however that is an abstract discussion and is not part of a surface reading of the story of Genesis.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
One chapter he is loving and forgiving, in another he is a jealous and merciless God.

According to the Bible, Jesus was well aware of God being a sadistic psychopathic murderer because he said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28; NIV). Of course, if anyone knows how cruel the Christian God is, it would be his son. The vivid way Jesus depicted God, that doesn't sound like a loving, just, and merciful God to me. On the contrary, that sounds like a cruel, sadistic, psychopathic murderer.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
So we are forced to worship.
God gives us free will then creates Satan to test us, this forces people to follow God out of fear.
To create fear which punished us for exercising our God given free will is disgusting.
If I have to terrorise my children to make them love me then I am not a worthy Father to my children.

Yeah, it's a pretty disturbing relationship. This is why I don't like reading Christian mythology literally. Figuratively, there's a lot of good stuff even if only from a literary perspective. As someone who enjoys mysticism, I get a lot of inspiration from it. But only as metaphor.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Let's say your human first born an innocent. Taught don't be indoctrinated by rich men they all lie.

Past history teaches you.

Rich men king's with science technology killed off nearly all life.

Then rich man poor king said now I've learnt I'll save you.

Same old same old rich man false claim.

As the church healers proved.

We're rich we'll keep you all safe. We know. Trust us.

Not likely. Same promise failed twice before. Seems like you're going for third strike all out now.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
So why punish people for exercising their free will and not following.
If your threatened with Hell, that is absolutely using fear to reign you in.
It's still free will.
I'm free to ignore warnings and jump into deep water even if I can't swim.
Actions having consequences does not negate free will.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I think it's highly unlikely that you'll ever find a devout Christian who will openly admit that their "loving and merciful" God creates evil, despite Isaiah 45:7 unequivocally stating so. On the contrary, you're more likely to see some very impressive mental gymnastics used to try to explain away the word "evil" in order to intentionally alter its meaning in the verse. I've never met a Christian who admitted it.

No we just offer the true meaning of Isa 45:7 and many refuse to accept it. IOWs Isa 45:7 is not an unequivocal statement that God creates evil, as varying translations show.

"The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

Jonah 3:10 "When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, he relented on the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it."

Jeremiah 26:3 "Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds."

God remains the same and does not change His mind when nothing happens to cause Him to come to a different conclusion. When people repent God is always open to a change in what He was going to do before they repented. The change of mind/heart is based on good reason and is not because God flip flops from one thing to another for no reason (capricious).

As a former Christian, I don't think that anyone should look to the Bible to learn about morality. In my opinion, the following Bible stories aren't exemplary examples of upright moral behavior: forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist; smashing infants' heads against rocks; ordering the death of witches; God commanding his "chosen people" to kill an entire populace of foreign nations for their land in a conquest to possess a "promised land"; or God being irrationally angry and committing global genocide by killing every living creature and eradicating the entire human race (aside from Noah and his family) in a worldwide flood. Is that a loving God?

1 Samuel 15:3
states that God commanded the Israelites to attack and not spare the Amalekites (killing every man, woman, child, newborn, and animal and destroying everything that belonged to them). And Psalm 137:9 states, "Happy is the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rocks." So much for the biblical commandment of "Thou shalt not kill." In my opinion, the God of the Bible has a sadistic mentality of "Do as I say, not as I do," making him the most hypocritical (detestable and barbarous) figure known to mankind. And this article, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits," has several other instances of severe violence in the Bible.

What God has ordered as judge of the earth is not the same as moral guidance that we should follow.
With the incidents you cite I find it better to look for reasons that God ordered these things and in that day and age and I certainly don't think that God was teaching people to smash babies heads on rocks as I'm sure you also don't think God was teaching as a moral precept. It is amazing how far people can turn against the God of the Bible when they leave the Church, and leave reasoning about the Bible behind and decide that we should judge God as if He is a human being.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
I am placed on the ground with numerous paths to choose from.
I exercise my God given free will and choose a path of my liking.
God the punishes me for not taking his path.
Not exactly free will is it.

I don’t see it as you do.

For instance, here, you are choosing how you view things. You are choosing to link certain things and not others; hence, you see certain patterns (and not others), you draw certain conclusions (and not others) and you act and live your life according to how you choose to see things.

I do the same but I choose differently.

We are not a higher power’s puppets.
We all get to choose what to pick out from all that there is to detect and thereby see and live (in the same world) in completely different ways.

In this sense; life becomes the experience of a chosen attitude.

Humbly,
Hermit
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
I see claims but no evidence.

If I designed a bunch of stuff that didn't work as intended, would you say I'm a good designer, or a bad one?
Oh, and let's imagine I messed up my design so badly that I had to completely destroy it and start all over again. Am I a good designer, or a not-so-good designer?

What’s your take on a perfectly designed algorithm, doing exactly what it was designed to do: learn, adapt and function accordingly?

Is its design even a question about ethics or does ethics only come into the equation once we experience the effects that algorithm has had on the bigger picture of things? It’s impact on what we think of others, what we care about, how we vote… that’s where ethics may enter; not before, right?

Ps. Algorithm here is meant as a parable, obviously.

Humbly,
Hermit
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Let’s imagine I created a Robot, armed it and sent it into town to Kill as many people as possible.
Am I not Guilty, should I stand accused.

God created Satan, yet everyone points the finger at Satans deeds, Satan is doing what God created him to do.

So God is the creator of Evil but gets a free pass, why?

There is no Biblical reason to think God ordered Satan to do evil things.

But, if God creates evil, I think it should be thought what it actually means. Evil is actually nothing, it is like emptiness or darkness, lack of good. When God creates evil, it can mean he creates free people who can choose to reject good and become evil. It does not mean God makes them do evil things, only that God gives the opportunity to reject Him.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Let’s imagine I created a Robot, armed it and sent it into town to Kill as many people as possible.
Am I not Guilty, should I stand accused.

God created Satan, yet everyone points the finger at Satans deeds, Satan is doing what God created him to do.

So God is the creator of Evil but gets a free pass, why?
I don't believe there is such person as Satan. But there are indeed evil beings (both human and non-human) in this universe. And these evil beings were created by the gods. But the gods are not responsible for their misdeeds because they were given free-will. The gods do protect you from the misdeeds of these evil beings when your karma allows such protection.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Men said confessed I conned humanity.

Told us they did.

Con scious.
Con...science.

These men said I'll pretend God created biology.

Yet in fact I'm not theorising for life's biology to exist. Con...tinuance.

I'm theorising for a new huge energy mass reaction. Future reaction.

As one he says isn't my life it's only god. Not anything else at all.

I name it god.

After my female body a human a real life mother and woman's womb owner life continuance was attacked hurt. I heard fathers voice tell you we need human females as men.

Pretty basic it's because you theoried against life existing. You said mother was Jesus's owner. Said mother a human.

You didn't say a God. As men don't believe any mother was a God. Men are he says...as.. I own. Greedy men the destroyer.

As not only do they claim I own all things on earth. He says he owns the power of the earth. Man virtually says why I'm a God. As if yes I'm body owner.

All in his known sick mind. A theists human history back in time is to greedy rich men. Who don't thesis two humans had sex I'm born and why I exist. Don't theory about life.

Claiming as a human background its radiation position one and not life.

In legal life is position one.

So science says I claim god is energy in mass.

Yet all one types are in my way. As one isn't gods power one is sealed coldest.

So he does minus one on the other side of a fake zero...so zero isn't really there. He infers it falsely.

The big con he's still using a subject not science about life...when all he wants is a huge reaction every one removed.

And yes told you so.

It's why living humans are conned as they live. The con isn't anywhere else.

He wants minus one means no highest sealed God. Anywhere.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Well, there are people that commit genocide in the name of God. Personally, I do sometimes fear the god in other peoples minds.

There are a lot of atrocities committed in the name of god. People need their beliefs as an excuse.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes, and they need Satan as a scapegoat for all the killing in the name of God.

However, when you do a little research of the bible

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Excluding plagues and the flood

And those 10 were at gods command
 
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