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I find this very interesting

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
God has created in man the power of reason, whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to imitate blindly his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept. He must not be an imitator or blind follower of any soul. He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently, arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality.Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace.

To me, this does not take away the truth in any religious teaching, but give an clear understanding that one can see the world and teaching within each other, by close study it.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept.
Flawed reasoning is near universal and often deleterious. "that which he finds real and true" covers all manner of malignant ideas.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Why is THAT a problem for you?
Because if it is purely whatever that one person sees as being correct and true (rather than having to compare their newfound belief to reality), then they might conclude that they won an election and everyone else is lying. Or that colored people are inferior to whites. Or that their own feelings or desires outweigh the dreams or even the lives of the pitiful pawns around them. Etc….etc….etc….
It’s a bit of a stretch from @Jayhawker Soule to make. But all sorts of evil despots and serial killers throughout history really and fully believe that they were acting with full knowledge of the truth, and that their actions were either “of benefit to all mankind”, or at least were doing nothing that any reasonable mind would get upset about. :shrug:

But I would say your OP quote is good overall, and defended from psychopaths like I exemplified above, by the phrase “he is to investigate and discover the truth,…”, the most important word being “investigate”. And I would remove from Abdu’l-Baha's quote, the word “independently” from the last sentence. One of us cannot learn or know everything, therefore we must rely upon one another (and our future generations) to discover all the secrets that the universe holds. ;)

In this lifetime, we must recognize that we don’t know everything, and that we must keep asking questions.
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
God has created in man the power of reason, whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to imitate blindly his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept. He must not be an imitator or blind follower of any soul. He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently, arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality.Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace.

To me, this does not take away the truth in any religious teaching, but give an clear understanding that one can see the world and teaching within each other, by close study it.

I think that over time we tend to collect truths and toss out errors. It’s not 100% accurate, but it works pretty well.

A thought from Alma.

Alma 29:8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true.

So a given group might not have all the information at a given time, but this does not mean that the truths they do have are invalid, just incomplete.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
To me it means through investigation on the spiritual path, one find the truth also in the physical world.
Why are you thinking a spiritual path isn't part of the physical world? Could this assumption be part of your ongoing confusion that you post about quite often?

It may mean something totally different to you, and that is ok to.
The thing about truth is that it applies to all. If an idea is not factual and can't be determined to be true by rational minds, then the idea might not be true, nor believable.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Why are you thinking a spiritual path isn't part of the physical world? Could this assumption be part of your ongoing confusion that you post about quite often?


The thing about truth is that it applies to all. If an idea is not factual and can't be determined to be true by rational minds, then the idea might not be true, nor believable.
I hold no confusion on that. Maybe the issue are you being the one who are confused?

I happen to find the qoute both interesting and true. Feel free to hold a different P.O.V than me.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
To me it means through investigation on the spiritual path, one find the truth also in the physical world.

It may mean something totally different to you, and that is ok to.
But truth in the physical world can be tested, so if "spiritual truth" correlates with truth in the physical world, then "spiritual truth" can also be tested... and potentially found to be objectively wrong.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I hold no confusion on that. Maybe the issue are you being the one who are confused?
Between the two of us only you have a record of posting how your religious path has been difficult for you, and with you often struggling to figure things out. I feel and experience none of that sort of mental drama. So your statement here is inaccurate. Even as you start these discussions you avoid other people as they ask you hard questions. That doesn’t suggest a person with clarity and confidence.

I happen to find the qoute both interesting and true. Feel free to hold a different P.O.V than me.
I am free from the burden of religious assumptions and that helps me find truth.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
They might not be. That's just one potential outcome.

My point is that if you're right, spiritual beliefs could be tested so that we could objectively say which ones are right and which ones are wrong.
Exactly. Truth conforms to facts and what our rational mind can verify. Religious claims fall outside this most of the time.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
They might not be. That's just one potential outcome.

My point is that if you're right, spiritual beliefs could be tested so that we could objectively say which ones are right and which ones are wrong.
Spiritual belief is based on faith in the teaching and in God. But as humans we live in the physical world and would benefit from understand it together with the spiritual understandinng.

To understand both spiritual and physical world one would benefit from study them both. ( IMHO)
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
They might not be. That's just one potential outcome.

My point is that if you're right, spiritual beliefs could be tested so that we could objectively say which ones are right and which ones are wrong.

It sounds good in theory, but I feel not everything can be tested in a scientific way. People's feelings for example. If one looks at everything in life like a scientist or an engineer, in my opinion, they're missing out.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Spiritual belief is based on faith in the teaching and in God. But as humans we live in the physical world and would benefit from understand it together with the spiritual understandinng.

To understand both spiritual and physical world one would benefit from study them both. ( IMHO)
But do you see my point?

If studying the "spiritual world" will tell you things about the physical world, you can go and check whether the things you learned about the physical world this way are actually correct.
 
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