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I feel American culture is threatened more by Christian fundamentalists than Islamists!

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
how on earth, and why on earth would you police against someone's personal morality if they are not harming anyone, and the morality isn't offensive?

do you consider Christian morality offensive, and a breach of law?

perhaps many folks are unrepentable, christians, and Muslims. does that mean war? or perhaps it means public defiance of Christian law.

so some years we have a theocracy, and other years we have liberal law. is America schizophrenic in how it governs.

no, I think the best course is diplomatic democratic activism. this is a push pull culture here in America.

any internal war is best fought by education and enlightenment, and the war between fundamentalists and liberals will be won by civil means, and not violence.

The one thing about Christian fundamentalists that is true is they won't resort to violence unless violently attacked.

So solve the problem through civil activism, and see who wins.

Do you think there is victory here for one side or the other?

perhaps not.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Everything you describe applies to Conservative Christians. Of course others do fit the bill, but overall, the group around here that consistently hits them all are Fundamentalist/Conservative Christians. It most certainly wasn't a Buddhist or Pagan or Hindu being "concerned" about having to work with someone like me in the work place.

But obviously it is not Christian fundies I am speaking of is it.

Liberal/Conservative/Black/Brown/White/LGBT/Straight/Religious/NonReligious have all come together.

;)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There are exceptions true. #notall

But the vast majority do not approve of homosexuality. As proven by the lack LGBT affirming mosque.

Vast majority? Those countries i mentioned comprise some of the most populous Muslim countries.

And in some of the southern bible belt states, being gay gets you killed
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
And in some of the southern bible belt states, being gay gets you killed

No.

20+ years ago, maybe, it was rare even then.

You don't become a country with 8,200+ LGBT affirming Christian churches otherwise. How many Mosque let gay people in again?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I don't think that the number of religious organizations advertising controversial social or political agendas is a good indicator of anything important.
Tom

You don't think that Christianity changing and becoming more accepting of LGBT folk is a good thing? This is a great thing!
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You don't think that Christianity changing and becoming more accepting of LGBT folk is a good thing? This is a great thing!
Of course I do. Although not to the degree you might, since I see a heavy strain of "Stockholm Syndrome " going on there. And I personally know a fair number of Christian gays.

But it's nothing to do with the post, or the one I was responding to.
Tom
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Of course I do. Although not to the degree you might, since I see a heavy strain of "Stockholm Syndrome " going on there. And I personally know a fair number of Christian gays.

But it's nothing to do with the post, or the one I was responding to.
Tom

Stockholm Syndrome? Really that is a bit dramatic.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
May I presume that you aren't a gay Christian or know many? I see it all the time. Not always, nor severe, but frequently.
Tom

I won't deny that there might be some cases of something like that going on. But I have seen a drastic change of heart in Christianity overall. It could still be improved upon no doubt. There will always be a small amount of hold outs, who refuse to let go of old ways. Nothing can change the damage done in the past. But overall we are changing our ways, slowly, but surely. I am hopeful for the future of LGBT and Christian relations.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
But obviously it is not Christian fundies I am speaking of is it.
I know you weren't. You've been trying to shine the spotlight away from your own group and onto others, refusing to acknowledge a good number of Christians loose sleep over the fact gays can get married now, and realize that Muslims in Europe or the Middle East are utterly and entirely irrelevant to the argument because we are discussing the thread Christian fundamentalists pose to American culture and values. They are some of the worst and most reluctant in accepting that America is, was, and always will be a nation of great diversity. And not only that, they are fighting, still, even decades later, pleading and begging the courts to allow them the special privilege to discriminate against minorities.
That deserves to be repeating. LBGT people are targeted, attacked, harassed, and fundamentalist Christians--just as they did when it came to legally ending racial segregation and allowing women out of the house--are reluctant to accept and realize that Christians are pretty much the single greatest threat to American values, especially the promise of diversity and freedom of thought and association and expression provided to all citizens under the United States Constitution. No, instead they scream and demand we go through "treatments" that leave us worse than we were when these "therapies" begin.
Stockholm Syndrome? Really that is a bit dramatic.
I was going to reply to @columbus but this one came up, and not it's not a bit dramatic. Myself, I keep that fact that most people I interact with in Indiana are Christian, likely Republican, and probably voting against my rights in the booths buried very deep in the back of my head. And not just because I'm trans. But also because I don't believe in the Christian God, because I am extremely slow and reluctant to support war (often taken to mean I'm anti-military/anti-troop), and it's not unusual for me to not let on how smart and well read I am because such things are often viewed as threats by Fundamentalist Christians. Plus there is the fact the book of their religion says I'm an abomination, calls me a fool, says nothing good can come from me, says Christians aren't even supposed to associate with me anyways, and over a number of reasons demands I be put to death. They aren't holding people such as Columbus or myself hostage, but it's a fact things could get very lonely for us if we isolated ourselves from people who think it impossible for us to be good and moral people.
And then there are LBGT Christians, much more true to Stockholm Syndrome, loving the god who's book says to kill them and their blood is on their hands.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I know you weren't. You've been trying to shine the spotlight away from your own group and onto others, refusing to acknowledge a good number of Christians loose sleep over the fact gays can get married now, and realize that Muslims in Europe or the Middle East are utterly and entirely irrelevant to the argument because we are discussing the thread Christian fundamentalists pose to American culture and values.

I am not a fundamentalist. So I am not trying to distract away from my own group. I find it funny if someone says Islam is trouble you will be the first to #notall, but when Christianity is concerned you blame all for the actions of the few extremist/fundamentalist.

The thread is about Christian and Islamic fundamentalist so it is fair to bring it up and point out the flaws with each. Whats the problem with that?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I am not a fundamentalist. So I am not trying to distract away from my own group. I find it funny if someone says Islam is trouble you will be the first to #notall, but when Christianity is concerned you blame all for the actions of the few extremist/fundamentalist.
I hold equal disdain for Christianity and Islam. Their books are filled with great evils, and their organizations corrupt and a bane to human progress.
The thread is about Christian and Islamic fundamentalist so it is fair to bring it up and point out the flaws with each. Whats the problem with that?
You're trying so hard to deflect the attention that you apparently need a reminder of what the top of this page says. So, here it is:
I feel American culture is threatened more by Christian fundamentalists than Islamists!
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I feel American culture is threatened more by Christian fundamentalists than Islamists!

It's about opinions. As noted by the "I feel" it is not an assertion as you desperately are trying to make it seem. Both groups are mentioned so both are open to criticism. :D
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's about opinions. As noted by the "I feel" it is not an assertion as you desperately are trying to make it seem. Both groups are mentioned so both are open to criticism. :D
Not so much. It is about how Christians threaten American society in a far greater way than those who blow themselves up in the name of Islam. Such as, Christians, not Muslims, but Christians are the ones in Indiana who demanded they, the super sensitive special snowflakes they are, be granted a special right (not just privilege but a right) to discriminate against LBGT people. This is in spite of the fact that the Supreme Court already said that it doesn't matter what the reason (religious included), public businesses cannot discriminate against people based on several things. They can't discriminate against black people anymore, they can't flat out refuse to promote women to positions of management, and they are holding on as tight as they can to their desires to discriminate against LBGT people.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Not so much. It is about how Christians threaten American society in a far greater way than those who blow themselves up in the name of Islam. Such as, Christians, not Muslims, but Christians are the ones in Indiana who demanded they, the super sensitive special snowflakes they are, be granted a special right (not just privilege but a right) to discriminate against LBGT people. This is in spite of the fact that the Supreme Court already said that it doesn't matter what the reason (religious included), public businesses cannot discriminate against people based on several things. They can't discriminate against black people anymore, they can't flat out refuse to promote women to positions of management, and they are holding on as tight as they can to their desires to discriminate against LBGT people.

You are being irrational. Someone made a law. You perceived it as being a threat. You and others raised heck against the law, and shortly after the law was amended, to not allow discrimination based on sexul orientation.

If this is the threat of institutional power? I say what good is it for? If institutional power flails at the slightest breeze of opposition what good is it for? If someone who hated you had real institutional power over you don't you think it would be worse? Where are the Trump/Pence death squads? Where are the body counts? You let fear control you making you irrational.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You are being irrational. Someone made a law. You perceived it as being a threat. You and others raised heck against the law, and shortly after the law was amended, to not allow discrimination based on sexul orientation.
This is such a simplistic view of what actually happened it's hard to explain.
Governor Pence spent years trying to get a constitutional amendment banning SSM. He caved in rather cravenly when the amendment became a political liability. RFRA was a bone the Republicans threw to their base, so that the base could continue to discriminate against gays. When that turned out to be "bad for business " they caved again.
Pences reelection campaign looked so dismal he took a chance on Trumps running mate, when Trump was a 95% chance of losing.
You really don't know what your talking about here.
Tom
 
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