I don't want to shake your faith in God! Just to clarify my motives.

[Spiderman]

I know there's a lot of kind, generous, just, and humble Christians and Muslims. It is not with any delight that I try to say negative things about what you cherish.

I don't ever want to make a believer turn into an atheist. I want all people to have hope in a power greater than themselves.

I simply have the conviction, that God the creator (and the noble heavenly spirits), did not make the Bible without error, and I do them a service by not attributing such a book to them.

I see enormous evidence that the Bible has error. Yes, I'm very disrespectful of the god that is presented in many verses.

This isn't because I hate your faith, or that I hate God, but I despise some of the bigotry that is promoted in the Ancient text. Every fiber of my being tells me, "that's wrong!"

I believe it is really holding people back when that becomes their sole rule of faith. Nothing in the Bible says that the Bible is the sole rule of theology.

If I have been offending God, well then, almighty God, I'm sorry please have mercy on my soul. Please help me not offend you anymore.

For the time being, I feel that God wants me to stear people away from a harmful ancient text.

I hope that you will have just as much faith in God regardless of what I say. But I do honestly beg you to recognize or consider how much damage some scripture verses can do to people.

Trying to stear people away from the Bible (and the Quran) is not an attempt to destroy faith in God. I'm simply trying to get people to have faith in God without believing that a sick, psychopathic, bigoted, bloodthirsty, misogynist piece of literature is without error.

I hope you understand! No hard feelings! God help us all!

 

[Spiderman]

Just let people believe what they feel called to believe.

The Bible and the Koran forbid that. My ability to discern right from wrong tells me "that's wrong!"

Is God going to be angry at me for trying to do the right thing?

Keep in mind that I actually believe I'm doing what God wants me to do. Unless he tells me differently, I have to follow my heart and keep asking the Holy Spirit, or whatever good spirits are out there to inspire me and then I'll have to follow my moral compass.

 

[Anthem]

I guess I said it before, but you don't understand the bible. It's just a book.
Qur-ān also is just a book. But you have probably not read it anyway.

 

[Spiderman]

I guess I said it before, but you don't understand the bible. It's just a book.
Qur-ān also is just a book. But you have probably not read it anyway.

I have read the Quran. From front to back twice. It contains graphic tortures, mutilations, and calls to violence and bigotry. Most of it is okay though, besides being a bit incoherent.

 

[Anthem]

I have read the Quran. From front to back twice. It contains graphic tortures, mutilations, and calls to violence and bigotry. Most of it is okay though, besides being a bit incoherent.

In arabic?

 

[Spiderman]

In arabic?

no, but in English when it says people shall have their hands and feet chopped off they should be crucified and boiling water poured upon them, I assume that doesn't mean slap-on-the-wrist in Arabic.

 

[Spiderman]

I've heard that in Arabic that its actually even more severe.

 

[Anthem]

no, but in English when it says people shall have their hands and feet chopped off they should be crucified and boiling water poured upon them, I assume that doesn't mean slap-on-the-wrist in Arabic.

I have been told it cannot be translated from arabic properly. In other words it doesnt count as really reading the Qur-ān if it is not in arabic. And even then it needs to be read many times to understand it well.

 

[Jumi]

I have also been told that it's message is impossible to understand if one is not proficient in Arabic. It does make it seem esoteric.

 

[Earthling]

I have also been told that it's message is impossible to understand if one is not proficient in Arabic. It does make it seem esoteric.

I've often wondered about that. Does it seem exclusionary in a racist sense, do you think?

 

[Jumi]

Happy birthday! (If you celebrate it)

I've often wondered about that. Does it seem exclusionary in a racist sense, do you think?

I was about to start reading the Quran again when I was told I couldn't understand it anyway, after a few times of hearing that I lost interest. It makes you wonder how people who don't speak Arabic, but are Muslim are supposed to understand it. That would be the majority of Muslims.

 

[Earthling]

Happy birthday! (If you celebrate it)

I don't, but thanks for the sentiment.

I was about to start reading the Quran again when I was told I couldn't understand it anyway, after a few times of hearing that I lost interest. It makes you wonder how people who don't speak Arabic, but are Muslim are supposed to understand it. That would be the majority of Muslims.

I differed in that that made me want to read it all the more. I've read and transcribed several different translations to various old websites I've had over the years. In fact, once I transliterated an archaic translation of the Quran, replacing antiquated words like "niggardly," and "churlish" with modern replacements, and Islamic specific terms I researched and replaced with secular equivalents or gave a footnote explaining their meaning, and I think the Arabic only understanding theory is nonsense, probably based upon prayers where the Quran is read in a meditative sort of state.

 

[Cooky]

I know there's a lot of kind, generous, just, and humble Christians and Muslims. It is not with any delight that I try to say negative things about what you cherish.

I don't ever want to make a believer turn into an atheist. I want all people to have hope in a power greater than themselves.

I simply have the conviction, that God the creator (and the noble heavenly spirits), did not make the Bible without error, and I do them a service by not attributing such a book to them.

I see enormous evidence that the Bible has error. Yes, I'm very disrespectful of the god that is presented in many verses.

This isn't because I hate your faith, or that I hate God, but I despise some of the bigotry that is promoted in the Ancient text. Every fiber of my being tells me, "that's wrong!"

I believe it is really holding people back when that becomes their sole rule of faith. Nothing in the Bible says that the Bible is the sole rule of theology.

If I have been offending God, well then, almighty God, I'm sorry please have mercy on my soul. Please help me not offend you anymore.

For the time being, I feel that God wants me to stear people away from a harmful ancient text.

I hope that you will have just as much faith in God regardless of what I say. But I do honestly beg you to recognize or consider how much damage some scripture verses can do to people.

Trying to stear people away from the Bible (and the Quran) is not an attempt to destroy faith in God. I'm simply trying to get people to have faith in God without believing that a sick, psychopathic, bigoted, bloodthirsty, misogynist piece of literature is without error.

I hope you understand! No hard feelings! God help us all!

Thanks for your statement in the title. I was seriously thinking about bringing that very point to your attention yesterday. You read my mind! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Earthling]

I know there's a lot of kind, generous, just, and humble Christians and Muslims. It is not with any delight that I try to say negative things about what you cherish.

I'm sort of odd in that I don't pay much attention to descriptions like "kind, generous, just, and humble" when the facts are being evaluated. It doesn't matter to me if the person is a raving lunatic, the village idiot, the average Joe, an overestimated scholar, intellectually superior to me or not. To me what is important is what is said rather than who said it or what disposition they seem to possess while saying it.

I don't ever want to make a believer turn into an atheist. I want all people to have hope in a power greater than themselves.

I don't possess such lofty aspirations. I consider my goal to be to present facts as having been distorted and let the reader decide what they want to do with them. So I avoid appearing sanctimonious on religious or intellectual basis. I don't want to appeal to religiosity or intellectualism and so come off as vulgar, arrogant and bigoted.

Someone here posted an excellent video of Jordan Peterson talking about ideology. He quoted someone, I can't remember who, as saying "People don't have ideas, ideas have people." He complained that talking to most ideological people was like talking to someone who was turning a crank on the side of their neck which played a stream of useless words regurgitating whatever appeased their ideological world view. You can really relate to that if you have spent any time debating religion or politics. Though people function on an emotional basis from those ideological fixations, they can often be at least temporarily removed from that fixation through simple applications of logic. These brief eddies of logic in the stream of time are the only possible ways in which you can reach people through their wall of ideological and emotional defense.

I simply have the conviction, that God the creator (and the noble heavenly spirits), did not make the Bible without error, and I do them a service by not attributing such a book to them.

I see enormous evidence that the Bible has error. Yes, I'm very disrespectful of the god that is presented in many verses.

The trouble is you do this from an extremely emotional and ideological platform rather than a logical one. You will never reach anyone, you will only listen to the sound of your own voice. You are unreachable.

You often criticize Christians and other defenders of the Bible such as myself as selecting the portions of the Bible they find agreeable and dismissing the rest. Isn't that exactly what you are doing? You often question the canon of Scripture, but isn't the only solution to your primary criticism of the Bible to expurgate portions of it? If God is the monster you seem to think the Bible makes him out to be then why obfuscate the truth? Or, if the Bible isn't the fallible translation of the infallible inspired word of God then where did you get your God from?

This isn't because I hate your faith, or that I hate God, but I despise some of the bigotry that is promoted in the Ancient text. Every fiber of my being tells me, "that's wrong!"

Wrong according to you. Not wrong according to God. Which is exactly like saying wrong according to Adam, not wrong according to God. You make the same mistake Adam made. You remind me somewhat of Jonah and the shade of the bottle-gourd plant. (Jonah 4:1-11)

I believe it is really holding people back when that becomes their sole rule of faith. Nothing in the Bible says that the Bible is the sole rule of theology.

Would such a self promotion be taken seriously? It speaks for itself without need of such a claim.

 

[Jollybear]

I know there's a lot of kind, generous, just, and humble Christians and Muslims. It is not with any delight that I try to say negative things about what you cherish.

I don't ever want to make a believer turn into an atheist. I want all people to have hope in a power greater than themselves.

I simply have the conviction, that God the creator (and the noble heavenly spirits), did not make the Bible without error, and I do them a service by not attributing such a book to them.

I see enormous evidence that the Bible has error. Yes, I'm very disrespectful of the god that is presented in many verses.

This isn't because I hate your faith, or that I hate God, but I despise some of the bigotry that is promoted in the Ancient text. Every fiber of my being tells me, "that's wrong!"

I believe it is really holding people back when that becomes their sole rule of faith. Nothing in the Bible says that the Bible is the sole rule of theology.

If I have been offending God, well then, almighty God, I'm sorry please have mercy on my soul. Please help me not offend you anymore.

For the time being, I feel that God wants me to stear people away from a harmful ancient text.

I hope that you will have just as much faith in God regardless of what I say. But I do honestly beg you to recognize or consider how much damage some scripture verses can do to people.

Trying to stear people away from the Bible (and the Quran) is not an attempt to destroy faith in God. I'm simply trying to get people to have faith in God without believing that a sick, psychopathic, bigoted, bloodthirsty, misogynist piece of literature is without error.

I hope you understand! No hard feelings! God help us all!

You may not want to turn a believer into a atheist, but i want to turn atheists into believers. If everyone dont agree with me then there wrong because im right about everything and if everyone dont agree with me then that makes me feel either something is wrong with me or something is wrong with them, and either way, i cant have that. Thats not good.

 

[Earthling]

You may not want to turn a believer into a atheist, but i want to turn atheists into believers. If everyone dont agree with me then there wrong because im right about everything and if everyone dont agree with me then that makes me feel either something is wrong with me or something is wrong with them, and either way, i cant have that. Thats not good.

Well, you're smarter than the average bear.

 

[Spiderman]

I like those verses from Jonah.

But how do we know about God just because of book claims to be the word of God.

There is still debate to this day as to what the correct Canon of scripture is.

The first Christian Bible contained books in it that the Protestants ripped out.

How do I know who's right and who's wrong?

 

[Earthling]

I like those verses from Jonah.

But how do we know about God just because of book claims to be the word of God.

There is still debate to this day as to what the correct Canon of scripture is.

The first Christian Bible contained books in it that the Protestants ripped out.

How do I know who's right and who's wrong?

How do they decide canon? It's not an arbitrary process. The text has to be harmonious with the established scripture. The apocryphal texts aren't so they are left out.

 

[Spiderman]

How do they decide canon? It's not an arbitrary process. The text has to be harmonious with the established scripture. The apocryphal texts aren't so they are left out.

No, for over a thousand years Christians accepted the Apocrypha. There are more than 1.4 billion Christians who accept the Apocrypha. How do you know you are right and they are wrong. You simply don't know. The people that put together the New Testament Canon that you accept, believed the Apocrypha was the word of God. If they made a mistake on the old Testament Canon, how do you know they didn't make a mistake on the NT Canon???

 

[Earthling]

No, for over a thousand years Christians accepted the Apocrypha. There are more than 1.4 billion Christians who accept the Apocrypha.

That is irrelevant. The same number have also adopted pagan nonsense like the trinity, immortal soul, hell, Cross, Christmas, Easter, the rapture.

How do you know you are right and they are wrong.

I've already told you. They contradict the authentic scripture and most of them are historically known to be frauds.

You simply don't know.

I simply do know.

The people that put together the New Testament Canon that you accept, believed the Apocrypha was the word of God.

They did? If so, what difference would that make. They were former pagan priests or employed by the emperor who was a pagan sun worshiper until his death. I don't care what they thought.

If they made a mistake on the old Testament Canon, how do you know they didn't make a mistake on the NT Canon???

What mistake are you alleging they made in the "old testament"? and I've told you how I know, the apocryphal texts are not in harmony with the authentic.