I don't think we should hide the woman.

[Clara Tea]

Why do we have to be mysterious? We know what bodies look like in general.

Nudity? France and other developed nations have nude or topless beaches, and that doesn't seem to bother the women or the men. I suppose it is a matter of what one gets used to.

Fashions (and modesty) are continuing to get bolder. Hemlines have been going up since the 1800's....shockingly showing ankles, at first.

Modesty can also be locally defined. The word "prurient" is also locally defined.

 

[Clara Tea]

I cant say what others should do.

Many theists do say what others should do. Hemlines, beachwear, abortion, prayer in schools, condoms, sex education, etc. They elect our politicians, who then appoint judges for life on the Supreme Court. They make wars, and rule occupied nations (I thought that we elected them to be presidents, not rulers of the world). Torture camps, lies, and hiding things from congress are also in the mix. They support the NRA and the NRA has the pope on their enemy's list. For a religion of peace, they certainly are violent.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Many theists do say what others should do. Hemlines, beachwear, abortion, prayer in schools, condoms, sex education, etc. They elect our politicians, who then appoint judges for life on the Supreme Court. They make wars, and rule occupied nations (I thought that we elected them to be presidents, not rulers of the world). Torture camps, lies, and hiding things from congress are also in the mix. They support the NRA and the NRA has the pope on their enemy's list. For a religion of peace, they certainly are violent.

Well, I dont do that.

 

[Clara Tea]

P.s. no skunks in france, its just another Americanism to please american sensibilities

Pepe Le Pew....he paid her affection, despite her objection, then she shouted some interjections, which show excitement or emotion, and are generally set apart from a sentence by an exclamation mark or by a comma if the feelings are not as strong. (School House Rock).

Love should be reciprocal....both parties should be interested.

Sitting for hours in cancer wards, getting my treatments, I found reasons to renew my faith in humanity. 80 year old couples, who still loved each other deeply, stared into each other's eyes, and they knew that they would support and care for each other until their death. It is the sad end of every couple, when one or the other dies first.

They could just dump the sick one, and run off with a cute young lover (perhaps using money in lieu of looks).

Senator Strom Thurmond abandoned his wife of many years, claiming that he preferred the smell of perfume to liniment, thus abandoning his family and leaving his wife broke.

Perhaps kisses and lust are not the true measure of love, but devotion is.

 

[Clara Tea]

Laws are meant to aid and facilitate well being for society. You do tell women what to wear, you just don't believe Islamic code to be enforced. You don't allow women to walk naked in school and public for example.

So you rather judge by ignorance what women should wear and go by popular conjecture then insights from God which are not arbitrary and can be proven for the well being for society whether Islam is true or not.

"don't allow women to walk naked in school" I think that you'll find a little opposition there. If it is fine with the women, and fine with the men, that is.

God made bodies and is now ashamed of them? I wonder why he doesn't put clothes on newborns before they come out of the mother?

 

[Clara Tea]

Some citations about when, where, by whom,
& with what frequency would be useful.

You didn't excerpt anything to make part of your argument.
Merely expecting me to read your link, & arrive at the same
conclusion doesn't work.

A very few men wrote the religion.
But Islam is adopted by many many millions of men & women.
So blame those few medieval goatheards for the scripture
they created if you want. But the fact is that today, Islam
is very often the regime that imposes such restrictive dress.

Restrictive dress is no big deal for me. Head chopping and hand chopping is a big deal. Isn't that how the Venus De Milo got started?

 

[Clara Tea]

Women had to cover long time before Islam was even a twinkle in Mohameds eye.

And i see you never bothered with the wiki, fair enough.

Men wrote the religions, for the most part men have controlled the religions. This is not one you can blame on whatever god you favour

I don't think that Mary Magdalene wrote part of the bible. Maybe that is what is missing?

 

[Clara Tea]

I don't know... I'd say the bigger difference is what one or the other is after. From experience, there are far fewer women who are mostly after sex when they "prey" on men. More often they are looking to satisfy desires for other attentions... sex just happens to be one "technique" they know they can easily employ to try and further a given relationship toward their actual goals/desires. In other words... they know men are absolute suckers for sex and they can use this to their advantage to (potentially) snag other relationship-related benefits in the process.

When was the last time you saw (or even heard of) a man using sex as a vehicle to gain emotional benefits from a relationship with a woman? Not saying it hasn't happened - just pointing out that the stereotype is so heavily weighted in one direction on that one for very obvious and real reasons. Offering sex, or being the object of desire for money is a different issue, but I would still argue that the men who do this are with women who aren't after just the sex, but are also looking for the emotional benefits as well (even if that just be prestige of having a sexually desirable mate, or a feeling of "being desirable"). Men tend not to care about those things as much or as often - if sex is in the offering, that's "good enough" many times.

Justin Bieber seems popular.

 

[Clara Tea]

I think both are part of the problem. Takes two to tango.

What if the man tangos with another woman? Then it takes only one (of the couple) to tango to ruin the marriage, disrupt the kids, destroy the household, and cause civil lawsuits.

 

[Clara Tea]

I have studied art and thus visited many churches throughout Europe. Bare arms and head are a no,no and skirts should be below the knee in many churches

And yet nude beaches are permitted there.

 

[ChristineM]

And yet nude beaches are permitted there.

Not in churches they're not.

 

[ChristineM]

I don't think that Mary Magdalene wrote part of the bible. Maybe that is what is missing?

There is a gnostic gospel of Mary Magdalene. Seems the men who compiled the NT dscarded Mary's gospel along with others that didn't fit their agenda.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought we were talking about meat.

Most women who wear burkas are fine with them. They don't feel burdened, and they would feel naked without them. To them, they are judged by their actions and personalities, rather than their looks.

If women were vehemently opposed to burkas, that would be a different matter.

I've never asked any women in burkas if they want to
wear them. Here they're not required by government
to wear them. I don't know if their husbands require it
of them.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Justin Bieber seems popular.

Yes, and with respect to that, specific example, seeking sex with Justin Bieber likely isn't even just about the sex for a woman who would do so... but more about the perceived benefit of having sex with a celebrity, or in the hopes that "getting closer" may mean something more is in the offering. Do you think that the sex, itself, would be one of the chief items on the mind of women who might throw themselves at Justin Bieber? Based on my experience and witnessing the world in action, I would tend to think this is less often the case than that other motives or perceived "benefits" are in play.

But isn't it completely easy to imagine that a man would be more after the sex itself if the roles were reversed? Or, at the very least, that the sex itself is one of the main, prized items in the exchange? Men who might throw themselves at Scarlet Johannsen, for example. Sure, they may consider something like a relationship developing with her, or how interesting her celebrity is, but the sex itself very, very likely ranks right up there with those factors, if not surpasses them in importance.

Just think of it this way - consider the two celebrities mentioned above, and these scenarios offered as a heterosexual encounter to someone of the gender opposite the celebrity:

• One night with Justin Bieber, where he is very clear about not wanting anything more from the woman, and somehow it is insured that no one will know of their encounter.
• One night with Scarlet Johannsen, where she is very clear about not wanting anything more from the man, and somehow it is insured that no one will know of their encounter.

Considering an averaging of responses in a statistical manner across all the women and men of the world, presented with the appropriate scenario - who, do you feel, would end up showing a more likely tendency to accept (or reject)? Now take away the celebrity altogether, and make the object of sexual interaction just a man or woman of average build and body type, only moderately attractive. Who is more likely to accept and who more likely to reject? In my experience and witnessing, the woman will most certainly be more likely to reject, especially if the man is less attractive, and also especially if the man has made clear that he is just using her for sex. A man, on the other hand? If the woman is even just moderately attractive, and not outright unattractive to him, the prospect of the sex itself is largely compelling. And "being used" for sex is more likely to be perceived as a positive thing - whereby there is no further expectation to have to do anything other than have sex.

 

[Revoltingest]

Restrictive dress is no big deal for me. Head chopping and hand chopping is a big deal. Isn't that how the Venus De Milo got started?

This time of year up here, restrictive dress
is the norm for all. (Keeps frostbite away.)

 

[JustGeorge]

They're making elephants wear burkas now? Might help their prospects for marriage.

That's not a burqa; just a simple head covering.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They might go for a lot of reasons, but the most likely is the adult women that dance there. What is your point. Again, the lust is in the men.

Lol and the whole point of the establishment is to cause lust. Get real for once.

 

[Wildswanderer]

A woman is not a sex toy for horny guys.....a woman has her rights and should be treated with respect.

Right. But what if she doesn't act in a way that deserves respect?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That's not harassment in and of itself. It's a natural response to someone who appears to be either advertising, or soliciting. Like I said, '...don't be surprised...'

If it's unwanted, it's harassment. A natural response is the innate response mechanisms of how it makes you feel. A person makes the choice to take it to the level of harassment by assuming advertising or soliciting. What would be inherently advertising or soliciting in dress that couldn't also be based on comfort, fashion, or simply wanting to feel good about one's body?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Right. But what if she doesn't act in a way that deserves respect?

Who is to decide that? And what makes you immune from being mistreated due to someone's presumption of "respect"?