I don't believe America is a majority Christian nation

[-Peacemaker-]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus. We can't do that by asking if people are Christian. The term "Christian" doesn't mean anything anymore. We must look to what people actually believe about the teachings of Jesus in order to discern who truly believes in him. If the polls below on divorce, sex out of marriage, and homosexuality are correct, it's clear that the majority of Americans do not agree with the teachings of Jesus.

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2001/...ns-Say-Premarital-Sex-Morally-Acceptable.aspx

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gallup-slight-majority-say-homosexuality-morally-acceptable-74989/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ricans-find-divorce-morally-acceptable-32435/

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus. We can't do that by asking if people are Christian. The term "Christian" doesn't mean anything anymore. We must look to what people actually believe about the teachings of Jesus in order to discern who truly believes in him. If the polls below on divorce, sex out of marriage, and homosexuality are correct, it's clear that the majority of Americans do not agree with the teachings of Jesus.

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2001/...ns-Say-Premarital-Sex-Morally-Acceptable.aspx

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gallup-slight-majority-say-homosexuality-morally-acceptable-74989/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ricans-find-divorce-morally-acceptable-32435/

Christians who support these things does not make someone not a Christian anymore than my disagreeing with a lot of values my mother has makes me less of a daughter (or not even a daughter)to my own mother.

Polls do not share the personal and individual reasons people divorce, people identify as homosexual, people who de-sexify marriage. Actually talking with people who have real life situations good and bad will give you context as to why people believe as they do and still be have a relationship with Jesus.

I am very opinionated about the Christian faith; so, a lot of things talking against people who believe in Christ I would take offense. Why? Because you are not talking about data, polls, and information. You're talking about actual people and their personal beliefs. I dont think many christians and believers will even post here because of the nature of this thread; which is sad. Not because it's a repeat, I just feel that every believer from every faith and every person with every worldview should support each other in how They view their life and their values. It's not about us.

If you want more of a Christian debate, of course you can post this in same-faith debates. Other than that, personal experience and talking with people can't be replaced by data and polls.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

It's really simple. You either agree with Jesus' teachings or you don't

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I had no idea that Jesus only spoke about homosexuality, divorce and sex outside of marriage. I thought He spoke much more about much more important things. Silly me.

 

[columbus]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus.

In other news...
FearGod doesn't think ISIS is a Muslim group!

It's amazing to me how quickly huge world religions become a handful of smaller cults when we get down to brass tacks.
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's really simple. You either agree with Jesus' teachings or you don't

I disagree with a lot of my mother's values and that doesn't make me less of a daughter to my mother. A Christian can disagree with some of the things Christ says, that doesn't make him or her less of a Christian than I am a daughter to my mother. Everyone is growing in their spirituality (or values they hold most important for those who dont like the word).

Unless someone says "I do not want to follow Christ", as long as they are Christian--they have that relationship--whatever they do is just a way that their God is showing them what they can learn from. We learn from a lot of things we hold dear that may, in a Christian view, may not be god's way of thinking. It takes time as in any spiritual path.

It's not overnight. If someone says they are a Christian and they have that relationship with Christ, I dont question them. They are growing in Christ. That's what matters no matter what part of the road they are on.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I disagree with a lot of my mother's values and that doesn't make me less of a daughter to my mother. A Christian can disagree with some of the things Christ says, that doesn't make him or her less of a Christian than I am a daughter to my mother. Everyone is growing in their spirituality (or values they hold most important for those who dont like the word).

Unless someone says "I do not want to follow Christ", as long as they are Christian--they have that relationship--whatever they do is just a way that their God is showing them what they can learn from. We learn from a lot of things we hold dear that may, in a Christian view, may not be god's way of thinking. It takes time as in any spiritual path.

It's not overnight. If someone says they are a Christian and they have that relationship with Christ, I dont question them. They are growing in Christ. That's what matters no matter what part of the road they are on.

I do believe it is possible to be severely misguided in ones beliefs and still be a Christian, albeit a very immature one that is probably living under God's discipline. Most new Christians really should go beyond a week without understand the very basics about what the Christian God actually wants from them, regardless of how well they put that into action.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do believe it is possible to be severely misguided in ones beliefs and still be a Christian, albeit a very immature one that is probably living under God's discipline. Most new Christians really should go beyond a week without understand the very basics about what the Christian God actually wants from them, regardless of how well they put that into action.

I would rephrase it to God's blessing and plan rather than his discipline. His guidence not his punishment. Any Christian new or old are on the same path. No one is "better" than the other. This is for any person on any spiritual journey. I am no better than the pagan beside me. We may do different things some modern some not; and, that doesn't mean I am lesser in any degree of the term or more. It just means we are growing. In Christianity, it is the same.

Maybe some mature Christians should go to the basics. I know that its vary meaningful to many to evangalize but evangalization should be about supporting and being one with the other individual in Christ. It is not who is better christian, what denomination they are from, who is older, who has the better set of beads, and so on. That's silly. All Christians took the sacraments of Christ no matter how they define it. As such, evangalization should go out of their head and estill the relationship they have with each other (as in the Lord's Supper)should be there instead.

Evangalization has its purposes when it respects the other person's spiritual growth, where they are in their path, and how they (the person on the path not the evangalizer) sees life and interprets it. If they cannot respect that person (respect as in accept and support), then that's where I see judgement comes.

I notice this in most Christians I speak with on- and off-line. It is a nasty part of Christianity, and it needs to end with the next sentence that Christian says.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I had no idea that Jesus only spoke about homosexuality, divorce and sex outside of marriage. I thought He spoke much more about much more important things. Silly me.

I wouldn't say so far as to say that these commandments are more or less important than not lying, stealing, and murdering, but they are the big sticking points that many Americans have with Christianity and breaking them is more than enough to fracture one's relationship with Jesus

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wouldn't say so far as to say that these commandments are more or less important than not lying, stealing, and murdering, but they are the big sticking points that many Americans have with Christianity and breaking them is more than enough to fracture one's relationship with Jesus

I thought we were talking about the teachings of Jesus, not the 10 Commandments. By the way, I don't see premarital sex, divorce and homosexuality listed in the 10 Commandments, either. Jesus didn't say much about them, either, aside from telling married people not to divorce. Somehow it didn't seem all that big of a deal to Him. He seemed much more concerned about how people treat each other.

 

[Skwim]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus.

Why? Do you have some agenda in mind? Or do simply want a head count?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I thought we were talking about the teachings of Jesus, not the 10 Commandments. By the way, I don't see premarital sex, divorce and homosexuality listed in the 10 Commandments, either. Jesus didn't say much about them, either, aside from telling married people not to divorce. Somehow it didn't seem all that big of a deal to Him. He seemed much more concerned about how people treat each other.

He makes a big point about telling people to refrain from sexual immorality as well as the other commandments. And Jesus being a student of the OT knew the its definition of sexual immorality and never sought to redefine it much less revolutionize it like he did some of the other OT teachings
Mark 7:20-23 ESV

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Why? Do you have some agenda in mind? Or do simply want a head count?

hehehe...head count

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

He makes a big point about telling people to refrain from sexual immorality as well as the other commandments. And Jesus being a student of the OT knew the its definition of sexual immorality and never sought to redefine it much less revolutionize it like he did some of the other OT teachings
Mark 7:20-23 ESV

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

"Sexual immorality" is rather vague and other, older translations say "adulteries" and "fornications". The deeper meaning probably has more to do with spiritual adultery and fornication.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How can you (@-Peacemaker- ) tell a person's belief/their relationship with Christ based on polls and their behavior? Would you not say the only one who knows a Christian's heart is Christ Himself? How would another Christian and any other person for that matter have the right to judge a person's relationship with Christ by his or her behaviors?

I would say that is God's job. At least, that's how I understood it to be to sum up everything.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

How can you (@-Peacemaker- ) tell a person's belief/their relationship with Christ based on polls and their behavior? Would you not say the only one who knows a Christian's heart is Christ Himself? How would another Christian and any other person for that matter have the right to judge a person's relationship with Christ by his or her behaviors?

I would say that is God's job. At least, that's how I understood it to be to sum up everything.

Discernment is tricky and one that is bound in cause friction in a culture which values universalism. Jesus taught that we will know false teachers and believers by their fruits. Notice he tells us to "watch out", not to just take everyone's word for it


Matthew 7:

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What is your opinion on the numbers, in general. What i mean is, you are going to have a percentage of non-Christians, despite ethical ideas and positions, so forth. So, all you need to tip the scale towards non-Xianity, may only be, say 30% false Christian, etc.

Also some of your 'reasons', are just ridiculous. In the modern era, for example, in many places, it only takes one person to initiate a divorce. That leaves two divorced people. Does the poll question imply that everyone who got a divorce is 'morally incorrect'', etc? Some of the other ideas are silly as well.

I think you are presenting an arbitrary list of personal ethics, and presenting it in the guise of Christianity.

l'shalom

The polls study not divorce rates but what people believe about the morality of divorce

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Discernment is tricky and one that is bound in cause friction in a culture which values universalism. Jesus taught that we will know false teachers and believers by their fruits. Notice he tells us to "watch out", not to just take everyone's word for it


Matthew 7:

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

That still doesn't answer how Christians have the right to judge over God who has a relationship with him and who does not. Are you saying that Christians are god? They have the equal right to know a christians heart?

 

[Deathbydefault]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus. We can't do that by asking if people are Christian. The term "Christian" doesn't mean anything anymore. We must look to what people actually believe about the teachings of Jesus in order to discern who truly believes in him. If the polls below on divorce, sex out of marriage, and homosexuality are correct, it's clear that the majority of Americans do not agree with the teachings of Jesus.

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2001/...ns-Say-Premarital-Sex-Morally-Acceptable.aspx

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gallup-slight-majority-say-homosexuality-morally-acceptable-74989/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ricans-find-divorce-morally-acceptable-32435/

You can subjectively determine a Christian to be whatever you so please.
I see people like my parents, fundamentalists who take the bible word for word, as the only real Christians.
The rest, to me, are just people who like the happy stuff, or make the bad stuff happy stuff so they can like the bad stuff too.

We don't get to determine what makes someone a Christian, sadly.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

That still doesn't answer how Christians have the right to judge over God who has a relationship with him and who does not. Are you saying that Christians are god? They have the equal right to know a christians heart?

It's really simple. God gave us tools of discernment and told us to use them.