I do not belive in converting nonbelievers

[Spirit of Light]

This thread was inspired by the last OP of @Spiderman

As a believer in God, I do not see it as my "mission" to convert atheists to become believers in a God, because belief has to come from within. And since I have never been an atheist I do not know why or how they do not believe there is a God, except for their own explanation as in "No evidence". And if they can not find the evidence for a God, there are only two options for them to become believers That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?
2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

 

[The Hammer]

This thread was inspired by the last OP of @Spiderman

As a believer in God, I do not see it as my "mission" to convert atheists to become believers in a God, because belief has to come from within. And since I have never been an atheist I do not know why or how they do not believe there is a God, except for their own explanation as in "No evidence". And if they can not find the evidence for a God, there are only two options for them to become believers That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?
2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

Conversion doesn't work one way or there other. And that's ok.

 

[sun rise]

Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?

To me such "conversion" is no more than superficial forcing or at best encouraging a mind to function with a set of ideas. And the number of hypocrites peddling religion while not walking the talk are legion.

But there is another kind of change. Ramakrishna said When the flowers bloom, bees come of their own accord! This means that a soul has reached a certain state, it automatically becomes attractive to those who are seeking. Those who are attracted naturally gather around such a soul and seek to absorb the message.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To me such "conversion" is no more than superficial forcing or at best encouraging a mind to function with a set of ideas. And the number of hypocrites peddling religion while not walking the talk are legion.

But there is another kind of change. Ramakrishna said When the flowers bloom, bees come of their own accord! This means that a soul has reached a certain state, it automatically becomes attractive to those who are seeking. Those who are attracted naturally gather around such a soul and seek to absorb the message.

I fully agree with this in my understanding, when the spiritual heart awakens and start seeking it can happen to those who are nonbelievers too So no force is needed, they just need to hear the words that touch their spiritual heart and they become seekers.

 

[Heyo]

That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

I don't know of any case where an informed atheist has been convinced by an argument.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?

The "reward" may feel good but the chances are so slim, I think it isn't worth it. Try to convert those next to you, i.e. if you are Sunni Muslim convert a Shiite, if you are a JW try to convert a Mormon. You already share most of your beliefs, it should be easy to overcome that one little disagreement.
If you want to convince an atheist you 1. have to convince her/him that a god/specific set of gods exists, 2. that no other gods exist, 3. to 23. that that god has exactly the features you believe in but not the denomination next street, 24. that all that is enough for him/her to part with their money.

2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

Depends on my mood. Most of the time I see it as an intellectual challenge.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't know of any case where an informed atheist has been convinced by an argument.

The "reward" may feel good but the chances are so slim, I think it isn't worth it. Try to convert those next to you, i.e. if you are Sunni Muslim convert a Shiite, if you are a JW try to convert a Mormon. You already share most of your beliefs, it should be easy to overcome that one little disagreement.
If you want to convince an atheist you 1. have to convince her/him that a god/specific set of gods exists, 2. that no other gods exist, 3. to 23. that that god has exactly the features you believe in but not the denomination next street, 24. that all that is enough for him/her to part with their money.

Depends on my mood. Most of the time I see it as an intellectual challenge.

My experience with atheists here in RF is that they actually know a good part of many religious beliefs, they have studied the scriptures, even more than many who call themself believers And sometimes a believer should learn from that.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I don't know of any case where an informed atheist has been convinced by an argument.

Indeed. When a person has become committed to a fixed position, it's nigh on impossible to persuade them to shift even an inch in any direction.

 

[Heyo]

Indeed. When a person has become committed to a fixed position, it's nigh on impossible to persuade them to shift even an inch in any direction.

If you have a long history of experiences that all had one outcome, just one counterexample wouldn't switch your opinion. The danger is that we often forget about rare counterexamples and we overvalue confirming experiences (confirmation bias).

 

[RestlessSoul]

If you have a long history of experiences that all had one outcome, just one counterexample wouldn't switch your opinion. The danger is that we often forget about rare counterexamples and we overvalue confirming experiences (confirmation bias).

Sure. But what usually happens when two people attempt to persuade each other of contrary opinions, is that each becomes steadily more entrenched in his own position.

 

[Heyo]

Sure. But what usually happens when two people attempt to persuade each other of contrary opinions, is that each becomes steadily more entrenched in his own position.

Yep. That's why I often try to establish common ground by asking on what we do agree. The usual answer is that my interlocutor leaves the debate.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yep. That's why I often try to establish common ground by asking on what we do agree. The usual answer is that my interlocutor leaves the debate.

Maybe many believers are afraid of a challenge of their belief? I know I used to be

 

[The Crimson Universe]

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?

Being a peace-loving person i would never forcefully convert atheists into believers. As you said in your post, belief in God should come from within. Yes you can discuss your beliefs with non-believers and if they like 'em, then its good, otherwise let them walk their own path. Let the realization of the existence of a Supreme being dawn upon them on its own.

The soul/psyche/subtle body (whatever you call it) has to evolve intellectually and spiritually through reincarnation. It needs to purify itself from wordly contaminations like inflated ego, greed, lust, delusion etc.
It may take a thousand or more rebirths just to shake off the cloak of ignorance enveloping them. Once that happens, once we become aware of the presence of the Supreme being, there's no turning back.

Yes, sometimes (when we think in a dualistic manner) believers like me may become bitter and resentful towards God, on seeing all the violence, poverty and diseases around us and even think of rejecting His path or His presence. But once we recieve the correct knowledge, (especially from a non-dualistic/monistic POV) that it was never God who chained us in the first place... that instead its ME (Brahman/Infinite Spirit) who's playing a big game of Amnesia... that its actually Me (Brahman/Infinite Spirit) who has willingly and intentionally put on the cloak of forgetfullness or ignorance, just so that I (Brahman/infinite Spirit) could experience multiplicity, pain, joy, suffering etc.
So once we get to know this, we won't even blame God anymore. That is my understanding. Other's may disagree with my views. And that's completely ok

 

[Spirit of Light]

Being a peace-loving person i would never forcefully convert atheists into believers. As you said in your post, belief in God should come from within. Yes you can discuss your beliefs with non-believers and if they like 'em, then its good, otherwise let them walk their own path. Let the realization of the existence of a Supreme being dawn upon them on its own.

The soul/psyche/subtle body (whatever you call it) has to evolve intellectually and spiritually through reincarnation. It needs to purify itself from wordly contaminations like inflated ego, greed, lust, delusion etc.
It may take a thousand or more rebirths just to shake off the cloak of ignorance enveloping them. Once that happens, once we become aware of the presence of the Supreme being, there's no turning back.

Yes, sometimes (when we think in a dualistic manner) believers like me may become bitter and resentful towards God, on seeing all the violence, poverty and diseases around us and even think of rejecting His path or His presence. But once we recieve the correct knowledge, (especially from a non-dualistic/monistic POV) that it was never God who chained us in the first place... that instead its ME (Brahman/Infinite Spirit) who's playing a big game of Amnesia... that its actually Me (Brahman/Infinite Spirit) who has willingly and intentionally put on the cloak of forgetfullness or ignorance, just so that I (Brahman/infinite Spirit) could experience multiplicity, pain, joy, suffering etc.
So once we get to know this, we won't even blame God anymore. That is my understanding. Other's may disagree with my views. And that's completely ok

I like your answer here And I agree

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Trailblazer would it be possible to invite you into this discussion from the OP? I would be interested in hearing your view

I would like if @TransmutingSoul could come with some wisdom too But only if the topic is of interest of course

 

[ChristineM]

This thread was inspired by the last OP of @Spiderman

As a believer in God, I do not see it as my "mission" to convert atheists to become believers in a God, because belief has to come from within. And since I have never been an atheist I do not know why or how they do not believe there is a God, except for their own explanation as in "No evidence". And if they can not find the evidence for a God, there are only two options for them to become believers That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?
2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

If a believer attempts to convert me than i feel it is my duty to respond by explaining why I don't believe as they do.
Unfortunately the believer takes this as aggressive atheiem, attacking their belief and taking no account of their own aggressive attempts at conversion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If a believer attempts to convert me than i feel it is my duty to respond by explaining why I don't believe as they do.
Unfortunately the believer takes this as aggressive atheiem, attacking their belief and taking no account of their own aggressive attempts at conversion.

I have started to think that if a believer can't accept those who are nonbelievers and their views, maybe it is the believers who need to become more accepting that not everyone can or want to believe in a God

 

[RestlessSoul]

I have started to think that if a believer can't accept those who are nonbelievers and their views, maybe it is the believers who need to become more accepting that not everyone can or want to believe in a God

How much tolerance a person has of the beliefs of others, often seems to have more to do with the person, than the particular set of beliefs.

Whilst love and tolerance of others ought - in my opinion - to be at the heart of Christian belief and practice, many Christians fall well short of this ideal; indeed some probably deny it entirely.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How much tolerance a person has of the beliefs of others, often seems to have more to do with the person, than the particular set of beliefs.

Whilst love and tolerance of others ought - in my opinion - to be at the heart of Christian belief and practice, many Christians fall well short of this ideal; indeed some probably deny it entirely.

Agree with you, Love and tolerance is a huge part of every belief systems (of those I know anyway)

 

[loverofhumanity]

This thread was inspired by the last OP of @Spiderman

As a believer in God, I do not see it as my "mission" to convert atheists to become believers in a God, because belief has to come from within. And since I have never been an atheist I do not know why or how they do not believe there is a God, except for their own explanation as in "No evidence". And if they can not find the evidence for a God, there are only two options for them to become believers That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?
2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

I believe that we should never try and force others to accept any belief but at the same time any truth is not ours to keep all for ourselves but belongs to everyone and should not be deliberately withheld from anyone.


“The children of men are all brothers, and the prerequisites of brotherhood are manifold. Among them is that one should wish for one's brother that which one wisheth for oneself. Therefore, it behoveth him who is the recipient of an inward or outward gift or who partaketh of the bread of heaven to inform and invite his friends with the utmost love and kindness. If they respond favourably, his object is attained; otherwise he should leave them to themselves without contending with them or uttering a word that would cause the least sadness. This is the undoubted truth, and aught else is unworthy and unbecoming.”

Excerpt from
The Tabernacle of Unity
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Nimos]

This thread was inspired by the last OP of @Spiderman

As a believer in God, I do not see it as my "mission" to convert atheists to become believers in a God, because belief has to come from within. And since I have never been an atheist I do not know why or how they do not believe there is a God, except for their own explanation as in "No evidence". And if they can not find the evidence for a God, there are only two options for them to become believers That a believer in God actually do give them the exact evidence they looking for. or that they themself get direct proof from God, it must have happened from time to time because some atheist has become believers.

So the question is:
1: Should you as a believer try to convert atheists?
2: If you are an atheist reading this, how do you feel if a believer tries to convert you?

Don't think there is anything especially wrong with it as such. Mostly because it is an on going process anyway, whether you like it or not. But it goes both ways and across religions. You used to believe in something else and now you believe that Sufism is the right thing. Do you think that change was wrong or feel that someone "forced" you to do it?

To me that is the same with an atheist that goes religious, they might be convinced that such religion is true.

The real issue, is indoctrination. When parents forced their religious view on their children, because they are not always well suited to critical think or logically validate these things. And since children have faith and trust in their parents by default, its fairly easy for them to simply be convinced about it being true, because why would their parents tell them so or believe it themselves, if it weren't true? So the big issue is that parents usually or by default, want what is best for their children and therefore their beliefs as well. However if the parents do not give them a correct explanation of how or what such believe is founded on, then that is a big issue.

Children should not be taught or "forced" into their parents beliefs or lack their off, but should be taught to critical think and how to deal with these issues and when they are old enough or capable of making that decision, then they can decide whether they want to believe or not.

But trying to convert atheist or religious people (adults), is perfectly fine as I see it.