I cried out to God last night

[SeekingAllTruth]

I do believe this - yes.

We all agreed to the conditions that were given us.

It's not "by chance" at all.

Someone somewhere at sometime made decisions that led to that outcome.

If a child is born under crushing poverty - it is because their parents decided to have a child while they were under crushing poverty.

There is nothing supernatural about anything I have spoken on.

Agreeing to a plan for your life before you are born is not supernatural??????

 

[1213]

...Most of my problems are situational, related to my life situation that cannot really be changed, at least not right now, and maybe never. Because of that life situation I have periods of time that are very difficult and then things calm down for a while, but not for long. I do not really want to share all the details on the forum but you can engage me in a Conversation of you want to. Several people have done that since I posted this thread.

Ok, sorry to hear that. I understand if you want to keep it not public. However, maybe I could just say something generally, for every possible situation (if not enough, you can engage me in a Conversation if you want to).

I believe the key is to find real inner peace first, I believe after that there is no storm where you couldn’t be calm.

Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, give I to you. Don't let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.
John 14:27

The difficulty of every situation is really mainly in persons own mind. It creates impossible barriers and it can also obliterate them.

 

[Trailblazer]

The difficulty of every situation is really mainly in persons own mind. It creates impossible barriers and it can also obliterate them.

I fully agree that it all originates in the mind. It is our thinking that leads to our feelings such as feelings that our problems are surmountable. It is possible to change that thinking but it is not always easy to do, and sometimes we need help from other people. God works through people who help people although He might also work one on one. Then there is also faith.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Matthew also specifically states that God is incapable of saving most of humanity, hence they will go into destruction. It's such an impotent thing for a God to say, that's why I believe Jesus never said this; it came out of the mind of a harebrained scribe.

You have a very funny God there. Are Gospels true or false? What should one believe and what should one not believe? In your opinion Matthew was a harebrained scribe. Is that right? Were the others hair-brained scribes too? What about Tanakh?

 

[Trailblazer]

You were angry with God - most likely about whatever issue you were dealing with - therefore you told Him to fix the issue.

I did not TELL God to fix anything. I simply cried out for help and I never specified what I needed help with or what that help would be.

Asking for God's help is great - but He never once instructed people to do so by yelling at Him and calling Him names.

If you don't follow the prescribed method - you'll get a different result.

Prescribed by whom and prescribed where, in the Bible? I do not follow methods prescribed in the Bible, I do my own thing. An Almighty God is not going to break if I yell at Him once in a while. I never got any results by following the prescribed method and that is why I tried another method and it seems to work.

If my child is in time-out I ignore his crying.

It is not out of pettiness or holding a grudge - but because inappropriate behaviors should not be tolerated - and I want them to grow up to be decent people.

God will definitely ignore - or will at least be slow to respond - to the cries of those who act inappropriately.

Now you speak for what God will do, must be nice. I already told you I do not believe I am ‘God’s child.’ That is a Christian belief, not a Baha’i belief. God does not have children, humans have children. God is not a person who is slow to respond because He got His feelings hurt.

I don't need to be God in order to know how He might respond. There are ample examples of His dealings with Man in the scriptures.

Referencing those past examples is not me "speaking for God"

Anthropomorphisms of God are all you have, God never said or did any of those things in the Bible. Men wrote that God said and did those things, men who never heard from God. If I really want to know what God does all I have o do is read what Baha’u’llah wrote because He received a direct revelation from God and wrote it in His Own Pen. I know how God wants me to behave towards Him because of what Baha’u’llah wrote but I am not always obedient because I have certain ‘issues’ with God. The All-Knowing God knows I have these issues and that I am working on them and He is not so petty as to judge me like you do.

I'm glad you got the help. I hoped you learned that yelling at God and calling Him names doesn't help you or anyone.

But it did help me at the time and I got help because of it. You never heard of different strokes for different folks? I already told you that this time I was not yelling at God and calling Him names. Unlike some humans, God forgives people for past mistakes.

Testing to see if God is "worth His salt" is definitely asking after a sign.

The truth has no expiration date. If it was true a thousand years ago it is true today.

I never asked for a sign, I just asked for help. I always leave it up to God what form that help will come in if I ask for His help, which is rare, because I usually help myself.

The spiritual truths in the Bible are eternal so they are still true but much of the Bible no longer applies to this age.

He often tells men what He is doing - then those men write it down - in books.

The salient problem is that the men who wrote the Bible received no communication from God as Baha’u’llah did.

I never claimed to know anything about you.
But I do know that God gives us trials in order for us to learn and grow from the experience.

Because He loves us.

That might be true in general but generalizations do not apply to specific people and if a person has so many trials that they cannot even function and contribute to society then what good are they to other people? The only purpose I believe I serve is as God’s poster child for suffering, how much suffering one person can endure and still not commit suicide.

Is this what you call love? I don’t call it that. Moreover, I cannot believe things just because they are in scriptures, even Baha’i scriptures. So if I see something that does not seem right I question it.

That could be said of literally anyone - since we all have our trials.

No, that could not be said of everyone, because there are degrees of tests. I know plenty of people who have hardly been tested at all.

He does both - as well as innumerable other things that we are not even aware of.

That’s true, but the Holy Spirit does not live inside of bodies, it works through the soul.

Who is “we?”

Every single person who has lived - is living - and will ever live.

The entire human family of Adam.

I do not believe anyone except a Messenger of God can speak for everyone who ever lived and that is one way we differ.

I am free to share my opinion about the needs of the human race.

Yes you are, but it is just your opinion, not a fact.

I can share my opinion too, and my opinion is that the human race needs to recognize Baha’u’llah and put the Bible on the shelf.

I need no connection with God nor do I want it.

Oh - you just want to take advantage of His love for you.

How does anyone take advantage of an omnipotent God? Try to think about why that is not logical. Again, you are turning God into a human being, talking as if He was my spouse.

The next thing you will say is that is why I don’t have a connection, but I already know that because that is a Baha’i belief.

I'd say it is because you are prideful.

You can say whatever you want to but I know myself and I know why better than you do. A connection requires two parries participating and I am not participating. You can say it is because of pride but that is just a pat belief you get from the Bible. It is not pride; it is just lack of interest. I do not attend ball games either because I am not interested. Just because you cannot imagine someone not wanting a connection with God that does not mean everyone wants a connection with God. I especially don’t want one when people try to push God down my throat. I guess you don’t know much about psychology.

Part of life is hearing other people's beliefs - even if you disagree with them.

For example - I don't believe that the Bab or Baha'u'llah were true messengers of God.

The scriptures also show many examples of God conversing with people who were not considered prophets or messengers.

I listen to other people’s beliefs all day long, much more than they listen to mine. I do not CARE what the Bible scriptures show because those are not the scriptures I adhere to. Am I asking you to believe what Baha’u’llah wrote?

You claimed to have called God names - that is cursing Him.

And it makes you capricious - not God.

You acting in that manner causes you ill effects and desensitizes you to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

God does not care if I call Him names, He is not that delicate. I only hurt myself temporarily, God cannot be hurt.

Like I said, I do not adhere to Christian beliefs about how the Holy Spirit operates.

(Continued on next post)

 

[Trailblazer]

I have not at any time mocked the Baha'i faith or called your God "imaginary".

No, you dismiss my religion altogether and believe Christianity is the only true religion so there is no dialogue to be had. That is dismissive. At least I am honest about what I think of Christian beliefs.

But I do understand that it is your pride that causes you to make stuff up about my beliefs and then mock them.

And it is your arrogance that judges me. What I think about Christian beliefs had nothing to do with pride but what you think of Baha’i beliefs has everything to do with pride since you believe that Christianity is the only way. What I think about Christian beliefs is derived from the Baha’i Writings, not from my personal opinion, so it is not about me.

I never once said that God had hurt feelings. I always said that you were hurting yourself.

That’s fair enough, except for the assumption that everyone needs God. I don’t buy it even though my religion teaches it. Bahaullah wrote that some fruit only ripens after it falls from the tree, so those who don’t get it right, if they were sincere seekers in this world, can receive God’s mercy in the spiritual world.

And you think you know what God gives us how?

I am merely relaying what the scriptures say. Much like how you have been quoting from your scriptures.

Fair enough. Much of it is the same since spiritual truth never changes.

You don't need to have met Jesus to be a prophet or write down what is true.

And most of the New Testament writers did meet Jesus - either during His mortal ministry or after His Resurrection.

You cannot know what is absolutely true unless it comes from God directly. Only the Prophets of God heard from God directly but the problem is that none of the Prophets in the Bible wrote the Bible, so it is the words of men, perhaps inspired by God.

Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

The Three Kinds of Prophets

All Biblical scholars know that none of the New Testament writers knew Jesus. All that was written was passed down through word of mouth and it changed as it was passed down from person to person.

If God only gives people what they can handle why do so many people commit suicide?

Are you arguing that suicide was inevitable for those people?

Are you saying it was their fault because it could have been prevented?

If you don't want to talk to me then stop responding to my posts. There is no gun to your head. [/quote]
The same applies to you. And you probably won't ever want to talk to me again after you see what i posted to you on that other thread. That took me hours to pack and it is a lot to unpack.

What is a "believer"? By what metric are you making this claim? How is compassion measured? What do you consider to be "compassion"?

A believer is someone who believes in God. Compassion is sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others. Compassion is not getting a lecture about how a person should respond to their suffering according to the Bible; it is understanding and caring about other people. And not judging them.

Yeah - it's my fault that sarcasm or "jesting" isn't conveyed well in the written word.

I also call BS on this. I do not believe that you were jesting. You were tempting God. Seeking after a sign.

Who said anything about fault? Your fault is not that you did not understand that I was jesting; your fault is that you continue to arrogantly assume you know what I am doing better than I know. Baha’u’llah has a few choice words to say about people who do that.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

Yet those same scriptures explain that there are prerequisites - like humility - that one must follow before receiving divine intervention.

I believe that you have false expectations because you are ignorant of these things.

The Baha’i scriptures don’t say that so I do not have to believe that. Moreover, it is only your interpretation of the Bible that leads you to believe that. I know of no Bible verses that actually say that God only helps people who are humble, and who are you to judge who is humble anyway?

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

This confirms your ignorance to me.
These verses do not say that we can never judge - only that with whatever judgment we use shall also be used to judge us.
So - if I judge someone unjustly - I will be judged unjustly.
However - if I am always fair and just in my judgments - I will receive fair and just judgment.
I am completely fine with being judged by the judgment I have used here.

You carefully sidestepped Matthew 7:3: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

The most important part of these scriptures is when Jesus said we should not judge (find fault with) other people, but rather we should look at our own faults, which is essentially the same as what Baha’u’llah wrote:

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

If I ever start yelling at God and cursing Him - I would hope that the Lord would consider me being prideful.

Don't forget - I didn't come to you about all this. You were the one who put yourself out there with your OP and showcased your pride.

You have no one to blame but yourself - but you're prideful - so you won't do that.

Yet nobody called me prideful except you. Logically speaking that means you are projecting your own beliefs and perhaps your own false pride onto me. I guess you don’t know much about psychology but that is my field.

Look at how many people rated my post Friendly. That is what decent people do, they understand and have compassion for someone who is suffering; they do not judge them. I cannot even imagine Jesus judging me the way you do even though He has the right.

That is what prayer is. Talking with God.

If you don't want it - don't pray to Him.

Don’t worry I won’t, except when I have something important to say.
I’d be an atheist or a deist if I did not know that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

You have a very funny God there. Are Gospels true or false? What should one believe and what should one not believe? In your opinion Matthew was a harebrained scribe. Is that right? Were the others hair-brained scribes too? What about Tanakh?

Oh, you're going to put me on the spot. Okay. The gospels are non-historical. The general consensus is they were written not by eyewitnesses or any apostles but by highly educated Greek scholars writing 50-100 years after the supposed crucifixion. Outside the Bible there is no evidence of a Jesus of Nazareth, the 12 apostles or Paul. The only reference in secular historical manuscripts is a statement written by Tacitus around 125 CE "Chrestus suffered the ultimate punishment inflicted by curator Pontius Pilate..." Doesn't even say Jesus, just says "Chrestus" which presumably is a transliteration of Christus, which means "chosen one". The gospels present fictionalized episodes in the life of a dying/rising god named Jesus. As such they are mythical, in the class of accounts of Hercules and Dionysus. After the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE the gospels began to be written, turning this mythical character into a real human being. The legends spread and at some point people began to believe this mythical character was a real person even though no evidence for him exists. IMHO Matthew and the other 11 weren't even real, they were mythical companions to Jesus like Odysseus had companions. I don't know about the Tanakh.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh, you're going to .. like Odysseus had companions. I don't know about the Tanakh.

Glad to meet you, @SeekingAllTruth . You are certainly seeking all truth.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Glad to meet you, @SeekingAllTruth . You are certainly seeking all truth.

Yes, I try to. Glad to meet you too.

 

[capumetu]

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

How is that related to what I said? Do you think that only a few people really believe in God?

Depends on how you define belief maam. Knowing that He exists, or the Biblical definition of His people. Biblical belief requires action through obedience. You posted the scripture indicating only a few live the definition of a Biblical believer.

Biblical unbelievers are considered to side with the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4

 

[chinu]

I said "I screamed at Him in abject anger and told Him I need help."
How is that threatening God?

If any beggar come to your door step and ask for money — screamed at you in abject anger — but, you don’t gave that beggar to test his true humbleness — but that beggar left your door in anger because you didn’t gave.

Is that true humbleness ?

Does everyone have to pray the same way?

A true humble person remains humble even if didn’t get what was demanded.

Who is is truly humble, and who is NOT— All knowing God knows well everything in advance.

Nobody can cheat him

 

[Trailblazer]

If any beggar come to your door step and ask for money — screamed at you in abject anger — but, you don’t gave that beggar to test his true humbleness — but that beggar left your door in anger because you didn’t gave.

Is that true humbleness ?

You have completely twisted what I said. I said I told God I need help. I did not beg God for help or ask for anything on particular as a beggar asks for money... words matter because they all have meanings.

My being angry at God has nothing to do with whether I am a humble person or not.
Lots of people get angry at God at times. But that is no big deal to God, only a big deal to people who have been brainwashed by the Bible. Thank God that does not include me.

A true humble person remains humble even if didn’t get what was demanded.

But I did not demand anything and I did not even ask for anything in particular.

Humility has nothing to do with any of this.
Humble means having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance. Just because I ask an Almighty God for help does not mean I think I am important. If asking God for help means people think they are important, people who constantly pray to God asking for help would be the ones who believe they are important. I do not even think I am important enough to ask God for help unless it is a emergency.

Who is is truly humble, and who is NOT— All knowing God knows well everything in advance.

That's right... God knows who is humble, but you do not know.

Nobody can cheat him

And nobody can hurt Him either because God cannot be hurt....
He can hurt us but we can't hurt Him, which is the definition of unfairness.

 

[Trailblazer]

Depends on how you define belief maam. Knowing that He exists, or the Biblical definition of His people. Biblical belief requires action through obedience. You posted the scripture indicating only a few live the definition of a Biblical believer.

Whether it is a Biblical belief that belief requires action through obedience depends upon which Christian you are talking to. Many Christians believe that all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer. So which one of you is right? You are both reading the same scriptures.

Biblical unbelievers are considered to side with the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4

2 Corinthians 4:4
New International Version

4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

That scripture was written to apply to the Christian Dispensation, which ended when Baha'u'llah appeared in the 19th century.

The blindness of this age is different, and is more correctly stated as follows:

The emotional attachment to the man Jesus has blinded the minds of Christians, so that they cannot see the light of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah who was the Glory of God, who is the image of God.

Unbelievers cannot see the light of the gospel because its true meaning has been so mucked up by Christianity that it is unrecognizable as anything that came from the real Jesus. That's why so many people are leaving Christianity in droves and most of them are unbelievers.

 

[capumetu]

Whether it is a Biblical belief that belief requires action through obedience depends upon which Christian you are talking to. Many Christians believe that all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer. So which one of you is right? You are both reading the same scriptures.

2 Corinthians 4:4
New International Version

4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

That scripture was written to apply to the Christian Dispensation, which ended when Baha'u'llah appeared in the 19th century.

The blindness of this age is different, and is more correctly stated as follows:

The emotional attachment to the man Jesus has blinded the minds of Christians, so that they cannot see the light of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah who was the Glory of God, who is the image of God.

Unbelievers cannot see the light of the gospel because its true meaning has been so mucked up by Christianity that it is unrecognizable as anything that came from the real Jesus. That's why so many people are leaving Christianity in droves and most of them are unbelievers.

Now all you need to do is come to know what a Christian is maam.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now all you need to do is come to know what a Christian is maam.

I already know what a Christian is.

 

[capumetu]

I already know what a Christian is.

Do you? You said this in your post: Many Christians believe that all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer.

That is not a teaching of the Bible maam, Christians apply the Bible's teachings in their life. Jesus, the leader of Christianity said this: (Luke 13:23, 24) . . .Now a man said to him: “Lord, are those being saved few?” He said to them: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.

I do not think he is wrong maam, do you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you? You said this in your post: Many Christians believe that all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer.

I never said that the 'belief' many Christian hold -- all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer -- is in the Bible. I do not believe that is in the Bible, but nevertheless it IS a Christian belief..

That is not a teaching of the Bible maam, Christians apply the Bible's teachings in their life. Jesus, the leader of Christianity said this: (Luke 13:23, 24) . . .Now a man said to him: “Lord, are those being saved few?” He said to them: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.

I do not think he is wrong maam, do you?

No, I do not think He is wrong. However, as I said above, the 'belief' many Christian hold -- all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer -- is a Christian belief. Christians might be able to find a few verses from Paul that support that belief, but Jesus never said anything like that in the gospels.

I do not believe that Jesus was ever the 'leader' of Christianity. Jesus would never even recognize what Christianity has become.

Maybe only a few will be able to get in through the narrow door and many others will seek to get in but will not be able to get through, but nobody knows who those few will be except God. I think that those who believe they are the ones who will get through will not be the ones who actually get through since Jesus said we should be humble...

Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

How humble are people who believe they are among the few who will get through the narrow door?

 

[capumetu]

I never said that the 'belief' many Christian hold -- all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer -- is in the Bible. I do not believe that is in the Bible, but nevertheless it IS a Christian belief..

No, I do not think He is wrong. However, as I said above, the 'belief' many Christian hold -- all they have to do is believe that Jesus is their Savior and that makes them a believer -- is a Christian belief. Christians might be able to find a few verses from Paul that support that belief, but Jesus never said anything like that in the gospels.

I do not believe that Jesus was ever the 'leader' of Christianity. Jesus would never even recognize what Christianity has become.

Maybe only a few will be able to get in through the narrow door and many others will seek to get in but will not be able to get through, but nobody knows who those few will be except God. I think that those who believe they are the ones who will get through will not be the ones who actually get through since Jesus said we should be humble...

Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

How humble are people who believe they are among the few who will get through the narrow door?

Beliefs are about as numerous as humans maam. Jesus is according to the Bible the head of Christians who were called that after him. The Bible must be taken as a whole, that whole belief thing was rampant in the first century, Jesus' brother James addressed ti more fully. It has really been promoted moreso now that satan has been cast to the earth. Obedience is the key. There was a reason why Jesus spoke about humility, and who was meant to hear those words. Although all of us Christians are sinners, we do our utmost to display the fruitages of the spirit mentioned at Galatians 5:22,23