I cried out to God last night

[PruePhillip]

But one would drive themselves crazy thinking there's "must be" rather than is a answer to the Why question.

Must-bes, everyone knows, etc arent stating facts. Life is completely uncrrtain. People wake up and don't even know if today is the day they'd die.

I can see why answering questions help you. I find it, by default, realistic to accept there are no answers just beliefs and assumptions.

I wonder how a person can be so indoctrinated in their religion there is no room and interest to leave the questions alone. That or take it for granted that their answers actually reflect just because of our experiences. In mental health, it's said we all have biases and emotions and experiences are not always true but we can't see that behind our confirmation bias. When we are indoctrinated in those views, they take for granted they can be wrong.

Scary feeling

But that works Both Ways. Many people are indoctrinated to believe science has all the
answers, and if they don't then one day they will, including why we are here.
And that's nonsense, dressed up as science. Just like when some scientist says "There's
no evidence of .... in the bible.... therefore it didn't happen." That's just abuse. Because
often the thing there's "no evidence" for turns up (ie King David, Sumer, camel domestication,
high populations in the bible narrative etc..)

 

[Trailblazer]

How about this? It describes what’s happening right now in the world.

The world with the various calamities that have befallen it, will be completely ravaged and its civilization demolished, if the Bahá'ís do not come to its help and embue it with the spirit that Bahá'u'lláh has brought to the world. The economic factions, political parties, national hatreds, racial prejudices, and religious antagonisms, will continue to bring about devastating wars until the spirit of the Cause permeates the heart of man, and its universal teachings pull down the existing barriers. Let us be reminded of our duty by the misery we see around us, and arise for the prosecution of our noble duty."

(From a letter dated 24 November 1931 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the American National Spiritual Assembly)

It sure does describe it, so what I want to know is what the Baha'is are doing about it.
How is the spirit of the Cause going to permeate the heart of man, and its universal teachings pull down the existing barriers if people have never even heard of Baha'u'llah?

 

[Trailblazer]

If God were human He'd be locked up for criminal child abuse and the jailers would throw away the key.

But since God is not human and is instead omnipotent He gets away with all kinds of stuff.
But it would not be so bad if the scriptures did not say God answers prayers.

I do not expect God to cure all the sick children because that would interfere with God's design, which is to allow human suffering as some kind of object lesson that helps people grow spiritually and will be recompensed in the spiritual world. To hell with all the grief those parents have to endure, that's not God's problem.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh, we have heard of Bahaollah and many more like him. but all I heard from him is "I am the manifestation of Allah and no other will come for a thousand years" and nothing to substantiate that except the vision of a "Heavenly Maiden".

I do not expect God to cure all the sick children because that would interfere with God's design, .. To hell with all the grief those parents have to endure, that's not God's problem.

Is your God/Allah so evil?
Why does he has to have this kind of design?

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, we have heard of Bahaollah and many more like him. but all I heard from him is "I am the manifestation of Allah and no other will come for a thousand years" and nothing to substantiate that except the vision of a "Heavenly Maiden".

For those who want to know what the evidence is...

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is that why bahais have no Satan? Just their God/Allah is enough. You have made God/Allah another name for Satan.
I am a person who goes by science. Your kind of "All-talk" evidence can never satisfy me.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

You sound like a good parent. When your kids get sick you do everything in your power to help them, right? if your 5 year old is vomiting and begs to you, "Daddy, please help me" you act immediately, right?

Millions of Christians are in the exact same dilemma as your child. I know of millions of Christians whose children are battling cancer right this minute and the parents are praying their hearts out. But the children die slow agonizing deaths anyway. Does He answer those prayers or does He just ignore them? God doesn't even have the decency to let them die quickly without pain.

But Christians have invented dozens of excuses for why God doesn't answer prayers. You just gave us one. "God isn't at your beck and call to come running when you ask Him to do something." Other lame excuses: you have sin in your life; you don't have enough faith when you pray; God's idea of a good thing is different than yours; God is waiting for you to be obedient; and on and on and on and on...but the results are all the same: God doesn't answer their prayers and kids die by the millions.

From a Christian point of view, IMHO you should be thinking what I am thinking--that God is worthless parent not fit to have people calling him father. But I know your fear of hell and ticking him off and all that prevents you from even considering what a lousy parent he really is. If God were human He'd be locked up for criminal child abuse and the jailers would throw away the key.

These are things said from a very finite and limited perspective.

None of God's children "die". When we leave this world we go back to where we came from.

We are eternal creatures - like God - this mortal life is barely a *blip* in our existence.

It's an important *blip* - but still a *blip* compared to eternity.

I believe that God made several promises to us before we came into this world - one of those being that He will not interfere in our freedom of choice.

And we agreed to experience all the ups and downs of imperfect mortal living. That's life.

God isn't going to save all of us from sickness or pain - because these help give us experience and if we handle them well they will be for our betterment and make us stronger.

God isn't going to rob us of our reasons for being here. To experience both good and bad.

For every bad thing we can name there are innumerable good things in our lives.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"In the East the light of [God’s] Revelation hath broken; in the West have appeared the signs of His dominion. Ponder this in your hearts, O people, and be not of those who have turned a deaf ear to the admonitions of Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Praised. Let the Breeze of God awaken you. Verily, it hath wafted over the world. Well is it with him that hath discovered the fragrance thereof and been accounted among the well-assured.": Existence of Allah? Does it prove that Bahaollah had some message from Allah? What does it prove? Meaningless word-salad.

"He declared he was the promised world messiah foretold in all the prophecies, in all the holy books, of all the religions of the world – the one promised to come on the Day of Judgment, the Day of God, the Time of the End, the End of the World, to establish the kingdom of God on Earth."
He declared! As if his declaration is proof enough? It may have been good enough for some uneducated Iranians in 1853, it is laughable in 2021.

"God isn't going to save all of us from sickness or pain .."

You keep your God with you. Many of us here can do excellently without him. If he would not save us from sickness and pain, then for us he is good for nothing, unnecessary.

 

[capumetu]

Yes, God provides what we need, which is not always what we believe we need.
Many people reject God but I do not think most people do.

It is very unlikely Jesus is in error Mat 7:13,14

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

These are things said from a very finite and limited perspective.

None of God's children "die". When we leave this world we go back to where we came from.

We are eternal creatures - like God - this mortal life is barely a *blip* in our existence.

It's an important *blip* - but still a *blip* compared to eternity.

I believe that God made several promises to us before we came into this world - one of those being that He will not interfere in our freedom of choice.

And we agreed to experience all the ups and downs of imperfect mortal living. That's life.

God isn't going to save all of us from sickness or pain - because these help give us experience and if we handle them well they will be for out betterment and make us stronger.

God isn't going to rob us of our reasons for being here. To experience both good and bad.

For every bad thing we can name there are innumerable good things in our lives.

Just tell me one thing: did the children who were born into all sorts of horrible abuse and then wound up on the streets, got into drugs to cope with the nightmares of their childhoods and died of OD as teens--did they agree to God's wretched plan for them before being born into this??

The likelihood is we were all born into different circumstance purely by chance, some into royal and wealthy families but most into the slums of 3rd world countries. The wealthy and royalty live lavish lives and the vast majority live in squalor and crushing poverty that kills them at an early age. It's called "the hand you were dealt at birth". Nothing supernatural about it. Just odds and luck.

 

[chinu]

Last night I was at the end of my rope so I cried out to God, or should I say I screamed at Him in abject anger and told Him I need help, so now I will find out if He comes through or not. Usually I just scream at God and call Him names, but this time I asked for help, so the ball is now in God’s court. God can help me because He is All-Powerful, or He can just leave me standing at the side of the road.

Mind you, the All-Knowing God already knows what I need help with, so I did not need to put in a prayer request. God already knows I have tried to solve these problems by myself to no avail, so it is not as if I am just sitting around doing nothing. I have struggled with these issues for what seems like forever but I have come to a dead end and I know not what to do. This is when God is supposed to step in and help me if He is worth His salt.

Are you praying, or threatening God ?

True prayer has true emotion of prayer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is your God/Allah so evil?
Why does he has to have this kind of design?

I don't know why God designed the world this way so people would suffer (some much more than others) and I do not make any excuses for Him like Christians and other Baha'is. I just believe in Him, I do not have to like Him or His setup.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: Many people reject God but I do not think most people do.

It is very unlikely Jesus is in error Mat 7:13,14

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

How is that related to what I said? Do you think that only a few people really believe in God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you praying, or threatening God ?

I said "I screamed at Him in abject anger and told Him I need help."
How is that threatening God? How could I ever hurt an omnipotent God?

True prayer has true emotion of prayer.

What do you think that is? Is it the same for everyone?
Does everyone have to pray the same way?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

How is that related to what I said? Do you think that only a few people really believe in God?

Matthew also specifically states that God is incapable of saving most of humanity, hence they will go into destruction. It's such an impotent thing for a God to say, that's why I believe Jesus never said this; it came out of the mind of a harebrained scribe.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Just tell me one thing: did the children who were born into all sorts of horrible abuse and then wound up on the streets, got into drugs to cope with the nightmares of their childhoods and died of OD as teens--did they agree to God's wretched plan for them before being born into this??

I do believe this - yes.

We all agreed to the conditions that were given us.

The likelihood is we were all born into different circumstance purely by chance, some into royal and wealthy families but most into the slums of 3rd world countries. The wealthy and royalty live lavish lives and the vast majority live in squalor and crushing poverty that kills them at an early age. It's called "the hand you were dealt at birth". Nothing supernatural about it. Just odds and luck.

It's not "by chance" at all.

Someone somewhere at sometime made decisions that led to that outcome.

If a child is born under crushing poverty - it is because their parents decided to have a child while they were under crushing poverty.

There is nothing supernatural about anything I have spoken on.

 

[Trailblazer]

Matthew also specifically states that God is incapable of saving most of humanity, hence they will go into destruction. It's such an impotent thing for a God to say, that's why I believe Jesus never said this; it came out of the mind of a harebrained scribe.

I do not know what verses you are referring to but there is no 'logical reason' to think that Jesus actually said these things. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" does not mean what most Christians believe it means. That was written and applied only to when Christianity was the narrow way, when there were very few Christians in the first centuries, but Christianity is no longer the narrow way because about 30% of the world population is now Christians.

Some Christians say that only 'certain Christians' found the narrow way but that doesn't work because there is no reason to think certain Christians are right and others are wrong.

Given that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, Christianity is now "the wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Just as Christianity was the small gate and the narrow road that led to eternal life in the first centuries when there were few Christians, the Baha'i Faith is now the small gate and the narrow road that leads to eternal life in the first centuries since its inception. It's too bad Christians don't like that but nobody can change what an omnipotent God has ordained.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Many or most people do not believe in the Baha’i Faith because it is the new religion at the narrow gate. Below are the primary reasons why most people do not believe in a new religion.

The religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies. If they are irreligious they have become fatigued by the already established religions and thus just find it more annoying that a new one has popped up.

It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow the broad road that is easiest for them to travel.

 

[Trailblazer]

We all agreed to the conditions that were given us.
It's not "by chance" at all.

Someone somewhere at sometime made decisions that led to that outcome.
If a child is born under crushing poverty - it is because their parents decided to have a child while they were under crushing poverty.

So how did that child agree to what they had no control over?

And crushing poverty is not the worst of conditions a child can be born into. A child can potentially get out of poverty but not all children can heal from deficient parenting.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Golly - there is a lot to unpack here.

No, it isn’t making a demand because I asked for help – I told Him I need help, I did not make a demand.

You were angry with God - most likely about whatever issue you were dealing with - therefore you told Him to fix the issue.

Asking for God's help is great - but He never once instructed people to do so by yelling at Him and calling Him names.

If you don't follow the prescribed method - you'll get a different result.

I said that is what I usually do, not what I did this time. Maybe God can see that I have made some progress because God is not petty and holding grudges for what “I used to do.”

If my child is in time-out I ignore his crying.

It is not out of pettiness or holding a grudge - but because inappropriate behaviors should not be tolerated - and I want them to grow up to be decent people.

God will definitely ignore - or will at least be slow to respond - to the cries of those who act inappropriately.

How would you know, are you God? Since you are NOT God, why do you speak for God?

I don't need to be God in order to know how He might respond. There are ample examples of His dealings with Man in the scriptures.

Referencing those past examples is not me "speaking for God"

I asked for help, that is all I did, and I got help, so I guess there was something God could do.

I'm glad you got the help. I hoped you learned that yelling at God and calling Him names doesn't help you or anyone.

I was not asking for a sign and I don’t give a rip what the Bible says, it is not the Book I go by because it is thousands of years old so it no longer applies to the present age.

Testing to see if God is "worth His salt" is definitely asking after a sign.

The truth has no expiration date. If it was true a thousand years ago it is true today.

How do you think you know what God is doing?

He often tells men what He is doing - then those men write it down - in books.

How do you know how many trials I have endured and passed? You only met me a few days ago on a forum.

I never claimed to know anything about you.

But I do know that God gives us trials in order for us to learn and grow from the experience.

Because He loves us.

My whole life has been tests and I have passed them all so far.

That could be said of literally anyone - since we all have our trials.

God does not help us through the Holy Spirit; God helps us by sending Messengers.

He does both - as well as innumerable other things that we are not even aware of.

God has done that three times since Jesus walked the earth. I do not need what God sent 2000 years ago.

Agree to disagree.

Who is “we?”

Every single person who has lived - is living - and will ever live.

The entire human family of Adam.

You can only speak for yourself, not for me.

I am free to share my opinion about the needs of the human race.

I need no connection with God nor do I want it.

Oh - you just want to take advantage of His love for you.

The next thing you will say is that is why I don’t have a connection, but I already know that because that is a Baha’i belief.

I'd say it is because you are prideful.

Gimmie a break. I do not adhere to Christian beliefs. God has no conversations with ordinary people, only with His Messengers like Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Part of life is hearing other people's beliefs - even if you disagree with them.

For example - I don't believe that the Bab or Baha'u'llah were true messengers of God.

The scriptures also show many examples of God conversing with people who were not considered prophets or messengers.

Show me where I cursed God, and even if I did that would only gum up the works for a petty capricious God.

You claimed to have called God names - that is cursing Him.

And it makes you capricious - not God.

You acting in that manner causes you ill effects and desensitizes you to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

That God is not the God I believe in. The God I believe in is the one true God, not the imaginary God some Christians imagine exists and gets his feelings hurt by humans.

I have not at any time mocked the Baha'i faith or called your God "imaginary".

But I do understand that it is your pride that causes you to make stuff up about my beliefs and then mock them.

I never once said that God had hurt feelings. I always said that you were hurting yourself.

And you think you know what God gives us how?

I am merely relaying what the scriptures say. Much like how you have been quoting from your scriptures.

Oh I almost forgot, you have the Bible that was written by men who never even knew Jesus.

You don't need to have met Jesus to be a prophet or write down what is true.

And most of the New Testament writers did meet Jesus - either during His mortal ministry or after His Resurrection.

If God only gives people what they can handle why do so many people commit suicide?

Are you arguing that suicide was inevitable for those people?

I hear these same platitudes from other Baha’is; I don’t need to hear them from Christians.

If you don't want to talk to me then stop responding to my posts. There is no gun to your head.

Can you explain why atheists have more compassion than believers?

What is a "believer"? By what metric are you making this claim? How is compassion measured? What do you consider to be "compassion"?

No, that is not what that is and I do not believe that God is obligated to step in; I only said that in jest. I guess you could not figure that out.

Yeah - it's my fault that sarcasm or "jesting" isn't conveyed well in the written word.

I also call BS on this. I do not believe that you were jesting. You were tempting God. Seeking after a sign.

But it is only according to Christian and Baha’i scriptures that say God steps in, so don’t blame me for scriptures, as I would not have any expectations of God without those scriptures.

Yet those same scriptures explain that there are prerequisites - like humility - that one must follow before receiving divine intervention.

I believe that you have false expectations because you are ignorant of these things.

Aside from that, who are you to judge anyone?

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

This confirms your ignorance to me.

These verses do not say that we can never judge - only that with whatever judgment we use shall also be used to judge us.

So - if I judge someone unjustly - I will be judged unjustly.

However - if I am always fair and just in my judgments - I will receive fair and just judgment.

I am completely fine with being judged by the judgment I have used here.

If I ever start yelling at God and cursing Him - I would hope that the Lord would consider me being prideful.

Don't forget - I didn't come to you about all this. You were the one who put yourself out there with your OP and showcased your pride.

You have no one to blame but yourself - but you're prideful - so you won't do that.

What if I don’t want that? Why should I want that, just because you want it?

That is what prayer is. Talking with God.

If you don't want it - don't pray to Him.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I do not know what verses you are referring to but there is no 'logical reason' to think that Jesus actually said these things. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" does not mean what most Christians believe it means. That was written and applied only to when Christianity was the narrow way, when there were very few Christians in the first centuries, but Christianity is no longer the narrow way because about 30% of the world population is now Christians.

Some Christians say that only 'certain Christians' found the narrow way but that doesn't work because there is no reason to think certain Christians are right and others are wrong.

Given that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, Christianity is now "the wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Just as Christianity was the small gate and the narrow road that led to eternal life in the first centuries when there were few Christians, the Baha'i Faith is now the small gate and the narrow road that leads to eternal life in the first centuries since its inception. It's too bad Christians don't like that but nobody can change what an omnipotent God has ordained.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Many or most people do not believe in the Baha’i Faith because it is the new religion at the narrow gate. Below are the primary reasons why most people do not believe in a new religion.

The religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies. If they are irreligious they have become fatigued by the already established religions and thus just find it more annoying that a new one has popped up.

It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow the broad road that is easiest for them to travel.

You know, I never thought of the verse interpreted that way. Thank you for enlightening me.